The Nanny State

[Julia]

We've recently experienced a case of moral panic regarding the Bill Henson photographs. You know the ones: seized by the police as being pornographic, and subsequently deemed not to be so at all.

And yesterday the AMA comes out with the ludicrous suggestion - amidst all the hysteria about binge drinking which has been going on for a while now, probably since climate change came off the media headlines - that four standard drinks, e.g. four midis of beer or four glasses of wine over a meal during an evening , constitutes binge drinking. Anyone who indulges thus will automatically be a candidate for physical and moral ruin.

And this evening, the AMA, bless their hearts has suggested that the way to stop people smoking is to ban any depiction of smoking in any art form such as films, plays etc. Their theory appears to be that any person gazing upon a screen image of a person smoking will immediately be upswept with the crazed urge to rush out and start smoking.

Now, obviously I'm completely opposed to the proliferation of pornography which involves the abuse of children and I object to smokers brushing their burning cigarettes against me as I walk down the street, but I'm just getting completely fed up with governments and organisations like the AMA treating us as though we have no personal sense of responsibility.

Binge drinking, I would have thought, is when people drink with the express intention of getting blind drunk, often to the point of physical collapse.
The government in their questionable wisdom are trying to introduce an extra tax on the alcopops products, telling us that this is what is going to eliminate binge drinking in teenagers. Really? It has already reduced consumption of these ready to drink products because the drinkers are simply turning to buying whole bottles of spirits and mixing their own, running the risk of each drink being considerably stronger than the premixed ones.

Another of Mr Rudd's thought bubbles which simply wasn't thought through?
Another gesture in order to be seen to be doing something?

I always think that most people behave pretty much as we expect them to, so if we tell people that they are too irresponsible to make wise choices for themselves, and interfere in their lives by banning and taxing indiscriminately, then chances are they will rebel and do those things anyway.

And I'll resist the urge to get started on censorship.

 

[wayneL]

Julia,

It seems to be a blight across the whole English speaking world. Here in the UK it's the same.

Eg All business vehicles (eg a work ute) must display 'no smoking' signs in the cabin. Even if you are a self employed gardiner and you are the only person who ever drives your ute!

There are bright spots however. The delightfully eccentric Boris Johnson, the new Mayor of London is bucking the trend.

Fantastic stuff IMO:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/06/17/do1701.xml

I came out of my house the other week and saw that it was a perfect day for cycling to work. The clouds were high and fleecy, the sky was blue, the road was dry.

Boris Johnson tries to evade the press
Boris Johnson makes his escape from the press in the days before he bought a cycle helmet

I hitched my rucksack, tucked my right trouser leg into my sock and was about to clamber aboard the King of the Road when I realised there was something terribly wrong with my appearance. I clapped my head. My helmet! I'd forgotten to wear the symbol of my new deference to correct thinking............

 

[2BAD4U]

On the binge drinking "definition" it was suggested in the media yesterday that it was a precursor to raising taxes. ie: more people are now binge drinking by the new definition, lets raise taxes to combat the problem. I would have to agree. It has also created a joke of binge drinking in that the definition is so absurd that no one will take it serious.

On the broader subject of being a nanny state, I once heard an overseas tourist describe Australia as a country of signs with "red circles with lines through them." That was about 15 years ago and I thought how sad it was then, but it is even worse now. The solution in my opinion is to start by making people responsible for their own actions and get away from this litigious society we have become. Do we really need warnings telling us not to use a hair dryer in the bath? If you do and you survive, why should your stupity give you the right to sue the manufacturer? If you don't survive, well that's just one less moron in the gene pool.

 

[saiter]

We've recently experienced a case of moral panic regarding the Bill Henson photographs. You know the ones: seized by the police as being pornographic, and subsequently deemed not to be so at all.

And yesterday the AMA comes out with the ludicrous suggestion - amidst all the hysteria about binge drinking which has been going on for a while now, probably since climate change came off the media headlines - that four standard drinks, e.g. four midis of beer or four glasses of wine over a meal during an evening , constitutes binge drinking. Anyone who indulges thus will automatically be a candidate for physical and moral ruin.

And this evening, the AMA, bless their hearts has suggested that the way to stop people smoking is to ban any depiction of smoking in any art form such as films, plays etc. Their theory appears to be that any person gazing upon a screen image of a person smoking will immediately be upswept with the crazed urge to rush out and start smoking.

Now, obviously I'm completely opposed to the proliferation of pornography which involves the abuse of children and I object to smokers brushing their burning cigarettes against me as I walk down the street, but I'm just getting completely fed up with governments and organisations like the AMA treating us as though we have no personal sense of responsibility.

Binge drinking, I would have thought, is when people drink with the express intention of getting blind drunk, often to the point of physical collapse.
The government in their questionable wisdom are trying to introduce an extra tax on the alcopops products, telling us that this is what is going to eliminate binge drinking in teenagers. Really? It has already reduced consumption of these ready to drink products because the drinkers are simply turning to buying whole bottles of spirits and mixing their own, running the risk of each drink being considerably stronger than the premixed ones.

Another of Mr Rudd's thought bubbles which simply wasn't thought through?
Another gesture in order to be seen to be doing something?

I always think that most people behave pretty much as we expect them to, so if we tell people that they are too irresponsible to make wise choices for themselves, and interfere in their lives by banning and taxing indiscriminately, then chances are they will rebel and do those things anyway.

And I'll resist the urge to get started on censorship.

Hi Julia,

I too find the idea of a nanny state distasteful. However, I think you can find the laws/actions committed by this government justifiable if you think of the effect on the wider community.
In relation to Ben Henson's art, I don't think Henson's intention was to create child pornography, but nevertheless, his art could become pornographic media to pedophiles. The government would have had to appease the parents & those strongly for child rights (the majority) or the art critics & lovers (the minority). If they had chosen to appease the minority then confidence in the government's morals would have dropped and that would be bad news for the Labor party. The alternative would have been to screen viewers of the art gallery but this would be too tedious and possibly discriminatory.
Binge drinking is another difficult problem that the government faced/is facing. Alcohol is a part of Australian culture and unfortunately, teenagers are choosing to amplify it even further and are probably going to keep doing so well into their adult life. By drinking to excess, they place an enormous strain on their livers, brains and other organs.
Eventually, they will require medical attention if they don't kill themselves and the responsibility will probably fall on the Nation's public health care systems. Can you imagine the costs involved for dialysis, transplants and care? These costs would far out weight the revenue being lost from alcopop sales. I agree that introducing the tax has only switched them to cheaper and more highly concentrated drinks, so something else needs to be done about this too.

 

[wayneL]

that four standard drinks, e.g. four midis of beer or four glasses of wine over a meal during an evening , constitutes binge drinking.

So that's 2 English pints.

Sheesh that barely touches the sides. A lot of the guys I have met here would view 5 pints in a sitting as a light night out... though must admit 2 pints is where I stop... well maybe 3...

 

[theasxgorilla]

So that's 2 English pints.

Sheesh that barely touches the sides. A lot of the guys I have met here would view 5 pints in a sitting as a light night out... though must admit 2 pints is where I stop... well maybe 3...

2 pints and I'm happy and satisfied. I don't know they do it in the British Isles...though widespead and accepted it seems like alcoholism to me.

 

[cuttlefish]

And it wasn't too long ago that the roads and traffic authority used to run adverts that would tell us we could have three drinks in the first hour and one every hour after that! So that would in theory mean that you could binge drink and drive lol.

 

[wayneL]

fwiw, the English definition of binge drinking:

This defines binge drinking as men having more than eight units and women having more than six units a day. Recommended limits are three to four units for men and two to three units for women a day, but not every day. Binge drinking for women would be more than three glasses of wine or six measures of spirit in a session. For men it would be four pints of ordinary strength beer or eight measures of spirit.

 

[Julia]

Thanks for responses. Good to know I'm not alone in feeling irritated.

Saiter, you make a good point. But it's pretty sad and doesn't say much for us as a society when political considerations (i.e. the government making sure it looks OK) take precedence over common sense.

Anyone completely on the side of all these regulations?

 

[Timmy]

I don't think we know how lucky we are ... if the state was run by my Nan smoking a pack a day would be made compulsory...

 

[MRC & Co]

That tax on 'alcopops' was absolutely rediculous!

As Julia stated, anybody could see youngsters were going to mix their own instead, which (from my own experience) does lead to FAR higher % drinks! One reason I moved accross to softer beers.

On another note, my father always used to tell me how much he despised 'binge drinkers' as two of my grandads (one a great grandad) loved several drinks a day. Have to say, both had a far happier life than my father with absolutely no drinking related problems. Makes me question, if you enjoy it and don't go around beating people up, what is so bad about drinking,even 'binge drinking'?

This 'binge drinking phenomenon' is not exactly a new thing in society. It has been around for thousands of years, look at the culture in Rome at the height of it's power, binge sessions and trips to the brothels were a common occurance. Look at the vikings and their feasts........not sure the Greeks were any different, or the Germanic tribes and Gaul who also loved their alcohol in excess from what I have read. Of course, only really available to those with the $$ to afford it, but still, it does not appear they only had 2-4 in a session!

Personally, drinking once a week is plenty for me, but I usually make a good effort of it. Usually have at least 12 beers

 

[alankew]

We were amazed at the rules that we have to abide by when we moved from the UK.No dive bombing at the public baths9thats what you are supposed to do when you are learning to dive!),no diving full stop,must wear a helmet if you are riding a bike(I know its for my safety but some of the helmets you see people wearing seems little point)-not only that but you cop a fine/warning if caught without.20 years of driving in the UK on some pretty busy roads with only one speeding fine yet within 6 months of living here me and my wife(no tickets previously)had copped 6 between us.Got so bad that my wife was scared to drive for fear of being banned.Could go on but will only be called a whinging Pom but never has a nations catchphrase being so inept.NO WORRIES.And the one rule that really gets on my nerves,the 100 character rule!

 

[stockGURU]

More than almost any other nationality on Earth, Aussies love being told by the government how to live their lives and what freedoms they are allowed to enjoy and which they aren't. We will literally take anything that the government (in their infinite wisdom) dishes out and lie down like dogs and beg for more.

IMO this is a hangover from cradle to grave socialism that has been a integral part of the Australian mindset up until recent times.

If a dictatorship ever comes to a first world western country, it will come to Australia first. Aussies wont fight against the government controlling every aspect of their lives. We are used to it and expect it. I think, as a nation, we are addicted to it and need it.

The apathetic nature of Australians is legendary. We couldn't give a stuff about freedom or individual rights as long as we can buy a Commodore, have a BBQ and go to the beach.

Australians need a nanny state. It's our security blanket.

 

[nioka]

More than almost any other nationality on Earth, Aussies love being told by the government how to live their lives and what freedoms they are allowed to enjoy and which they aren't. We will literally take anything that the government (in their infinite wisdom) dishes out and lie down like dogs and beg for more.

IMO this is a hangover from cradle to grave socialism that has been a integral part of the Australian mindset up until recent times.

If a dictatorship ever comes to a first world western country, it will come to Australia first. Aussies wont fight against the government controlling every aspect of their lives. We are used to it and expect it. I think, as a nation, we are addicted to it and need it.

The apathetic nature of Australians is legendary. We couldn't give a stuff about freedom or individual rights as long as we can buy a Commodore, have a BBQ and go to the beach.

Australians need a nanny state. It's our security blanket.

And I always thought it was a hangover from our British colonial heritage. Maybe you are right. Maybe we are too used to being policed as a hangover from the convict times. But then it was one of the Queen's men, Johnny H, who disarmed the population to make the "powers" less vunerable.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Good post there stockguru..

Is not the whole system `designed` to keep the majority in a working class consciousness.I mean if one has a certain amount of money they become freer.We can`t have too many breaking out so restrictions through taxation on overtime, capital gains and goods/services are cleverly weighted and adjusted to keep us jumping through the hoop.

 

[disarray]

We will literally take anything that the government (in their infinite wisdom) dishes out and lie down like dogs and beg for more.

Aussies wont fight against the government controlling every aspect of their lives. We are used to it and expect it. I think, as a nation, we are addicted to it and need it.

i think thats a bit harsh. it's really tied into your next point.

The apathetic nature of Australians is legendary. We couldn't give a stuff about freedom or individual rights as long as we can buy a Commodore, have a BBQ and go to the beach.

well thats a pretty good standard of living. we have a nice, stable, reasonably prosperous nation so there's not much to be radical about is there? most of the world is much much worse than us and i think its a testament to our national character that we've maintained our (eroding) egalitarian nature for so long. we have nowhere near the crass excesses of america or nobility, and our worst off still have access to first world standards of food, health care and education.

seriously once you see lepers lying in the gutter and smallpox victims blundering around blind and tribes of kids sleeping in doorways and scrounging garbage for their next meal you really appreciate just how good our society is. there is no need for society to rail against anything because we have it good.

it all comes back to human nature man. when people are fed and entertained they are happy and easily led, especially if its to more food and entertainment. the people get fat, lazy and are content - compliance is just a side effect. but when people are lean and hungry then thats when humans true nature becomes evident, all pretence of civility falls away and we become animals again.

talking about a dictator etc. i honestly believe the world is going to cave in my lifetime. the population is going from 6 to 9 billion over the next 40 years. already we have food shortages, water shortages, climate change,epidemics of disease outside the first world and declining resources to support development based on current technology. unless the boffins take us to the next tech level soon there is just no way the planet can support 9 billion of us.

the nanny state will become irrelevant.

 

[Rafa]

One of my biggest concerns of voting labor was the further entrenchment of the nanny state model for adults.

The issue goes further than just nannying.... but goes to the core of the whole welfare state principle, esp for those who are capable (or should be capable) of looking after themselves.

In a way, we where heading down that path anyway under the howard govt with the middle class welfare system firmly entrenched (very disappointing coming from a liberal govt)… At least now some welfare has a means test associated with it….

There is a role for a nanny state…. And that is for those who can’t look after themselves…. That is children, and the poor and disadvantaged. Children need to be protected (or nannied) till they are capable of looking after themselves (and the legal age for that is 18 years)… And the poor and disadvantage need to be assisted with the basics, food, shelter, education, health care.

THAT SHOULD BE THE LIMIT TO ANY NANNYING.


As for Henson, he exploited a child in the name of art for his own fame and benefit…. Not of that of the child…. He is not a paedophile, and the art wasn't pornographic, but it was still exploitation of a child.

And as for alcopops… it has nothing to do with nannying… everything to do with revenue raising. And that is why govt's generally love nannying... gives them a excuse to raise revenue and get involved in the lives of people who should be making the decisions themselves...

The legal fraternity has a lot to answer for too, esp with the whole duty of care business....

 

[stockGURU]

More nanny state madness. This time from Queensland:

Toy guns will have to be licensed in Queensland under new firearms laws

ANY ITEM that looks like a gun will have to be licensed under several changes to the Weapons Act being considered by the Queensland State Government.

Even guns made out of materials as unlikely as soap or plastic may have to be kept under lock and key if they could "reasonably be taken to be a weapon".

The draft act says an imitation is a "reasonable copy" of a weapon that is not capable of causing death or injury.

"If it looks like a gun and feels like a gun, it will have to be licensed," said a government source.

"We just want to know where they are."

More: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...ew-firearms-laws/story-e6frfku0-1225900889228

 

[nunthewiser]

More nanny state madness. This time from Queensland:



More: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...ew-firearms-laws/story-e6frfku0-1225900889228

LOL potatoe Guns and Gings next i heard.

 

[Surly]

Many of the hold ups here are reported as being armed with a screw driver or syringe.

This is going to make things tricky for mechanics and diabetics everywhere when authorities work this out.

cheers
Surly