Did you suffer before doing well or vice versa?

[blaster]

Hi guys .
I have been trading for around 8 mths now full time . I was not on a good footing when I started financially - at all , due to leaving a former job which left me in that state so it was sink or swim and I decided to try swimming and trading as I'd always had an interest in it .
So this was started in the Bull market and I did very well , my account doubled within 4 mths or so .
I was well aware that things should come down and continued doing pretty well [ not as but pretty ] into this year ajusting to a more concervative approach and percentages in my trades.
Until I started making some really stupid moves, some panic selling and buying and with the maket so turbulent my reading seems to be off non stop. Accounts down 30% on principle and I am starting to wonder .
But- I also have huge faith in just what can be achieved on the stock market and have seen it many times over and done it myself but ofcause right now in my present state I am also wondering.
On one hand I have done very well and in not only the good times especially for a beginner but on the other , sh't seems to be hitting the fan right now and it has costed me more than I can afford .
So I wonder , how many go through this or have gone through it yet persisted and came good whatever - got worse , is it a common situation in your first 12 mths bla bla , have you persisted and turned the corner the wjhole bit youknow .
I'd really like to hear how it has been or was at the beginning or at times and what has eventuated for people here that do trade full time and depend on that income as their only income.
Personally I think it's a great job and you can be rewarded big time , I feel I should soldier on but if my account gets much lower I've lost too much which is really going to stuff things up but - good trades pick it up again just as quick so it's confusing .
Any thoughts or stories appreciated.
Cheers
Blaster
PS I realize people probably won't wanna discuss their hard times but - even if one reply it would be appreciated so if there is anything you'd like to say - or advice too actually of course , I could certainly use it right now . cheers

 

[dhukka]

How about putting things in paragraphs and then someone might actually read it.

 

[cuttlefish]

Something to remember blaster - if you start with a nominal $100 and lose 30% you're down to $70.

To get back up to $100 again you have to make $30 which is 43% of $70.

i.e. when you lose it you have to work twice as hard to get it back (have to make 43% profit to get back the 30% loss). That is why capital preservation and money management needs to be the highest priority.

Yep its not an easy market to work in at the moment - just look at LGL today for example! .

 

[peter2]

It's time that you review your trading performance. As you are running a business then you will have kept detailed records of all your trades. Look at them. Did you follow your plans? Rate your performance on every trade, be honest. If you have more crosses than ticks then it is obvious you will need to change what you are doing. The review will identify if you need to improve your entries or exits. How did you manage the risks, properly according to your plan or not?

If you don't have any plans or don't have a process to review all aspects of your business, then is it really a business? Hobbies are for fun, businesses must be profitable to survive.

Imagine if you had to show all details of your business to a business analyst (like dhukka). What would be their response to you? If this worries you then you know that things have to change. Find them and fix them.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Having a bad day?

 

[prawn_86]

Lots of problems in there Blaster.

1. Are you an investor or a trader? I will assume trader.
2. Starting off without enough capital as a trader will kill you.
3. As Peter mentioned, have you foolowed your plan? Did you have a plan? If not, why not?
4. Im a firm believer that you should not put $$ in you cannot afford to lose, especially when starting out.
5. Would you expect to excell in a normal new job after a few months?
6. Low capital means lower % returns.

A lot of things for you to consider, and im sure 'traders' could add a lot more

 

[blaster]

How about putting things in paragraphs and then someone might actually read it.

What so out of all this - all your worried about are pretty paragraghs, you must be doing well then that's forsure. Buy a painting !
Have a good one

 

[Trembling Hand]

Blaster you are not likely to get much more than the usual reply to these problems as you have given no details. Until you can list some problems this thread will be filled with the usual problem reply. They are all valid but you probably have heard them before.

You have 8 months of experience/results. You tell us what is the biggest problem for you at the moment is. Someone will be able to point you in the right direction.

What type of trading have you been doing to start off with?

Everyone who has traded has gone through draw-downs most have gone through a couple of blow-up. Ain't nothin new there.

 

[nioka]

Until I started making some really stupid moves, some panic selling and buying and with the maket so turbulent

Looks like you have answered your own questions.
1. Take a deep breath.
2. Think: TODAY is the FIRST DAY of the REST OF YOUR LIFE.
3. Examine your current financial position.
4. Assess your own capability.
5. Act according to your own judgement.

Best of luck. And remember you make your own luck.

 

[Snakey]

My tip as a trader. Stop trading. This is a very crap market for traders. Find something else to do that makes money for a while. Nearly impossible to make money in a market like this, but very very very easy to lose it. Come back when things are better. Dont trade till you have nothing. Its not worth it. I think every trader would say these are difficult times.

 

[blaster]

It's time that you review your trading performance. As you are running a business then you will have kept detailed records of all your trades. Look at them. Did you follow your plans? Rate your performance on every trade, be honest. If you have more crosses than ticks then it is obvious you will need to change what you are doing. The review will identify if you need to improve your entries or exits. How did you manage the risks, properly according to your plan or not?

If you don't have any plans or don't have a process to review all aspects of your business, then is it really a business? Hobbies are for fun, businesses must be profitable to survive.

Imagine if you had to show all details of your business to a business analyst (like dhukka). What would be their response to you? If this worries you then you know that things have to change. Find them and fix them.

Thanks very much Pete I really appreciate this .I know I have allot to learn .
In a fashion I have sort off - in my way , done what you are saying here a few times of late . But some I have just read and predicted totally wrong pure and simple . They've done opposite even when that looked impossible , a no brainer ! I realize that's happening allot this year but . Others are things I know I have done wrong and need to correct and am working on , learning curbs .

Must admit , one thing has come out of all my analisis is the old ordering or selling finger [ on that key board ] seems to be my worst enemy at the moment.
It certainly isn't a hobby , I can't afford one right now and my plan has been good but it seems you have to be disciplined and beyond when things get turbulent in this business especially green .
So I decided the safest bet was lower my percentages and only deal in the mega concervative stock that I know fairly well and have followed.
Next minute one of the no brainers pop up , I've deviated and done a dollar . Meanwhile the very stock I've had in mind and ordered but cancelled - comes in and even well under what I was willing to pay for it if only I'd waited which I spose happens to everyone but I do seem to be doing extra well in that area lately .

Cheers
Blaster

 

[prawn_86]

So in other words you have answered your own question.

You know what you are doing wrong, so you either need to fix it, or find another income source in these volatile times...

(My 1000th post. )

 

[Trembling Hand]

My tip as a trader. Stop trading. This is a very crap market for traders. Find something else to do that makes money for a while. Nearly impossible to make money in a market like this, but very very very easy to lose it. Come back when things are better. Dont trade till you have nothing. Its not worth it. I think every trader would say these are difficult times.

Your kidding?

All for capital preservation and not losing money when your cold but just because she's not going straight up doesnt mean its not a market to be traded. I consider this volatility the best of times.

 

[MRC & Co]

Yeh, as mentioned above, I think you need to give details of your trades.

What analysis are you basing your trading upon? What kind of trader are you? What is your base capital? My beleif is that to live on it, you need a VERY high base to start with. If you dont have one, go back to working at least part-time, that way you can supplement your trading profits. With my run lately, I am looking to do this myself.

Definately keep a trading log, sounds like your own psychology is a big issue! Work out what kind of trader you are (as far as psychology) and base your style and instrument you trade around that.

Full-time trading is NOT the flashy, fast paced lifestyle that its made out to be, as far as my experience doing it. Infact, I find I have to be a lot more conservative with my outlays, but at least I have freedom.

You need to really expand your post to include details, if you want feedback.

I personally, started out last financial year a LOT more seriously (though have dabbled since the age of 12), and had a pretty good year for the period I was trading. First part of this financial year I had a fantastic run, some of my trades were "gold" and my profits ran and ran until the trend turned. I was slow to pick the momentum shift and lost a lot of my initial profits (bad mistake from my experience so far). I found I really need trailing stops so when you make profits initially, you at least get to bank some of your profits and dont end up breaking even or slightly negative on the trade (which has happened to me on NUMEROUS occassions these past few weeks). I generally dont have a big problem with entry, its the exit that does me!

Hope at least some of this helps. Would be helpful if you could answer the questions.

Cheers

 

[blaster]

Blaster you are not likely to get much more than the usual reply to these problems as you have given no details. Until you can list some problems this thread will be filled with the usual problem reply. They are all valid but you probably have heard them before.

You have 8 months of experience/results. You tell us what is the biggest problem for you at the moment is. Someone will be able to point you in the right direction.

What type of trading have you been doing to start off with?

Everyone who has traded has gone through draw-downs most have gone through a couple of blow-up. Ain't nothin new there.

Thanks Trembling .

I know allot of you guys must have really been there - how do you know though to be or not to be - wait until the cuboard is totally bare or ?
I will get back and lay a few details out .

Speaking to one guy he'd gone from 50 grand down to two in his first year .
He says he thought well , I only had two grand left so what's it matter now and he kept trading , reckons even at that he felt he could still be a good trader. He climbed back to 4 and then 10 and eventually back to where he was and on. He reckons he finds it so easy now he feels guilty but it took him four years to get to where he is and his very comfortable - his words.
Cheers

 

[dhukka]

What so out of all this - all your worried about are pretty paragraghs, you must be doing well then that's forsure. Buy a painting !
Have a good one

Paragraphs aren't pretty, they're just normal a normal part of writing. I guarantee if you had written it out in paragraphs more people would read it and probably reply. Unfortunately that wouldn't necessarily mean any better quality responses. Often, sloppiness in one aspect of a person's life is indicative of their approach to other aspects.

BTW: A dictionary wouldn't go astray either.

 

[CATAPILLAR]

Paragraphs aren't pretty, they're just normal a normal part of writing. I guarantee if you had written it out in paragraphs more people would read it and probably reply. Unfortunately that wouldn't necessarily mean any better quality responses. Often, sloppiness in one aspect of a person's life is indicative of their approach to other aspects.

BTW: A dictionary wouldn't go astray either.

dhukka did you use to be a school teacher coz ya sound like one.

CATAPILLAR

 

[Tradestation]

When I first started trading, I followed techniques that I gathered from many books. These included 'new' guys like Guppy, Tate as well as older ones such as Gann and Larry Williams to name but a few. The system worked - for a while, then I lost all my money. I gave up trading in disgust and simply invested in the market every time I saved up some cash. But time has way of making one forget and the last few years I have been studying trading instead of actually trading. By using software (VB4 and Tradestation) and daily data from Norgate I have been able to test all of those techniques which are mechanical in nature on many stocks and futures.

So I might as well tell you the secret I found.......
I found that making a living out of trading over decades is next to impossible using mechanical systems. Yes some systems make money but when you look at the drawdowns and put that info into a montecarlo simulator the risk of ruin can be very high!
So be careful, very careful!

 

[IFocus]

Thanks Trembling .

I know allot of you guys must have really been there - how do you know though to be or not to be - wait until the cuboard is totally bare or ?
I will get back and lay a few details out .

Speaking to one guy he'd gone from 50 grand down to two in his first year .
He says he thought well , I only had two grand left so what's it matter now and he kept trading , reckons even at that he felt he could still be a good trader. He climbed back to 4 and then 10 and eventually back to where he was and on. He reckons he finds it so easy now he feels guilty but it took him four years to get to where he is and his very comfortable - his words.
Cheers

Blaster I only became reasonably consistent after 4 years up until then I had blow a number of $10K accounts, guru one second busted the next.

One of the factors that I believed played a significant part in becoming consistent.

Concentrated on a method and tested it manually to death. So I knew when it worked and when it wouldn't. There are lots of reasons for doing this least of all is proving the method.

I suspect the $50K guy has only traded a bull market, we are in a whole new ball game now......

 

[chops_a_must]

Your kidding?

All for capital preservation and not losing money when your cold but just because she's not going straight up doesnt mean its not a market to be traded. I consider this volatility the best of times.

The futures have been great lately... but stocks have been porcupine esque when it comes to entries by the looks...