FFR - Firefly Resources

[Whiskers]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

I accept defeat, the general view from all mods is that I am incorrect and have mislead, thats kewl, I can accept this.

Can a mod explain what share options are then?

Just google "share options". Why is there such a term if they don't exist?

STC it's the legal meaning you need.

The meaning of 'share. and 'option' are as under the heading of 'meanings of terms' or 'definitions' in the relevant act (law). The following from ASIC should help.

REGULATORY GUIDE 5

Relevant interests in
unissued share capital
Chapter 6 ”” Acquisition of shares (Part 6.1)
Issued 6/6/1991

From 5 July 2007, this document may be referred to as Regulatory Guide 5 (RG 5) or Practice Note 5 (PN 5). Paragraphs in this document may be referred to by their regulatory guide number (e.g. RG 5.1) or their practice note number (e.g. PN 5.1).

Purpose
This guide is issued for the guidance of persons involved in share acquisitions and their advisers. It corresponds with and replaces NCSC Release 310.

RG 5.1 Question:

(a) Does an option to subscribe for an unissued share constitute a relevant interest in that share?

(b) If not, does the exercise of such an option or exercise of the right to convert a convertible note constitute an acquisition of the share then allotted?

Example:

A company issues options to a person to take up shares which upon allotment will represent more than 20% of issued share capital, and that option is exercised.

Answer:(a) no and (b) yes, for the following reasons.

RG 5.2 Under s30 and 31 of the Corporations Law, where a person has power to exercise or to control the exercise of the right to vote, or power to dispose or to exercise control over the disposal of, a share whether or not it is a voting share, then that person has a relevant interest in the share. “Voting share” is defined by s9 as “an issued share”. While an option to have a share allotted could be described as a power to control the future disposal of that share, this definition and the references in s34 to options over and rights in respect of issued shares clearly indicate that a relevant interest for the purposes of the legislation cannot exist in an unissued share.

RG 5.3 It is also inconsistent with Ch 6 as a whole to apply the concept of “relevant interest” to unissued shares: s615 restricts acquisitions of shares only to the extent that entitlements to voting shares are affected, and the acquisition of options over unissued shares and other rights in relation to unissued shares, such as convertible notes, appears to be regulated solely by s703 and disclosure in accordance with cl 8 in Part A of s750.

RG 5.4 References to “unissued shares” are a convenient and pardonable abuse of language, but it should not be supposed that unissued shares exist, any more than do void contracts, repealed Acts or mares’ nests. Shares are created at the time they are issued: Re VGM Holdings Ltd [1942] 1 All ER 224.

RG 5.5 Where a person is allotted shares in a company by reason of his exercising an option or converting a note, the person has entered into a transaction within the meaning of s64(b). He accordingly acquires a relevant interest in those shares within the meaning of s51 at the time of the allotment. In the example given, the acquisition would contravene s615.

RG 5.6 Section 627 provides a limited exception from the application of s615 to the exercise of rights to have shares allotted. An offeror who acquires options on market during the course of a takeover scheme or takeover announcement may exercise those options without contravention of s615 if s620(1) or 620(2) would have applied to an acquisition of the shares at the time of the acquisition of the options.

http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/pdflib.nsf/LookupByFileName/pn5.pdf/$file/pn5.pdf

 

[krisbarry]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Thanks for the post whiskers, but its time I keep my opinons to myself for a while, been burnt badly this weekend with 14 infraction points. So again don't listen to a word I say as I know nothing about share trading.

 

[dogwithflees1983]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Right peoples:, lets get back to talking about BMY and what great upside the stock has to offer!

 

[wayneL]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

STC it's the legal meaning you need.

The meaning of 'share. and 'option' are as under the heading of 'meanings of terms' or 'definitions' in the relevant act (law). The following from ASIC should help.

Not relevant whiskers. Don't be fooled by jargon.

An option may be an *interest* in a share, but it is not a share until it is *exercised*. In the case of company options the share does not exist until it is exercised.

If the option is not exercised at expiry the share will never exist.

An option is not a share - full stop.

 

[krisbarry]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Right peoples:, lets get back to talking about BMY and what great upside the stock has to offer!

Sounds great, can you give investors a little more information than one line.

what makes BMY have great upside?

 

[bvbfan]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

No such thing as a free share or option for that matter.

It dilutes existing shares value at the end of the day. Unless the share option expires worthless

 

[jtb]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

And in doing cease looking like an ass monkey.

Always so eloquent Doc:

I needed a laugh tonight and that was it.

As they say 'best to remain silent and be thought a fool.............'

 

[krisbarry]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

I certianly know the difference between a share and an option, always have, what I did though was to call an option a form of a share.

That was my mistake and I wear it, by the way how is your editing / formating skills? I see you were getting into all kinds of troubles, last month.

Calling somone a numnut is silly don't you think?

 

[krisbarry]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Always so eloquent Doc:

I needed a laugh tonight and that was it.

As they say 'best to remain silent and be thought a fool.............'

Interesting comment this one, The silent one never learns, they just sit back, its the fool that learns the most and I am very proud to be a vocal fool.

Here is an example, we look after international homestay students. The ones that learn how to speak, and understand English are the vocal ones. They make mistakes, the say foolish things etc. The ones that remain silent learn nothing and go back home with nothing. Which student are you?

 

[eclipse]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

I am taking a look into BMY, have just notice they have raised the cash needed for Iron Ore drilling. Need to do a little more research before I invest, but at this stage its market cap seems appealing, considering the location.

 

[tigerboi]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Brumby has completed 2nd phase drilling at frances furness where previous drilling showed some huge grades,so expect the results in the news next month sometime...tb

 

[eclipse]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

I have thrown myself into BMY at 15 cents today. Gold results may be up to 4 weeks away so I am happy to wait, in the meantime its a great chance to do some more research on the company.

 

[eclipse]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

There seems to be some ramping of BMY over at a few other stock discussion boards which bothers me somewhat. I always think that ramping a stock detracts from potential investors, not much I can do about that.

 

[eclipse]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Interesting to see the market depth today, the buy side increased rapidly with some large bids in place. The share price is starting to move up too. Current share price is 16 cents

 

[doctorj]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

There seems to be some ramping of BMY over at a few other stock discussion boards which bothers me somewhat.

I am fairly sure that if it actually bothered you as much as you claim here, you would stop doing it...

 

[tigerboi]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Yep been watching it the last 2 days,especially the free oppies going for nearly 6c,sorry last lot of 50,00 went at 7c,heads should be 22c then...so thats about a 40% discount on the heads over the oppies,strange as i was looking to get some oppies but not anywhere near even 3c,ago at $3.10 looks to have settled at that price.

Anyway my BMY is locked away at least til the oppies convert...

They are in between ago/bhp at pardoo so might have something to do with that...tb

 

[dogwithflees1983]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

anyone know why BMY has jumped up 25% this morning and on the back of no annoucements? A much welcomed suprise

 

[wipz]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

anyone know why BMY has jumped up 25% this morning and on the back of no annoucements? A much welcomed suprise

Hey doggie, probably speculation on the back of AGOs sudden rise over the last week.
As you know they are located right next door.

woof woof

 

[tigerboi]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Oppies are now at 8c so the heads should be 23c,reckon they are about to smoke big time.,cant wait for the frances furness grades...must be good..

so much for getting the free oppies at 1-2c......tb..

 

[SM Junkie]

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Brumby also got a quick mention on the Business channel last week, which has brought it onto the radar. I'm one that is starting to do some reasearch on it.