Child thrown from Melbourne bridge

[MrBurns]

Some mothers deny access out of spite for a failed relationship. Some deny access because they think the children can't possibly survive without them. Some deny access because they can't stand the thought of spending even one night alone or without them.

With my ex it was a combination of the above.

There was never any reason why I should not have time with the kids and was awarded overnight time as soon as I got in front of a judge. But it costs, and that is where the system sucks. Why should I have to prove to a judge that I am a worthy father? The mother will make up many lies and rearrange facts at will to contest the thing. Egged on by lawyers, as you say.

This blokes crime is dispicable. But it will be of interest to me as to what has occurred at the Family Court.

The whole business is ridiculously expensive, it's a disgrace, the Govt should do something immediately, bit it's all vested interests and politics isnt it.

No doubt this bloke was done over by all concerned but there is no excuse for his actions, hopefully the full story will come out, the public have been traumatised by this they at least deserve to know the facts.

 

[Julia]

We are all outraged. His lawyer will say:
"No sane person could possibly do something like this to his own child".
Psychiatrists will testify that he was suffering a psychotic state at the time and cannot be considered responsible.
I'm not sure if we still have secure psychiatric facilities, but that's probably where he will end up.

And would his lawyer not in fact be right to suggest (and get psychiatric opinion in support) this person must have been insane?

And before anyone jumps on me for making excuses for a heinous act, I'm not doing any such thing. It just occurs to me that the situation is more complicated than perhaps first appears.

 

[MrBurns]

It doesnt matter what happened to him in Court or during the marriage failure , for him to do what he did shows a deep rooted weakness, selfishness and disregard for others that defies comprehension.

No amount of provocation could drive any normal person to do that.

 

[Absolutely]

It doesnt matter what happened to him in Court or during the marriage failure , for him to do what he did shows a deep rooted weakness, selfishness and disregard for others that defies comprehension.

No amount of provocation could drive any normal person to do that.

Agree totally.

 

[Happy]

From ABC, 30 Jan. 09

BRIDGE SAFETY QUESTIONED AFTER WEST GATE DEATH

Bridge safety is being questioned after a four-year-old girl was allegedly thrown off Melbourne's West Gate Bridge yesterday morning.
She was pulled from the river and flown to hospital but died later from her injuries.

Victorian Premier John Brumby says the State Government will do everything possible to speed up the implementation of further safety measures on the bridge.
"We're committed as a Government to putting in place the safety barriers on the bridge," he said.
"At the moment that work is scheduled to be completed when the $1.4 billion West Gate project is completed which is the end of next year."

A 35-year-old Hawthorn man has been charged with the girl's murder.
The Melbourne Magistrates Court was told the man was suffering from acute psychiatric distress and was suicidal.
He has been remanded in custody and will reappear in court in May.

In a meantime there will be -Darcey- safety barrier, so somebody else cannot do it this way.

When somebody then decides to drive 4WD off the bridge, safety barriers will be reinforced.

If somebody then tries to drive truck off the bridge, some other improved safety features will catch a jumbo jet.

I wander why not make death sentence punishment instead of all preventative beating about the bush including all the fancy medical conditions?


Yes I gather that bloke was upset, but that's not how you make statement.

 

[glenn_r]

They need to build a higher fence like the fence on the Gateway bridge in Brisbane, as a copper mate of mine tells me there is at least 1 suicide jump made off the Westgate each week.

Hopefully the hideous bas tard tops himself in remand and saves the mother a lot of anguish in court and of course a lot of tax payers money in keeping "it" safe and alive.

 

[MrBurns]

They need to build a higher fence like the fence on the Gateway bridge in Brisbane, as a copper mate of mine tells me there is at least 1 suicide jump made off the Westgate each week.

Hopefully the hideous bas tard tops himself in remand and saves the mother a lot of anguish in court and of course a lot of tax payers money in keeping "it" safe and alive.

One a week ? I was just wondering about that, if thats true, the State Govt are partly responsible for this, why on earth wouldn't they construct a fence to prevent suicides and this, I'm sure it's done elsewhere.

Unfortunately as I get older and perhaps wiser I hold the State Govt in increasing contempt for breathtaking incompetance on many levels.

 

[tigerboi]

Some mothers deny access out of spite for a failed relationship. Some deny access because they think the children can't possibly survive without them. Some deny access because they can't stand the thought of spending even one night alone or without them.

With my ex it was a combination of the above.

There was never any reason why I should not have time with the kids and was awarded overnight time as soon as I got in front of a judge. But it costs, and that is where the system sucks. Why should I have to prove to a judge that I am a worthy father? The mother will make up many lies and rearrange facts at will to contest the thing. Egged on by lawyers, as you say.

This blokes crime is dispicable. But it will be of interest to me as to what has occurred at the Family Court.

That is my interest as well...what was the trigger for what he did...

remember this...no woman goes to jail for denying court ordered access...NEVER...judges wont do it...tb

 

[cuttlefish]

Its such a tragic thing for anyone to have done. I just feel sick at the thought of what must have been going on in someone's head for them to do something like this, and sick at the thought of what must be going through their head now that they've done it. If it was premeditated it is an act of evil, but if it was a brain snap it just makes me feel sick.

If he had any integrity or set of morals prior to what he did, which by the comments from his lawyers it sounds like he did have, he will probably lose his mind as a result of what he has done, and probably be unaware of any sense of punishment that does occur. Anyone with a sense of morality that carried out an act like this would probably welcome capital punishment for it, I can't see how anybody could forgive themselves and go on living in any kind of sanity after doing something like this.

Why would a mother try to deny access to the father ?

Many women can be extremely nasty, spiteful and highly illogical - just like men - the world isn't full of balanced, healthy emotional beings - and mothers are equally capable of warped and irrational behaviour and capable of putting their ex-partners through the wringer just out of sheer spite and hatred.

I can't see any excuse or sanity behind what this guy has done but I can see the sorts of things that could potentially have contributed to the warped state of mind that caused this to occur if it was an emotional brain snap sort of event. Anyone feeling pressure to an extreme extent needs to let go of the situation and walk away from it, or they are at risk of losing it like this guy did.

What a horrible thing for the other kids to witness and experience as well and to have to live with - to lose their sister in this way, and have to grow up having the stigma and knowledge that they had a father that did a thing like this. Its just a terrible event.

 

[jersey10]

We are all outraged. His lawyer will say:
"No sane person could possibly do something like this to his own child".
Psychiatrists will testify that he was suffering a psychotic state at the time and cannot be considered responsible.
I'm not sure if we still have secure psychiatric facilities, but that's probably where he will end up.

And would his lawyer not in fact be right to suggest (and get psychiatric opinion in support) this person must have been insane?

And before anyone jumps on me for making excuses for a heinous act, I'm not doing any such thing. It just occurs to me that the situation is more complicated than perhaps first appears.

This post by Julia goes someway to answering my question earlier in the thread. So the next question is should it be irrelevant if a person is insane or not? If the answer is no then that is it, these crimes will continue and these threads will continue where people whinge about the punishment not fitting the crime. It must be the case that society is a better place if sanity or other such factors are taken into account before punishment is dished out. If this wasn't the case would the law not have been altered by now?

 

[Prospector]

Why would a mother try to deny access to the father ?

Why would the courts waste everones time and money allowing her to persue that if there were no compelling reason why the father should be denied access.

No doubt you paid her bill too, her Lawyer probably urged her on, they do that, it's good for business.

But can't you see that if the mother did fight for custody through the courts, given the outcome, she may have been very right to do so? Maybe she saw inklings?

I think if he was not insane before the act, he most likely is now.

 

[MrBurns]

But can't you see that if the mother did fight for custody through the courts, given the outcome, she may have been very right to do so? Maybe she saw inklings?
I think if he was not insane before the act, he most likely is now.

If she felt that way she should have had a restraining order out on him and he wouldn't have had the kids in his car, and if the ****ing State Govt had installed protection rails she may still be alive (excuse the French)

 

[IFocus]

Being a tree hugging, whale saving, left wing basket weaver I know capital punishment wont change anything.

But being a father I would happily be 1st in line to help throw the sicko of the bridge as there is no room or justice in our society for anyone committing such an abhorrent act.

Agree with Glenn be nice if he did us all and his family a favor........

RIP little girl

 

[Prospector]

If she felt that way she should have had a restraining order out on him and he wouldn't have had the kids in his car, and if the ****ing State Govt had installed protection rails she may still be alive (excuse the French)

Maybe she did have a restraining order on him but the court said he could have access for the night? Or maybe she applied for one and she was only able to talk about a gut feel and nothing concrete. We really need to get some facts before we know the story.

I dont think we can blame the state Government for this, unfortunately once someone makes up their mind to commit such acts then they will find the means.

 

[MrBurns]

Maybe she did have a restraining order on him but the court said he could have access for the night? I dont think we can blame the state Government for this, unfortunately once someone makes up their mind to commit such acts then they will find the means.

If there was a safety fence, this wouldnt have happened, not there anyway.
If it was a spur of the moment snap this would not have happened.

 

[glenn_r]

Similar story near Winchelsea a few years ago an estranged father had day access with his 3 young kids and on the way back to the mother he drove into a dam, drowning all 3 but he survived and is now in prison on 3 counts of murder, very sad.

 

[Prospector]

If there was a safety fence, this wouldnt have happened, not there anyway.
If it was a spur of the moment snap this would not have happened.

Mr Burns we cannot stop people from finding a way to do terrible things. The fence is a red herring. If he didnt do it then, he would have done it somewhere else. Maybe a hose in the car in a garage, maybe an overdose. Should we ban cars and hoses and garages then? The bridge is not the problem here.......

 

[2BAD4U]

This post by Julia goes someway to answering my question earlier in the thread. So the next question is should it be irrelevant if a person is insane or not? If the answer is no then that is it, these crimes will continue and these threads will continue where people whinge about the punishment not fitting the crime. It must be the case that society is a better place if sanity or other such factors are taken into account before punishment is dished out. If this wasn't the case would the law not have been altered by now?

IMO, the only time insanity should be used as a defense (not an excuse) is if it is pre-existing. If someone has a history of mental illness, reduced mental capacity, etc, then perhaps it does have a role to play in their defense.

But if you are perfectly "normal" up to that point and you snap, that's not insanity, temporary or otherwise. You snapped..........no defense, no excuse.

 

[GumbyLearner]

IMO, the only time insanity should be used as a defense (not an excuse) is if it is pre-existing. If someone has a history of mental illness, reduced mental capacity, etc, then perhaps it does have a role to play in their defense.

But if you are perfectly "normal" up to that point and you snap, that's not insanity, temporary or otherwise. You snapped..........no defense, no excuse.

What about the acts of women experiencing post-natal psychosis/depression?

 

[MrBurns]

Mr Burns we cannot stop people from finding a way to do terrible things. The fence is a red herring. If he didnt do it then, he would have done it somewhere else. Maybe a hose in the car in a garage, maybe an overdose. Should we ban cars and hoses and garages then? The bridge is not the problem here.......

If it was a snap decision it would have been prevented.