Why are we saying 'sorry' to the aboriginals?!

[Joe Blow]

Would luv a moderator to check this posters IP address against other posters in this forum.
Sorry for the scepticism but 1 post makes you wounder.

I have checked IP's on several user names posting in this thread and have come up with no matches. There is no evidence of anyone using more than one user name in this thread.

 

[bunyip]

Well, on this one we both agree! I wonder also, how more rationale indigneous people feel about him.

With Nigel Mansell enthusiastically beating the drum for a billion dollars in compensation, I reckon even the more rational indigenous people who may doubt his aboriginality, will nevertheless feel very kindly disposed towards him indeed!

 

[moneymajix]

Sorry - how sweet those words can be!

Koori

I honestly believe saying sorry will mean absolutely nothing.

I am puzzled that anyone can say that.

Today's apology was symbolic in terms of race relations and Aboriginal growth in this country.

However, the focus of the apology was to the individuals that make up the stolen generation. The apology was accepted by this group with much grace and appreciation (if that is the correct word).

If you think today means nothing, then it seems you are discounting the feelings of a substantial part of your community.

Yes, lots of issues in the Aboriginal community need to be addressed.

Is there a chance you an appreciate the moment, as a measure of peace was brought to some, today?

Tomorrow, is another day, the challenges will be there to be met.

 

[disarray]

Would luv a moderator to check this posters IP address against other posters in this forum.
Sorry for the scepticism but 1 post makes you wounder.

omg an aboriginal is holding conservative views on the subject, quick check his IP!!

 

[2020hindsight]

I agree his speech was a disgrace.

Boy Am I in agreement with you there doc .
I mean to raise the issue of a young Aboriginal boy raping a child and drowning her in the process - in the middle of a speech on reconciliation!?! :bloated::topic:silly: :cwm10:

... and I'm totally in agreement with Keating for that matter :-

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/13/2161456.htm

Does Brendan Nelson have any idea what he's doing?! Has he no tact!? - I mean, he's pretending sympathy, but pursuing judgement.

IMO, He will be as idiotic a leader (and with the same chance of electoral success) as Mad Mark Latham was.

 

[2020hindsight]

........
Thanks ABC - and Canberra

 

[mikat]

i live in central australia, and see the worst conditions of how aboriginal people live. despite all the money, opportunities etc that aboriginal people here are given and squander, they still live in communities in abject poverty. that is in 2008. imagine how it was when the "stolen" generation was stolen

the government and agencies at the time did what they thought was best for the children. no different than today if a child is being neglected, black white or other. why are we saying sorry for helping the disadvantaged? some of these people who were "stolen" today live in society in well paying jobs in high power positions. where would they be today if they were left where they were? the answer is probably dead. even today children in communities are not fed or looked after and the government should step in and take them again.

as to compensation. what a load of ****. compensate them for giving them a future?

 

[vida]

The billions of dollars of taxpayers money has been squandered by past governments - e.g how much did Howard spend on advertising campaign for election and all his programs which was a big waste of money wasn't it Johnnie!! All that spending on ideological programs which Rudd is reversing - what a waste of money that was, and now I would like to see tax payers billiions spent well for a change and hopefully the Rudd govt will show us how

Not if sorry in the future is seen as an admission of guilt with legal ramifications that could cost the Australian taxpayer billions....then it will be concluded that Howard was right. Time will tell

 

[Scuba]

Why is it, that there seem to be so many posts bemoaning an apology? Why so many posts, whinging about medical benefits and additional help to a populace who have such a dramatically reduced lifespan?
Why do these posters feel and express their need to point the finger of blame? Were they unloved? Is it a feeling they have that if they had been stolen they may have been loved? Were they beaten and emotionally neglected during their childhoods? Did any of these posters' parents have friends from another culture or, god forbid, a skin coloured a different way to theirs? Do they feel lonely, or part of something shared?

Do any of them wonder about the mindset (at the time) of Tasmania 1 2 3, Darfur, Auschwitz, Rwanda, Srebrenica, Jonestown, Uganda, Cambodia, Armenia?

Genocides in History, Ethnic cleansing?

Did even one of them post any constructive or concilliatory comment? Live and let live FFS!

 

[2020hindsight]

The billions of dollars of taxpayers money has been squandered by past governments - e.g how much did Howard spend on advertising campaign for election and all his programs which was a big waste of money wasn't it Johnnie!!

bludy good point vida

close on $150 mill ($200 mill?) on advertising

Tasmania just spent $5 million to resolve all 100 Tasmanian stolen generation cases!

do the math - see who is the sick pathetic bs artist.

Howard's 11 years are thankfully behind us.

I just hope that the bigotry takes less than 11 years to be exorcised from the youth who have only heard his "Gospel according to Little Johnnie"

 

[Julia]

I agree his speech was a disgrace.

Clearly the Liberal party understands that a large number of Australians like to be seen to be saying the right kinds of of things but underneath resent what they see preferential treatment being given to Aboriginals.

The Liberal party were happy to sacrifice Brendan Nelson's reputation in the hope of winning the votes of these people a little ways down the track.

This is all Howard politics at play. Divide and conquer. Just not quite as elegant as we are used to.

Doc, could you say why you feel Dr Nelson's speech was "a disgrace".
I didn't hear all of it, but the part I did hear was a description of a child being taken away on a truck/ute. He was relating this story in quite an emotional way and seemed to me to be quite affected by it.

He did go on to describe some of the recent abuses amongst the aboriginal communities which I felt was out of place and inappropriate given the spirit of the day, but I felt this had to be seen in the context of the difficult tightrope he had to walk in terms of representing his constituency, and his party members, many of whom were against any apology being made at all.
From a purely pragmatic point of view, he did have to appease those people with his comments as he is their representative, as well as expressing his own personal point of view, so I don't envy him his challenge.

Overall, I felt he did reasonably well, but it would have been much more well received had he felt disposed to omit any references to abuses.

His efforts did not deserve the very discourteous response from the two Rudd staff members who I understand have subsequently been instructed by their Leader to write a letter of apology to Dr Nelson.

I don't much like Dr Nelson, but do feel insufficient recognition is being given to the difficulty of his task today. Bear in mind, too, that he had only a few minutes' notice that he would have the opportunity to respond to an unscripted comment of bipartisanship from Mr Rudd.

For me, the picture which I will try to hold on to was that of Mr Rudd and Dr Nelson, smiling together in the Chamber. Don't expect that will ever be repeated!

 

[Seaking]

Nigel Mansell (who calls himself an aboriginal but has blue eyes and blond hair (now gone grey) and is damn near as white as I am) is already beating the drum for one billion dollars in compensation. Maybe that was what they meant by 'move forward'......the sorry message gives them their cue to move forward towards further handouts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Mansell

I think his name is Michael Mansell..

 

[2020hindsight]

There's no way any racing car driver is going to get one cent of my hard earned!!

 

[rederob]

i live in central australia, and see the worst conditions of how aboriginal people live. despite all the money, opportunities etc that aboriginal people here are given and squander, they still live in communities in abject poverty. that is in 2008. imagine how it was when the "stolen" generation was stolen

Although it's nothing to do with "sorry", would you care to elaborate on "all the money, opportunities"?
The data shows that aborigines have average incomes half that of non-indigenous people.
The data shows that in every field of information collectable, they have access to fewer opportunities and, accordingly, participate at lower levels.
The myths that ignoramuses perpetuate as givens or facts are stunning, and reflect their mindsets.

Some elementary facts:
The former Coalition government was aware of data that showed health, abuse and criminal justice issues were increasing in severity under their watch. Their eleventh hour response was an "intervention" strategy.
Their earlier response was a "mutual obligation" program.
Before that their response was to "mainstream" service delivery to aborigines, that is, treating them the same as everyone else.
And before that was a masterfully executed strategy that "criminalised" Geoff Clarke and gave cause to eliminate "elected" indigenous representatives and disband ATSIC.

The "black arm-band" tag line was Howard's code for anyone that disagreed with his ill-informed, neglectful, poorly executed and divisive strategies to help aborigines.

Although Howard expressed a "regret" over the stolen generation, his view was that this generation was not responsible. Perhaps we should be clear here. He only meant that the most recent generations (X and Y) were not responsible. Howard's generation not only continued the legalised practices of forcible removal, they perfected it.

As for an earlier post by "Koori" on this thread, if he is fair dinkum he will know well and first hand some members of the stolen generation. If he had a sense of brotherhood (or "mob") he would have known the hurt and suffering experienced by a majority of the stolen generation and regularly expressed by indigenous artists and musicians, such a Archie Roach.

The "sorry" might not be for Koori, or Bunyip, or superfly, but it was for those who have felt the hurt, or felt the need for a healing.

I listen to much of the parliamentary debate today and it is clear that many on the right of politics just don't get it when it comes to aboriginal affairs. Not surprisingly, the data shows they never really wanted to in the first place.

Declare 13 February as the "new Australia Day" and let's move on....

 

[doctorj]

Doc, could you say why you feel Dr Nelson's speech was "a disgrace".

His speech was more about politicing and winning votes for the libs and detracted from the day.

Today wasn't about blame, it was about a fresh start. His speech was full of excuses for what happened. Here are some of my (least) favourite parts:

We do know though that language, disease, ignorance, good intentions, basic human prejudices, and a cultural and technological chasm combined to deliver a harshness exceeded only by the land over which each sought to prevail.

Though disputed in motive and detail and with varying recollections of events by others, the removal of Aboriginal children began.

Our generation does not own these actions, nor should it feel guilt for what was done in many, but not all cases, with the best of intentions.

Even when motivated by inherent humanity and decency to reach out to the dispossessed in extreme adversity, our actions can have unintended outcomes. As such, many decent Australians are hurt by accusations of theft in relation to their good intentions.

Yet state governments responsible for delivering services and security resist the extension of a Northern Territory-style intervention.

Now, I'm not saying whether or not I believe any, or all, of the above is true. All I'm saying is that today wasn't the day for it. Today was a day for saying sorry.

 

[bunyip]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Mansell

I think his name is Michael Mansell..

OK - Michael Mansell. No matter, you know who I'm talking about. He had a real glint in his eye when he was on TV this morning talking about that 1 billion dollars.

 

[chops_a_must]

There's no way any racing car driver is going to get one cent of my hard earned!!

I remember his spins in the 89 Adelaide Grand Prix, and his last ditch attempted move in 90 on Nelson Piquet. Murray Walker used to call him el lione. Ahh... good times...

 

[2020hindsight]

His speech was more about politicing and winning votes for the libs and detracted from the day.

Today wasn't about blame, it was about a fresh start. His speech was full of excuses for what happened. Here are some of my (least) favourite parts:

Now, I'm not saying whether or not I believe any, or all, of the above is true. All I'm saying is that today wasn't the day for it. Today was a day for saying sorry.

Absolutely today was not about recent sexual abuse - totally irrelevant.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...y-speech/2008/02/13/1202760366050.html?page=4

This was the one where I turned my back on the insenstive idiot ...

The Alice Springs Crown Prosecutor Nanette Rogers with great courage revealed to the nation in 2006 the case of a four-year-old girl drowned while being raped by a teenager who had been sniffing petrol.

Also this (which I notice caused many Ab guests to "turn off" / lose interest in his speech)
btw, there were 60K Aussies (total) died in WWI, and 27K in WWII etc - so obviously 100K is total of all fallen Aussies in all wars.

In offering this apology, let us not create one injustice in our attempt to address another.

Let no one forget that they sent their sons to war, shaping our identity and place in the world. One hundred thousand in two wars alone gave their lives in our name and our uniform, lying forever in distant lands; silent witnesses to the future they have given us. Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australians lie alongside one another.

These generations considered their responsibilities to their country and one another more important than their rights.

ridiculous to draw parallels to war when trying (as he allegedly was) to say sorry to the stolen generation (imo)

PS The only relevance here is the fact that whilst some fathers were serving overseas, their children were taken back home!

 

[bunyip]

hi bunyip,

did you say that right? one billion?

thanks

That's correct....one billion dollars, or one thousand million dollars, whichever you prefer.
And don't be surprised if they get it. Won't be immediately, might take many years of pressuring the government, but I won't be in any way surprised if Rudd caves in sooner or later and gives them what they want.

That Kiwi bloke who earlier in this thread talked about 'you gullible Aussies'....he was right. We're gullible all right, if we thought the sorry message was leading anywhere other than a massive compensation claim.

 

[Brujo]

The data shows that aborigines have average incomes half that of non-indigenous people.
The data shows that in every field of information collectable, they have access to fewer opportunities and, accordingly, participate at lower levels.
The myths that ignoramuses perpetuate as givens or facts are stunning, and reflect their mindsets.

Some elementary facts:
And before that was a masterfully executed strategy that "criminalised" Geoff Clarke and gave cause to eliminate "elected" indigenous representatives and disband ATSIC.


I listen to much of the parliamentary debate today and it is clear that many on the right of politics just don't get it when it comes to aboriginal affairs. Not surprisingly, the data shows they never really wanted to in the first place.

Declare 13 February as the "new Australia Day" and let's move on....

What a load of rubbish.

Half the average income? What's your source?

"Sorry"? It's always going to be about monetary compensation. Nothing else.

Lawyers are going to make millions out of this. Courtesy of the taxpayers. The indigenous plaintiffs certainly won't have to fund any legal action.

Why does Michael Mansell pay more attention to his 1/8th or so indigenous background than whatever the other 7/8th's is? I'm darker than him without a tan!!!

Feb 13 the new Aust day? What a load of bullsh*t. Pandering to the minority again.