Japanese Whaling?

[numbercruncher]

Japan has apparently agreed not to kill humpback whales during its current Antarctic hunt, the US ambassador to Tokyo said on Wednesday, a move that could help ease criticism of its controversial whaling program.

Japan has long resisted pressure to stop what it calls scientific whaling, insisting that whaling is a cherished cultural tradition.

Well thankfully we seem to have got one concession and they are leaving the Humpbacks alone ...

Whats this though with the shift from "Scientific" to "Cultural" tradition ?

Did the ancient Japanese sail down to antarctica hundreds and/or thousands of years ago to smoke themselves some whales ? I think not, what a farce.

Maybe the best way to show dissapproval is to simply not buy anything made in Japan, if it hits their GDP im certain youll see some change in " Cultural Traditions" !

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Japanese Whaling !

...something like

a)

b)

c) :samurai: :screwy:...

 

[vishalt]

Re: Japanese Whaling !

Why be such cultural imperialists for?

 

[chops_a_must]

Re: Japanese Whaling !

Why be such cultural imperialists for?

How do you feel when the Muslim community tells you (us) that women should not show their face in public? --> We say piss off, we'll live the way we want, so let the Japs do what they want?

ps their GDP is already pretty bad, 1.3% annual growth ... stellar truly.

The difference is a) Muslims say that from their own countries, and b) if not, we tell them that's not the way it's done.

The oceans aren't owned by the Japanese. If anything, WWII should of proved to them they have no cultural prowess when it comes to naval conflict. Sheesh, there is something really wrong with Japanese culture.

P.S. - it was only really post WWII that the Japanese started hunting whales in large numbers. I don't call that a strong cultural link. Hence the lack of reaction to the Norwegians and Inuits with their whale things.

 

[vishalt]

Re: Japanese Whaling !

The difference is a) Muslims say that from their own countries, and b) if not, we tell them that's not the way it's done.

Wrong.

It's been common in the news and every so often you will here a Muslim sheikh saying that women should be covered and/or everyone should switch to Islam.

And on your point b - it's exactly what the Jap's say? "We're doing it for scientific purposes." (in other words you won't get in our way)

The oceans aren't owned by the Japanese. If anything, WWII should of proved to them they have no cultural prowess

So then who is the Ocean owned by? It's for everyone to share, the Japs simply feel its their right to kill whales, just like how beach girls in Western countries feel its their right to swim in it with bikinis while Muslims look down upon it?

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Japanese Whaling !

Garrett showing his green credentials

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/19/2123346.htm?section=justin

Opposition cautiously backs anti-whaling measures
Posted 2 hours 42 minutes ago
Updated 1 hour 34 minutes ago

Customs ship Oceanic Viking will shadow the Japanese fleet.

The Federal Opposition says the Government's new anti-whaling measures are responsible.

Australia will send a customs boat, Oceanic Viking, to the Southern Ocean to monitor the Japanese whaling fleet and put in place a range of diplomatic measures to step up pressure on Japan.

Federal Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson says he hopes Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has discussed the issue with his Japanese counterpart.

"Japan has been a key ally of Australia and a democracy since the end of World War II," he said.

"It is a very important relationship we have with Japan.

"Notwithstanding the fact that all of us in this country are quite appalled by continuing whaling activity that has been led by Japan."

The new measures have received a mixed reaction from environmentalists.

The Greens say the Federal Government's efforts fall short and are likely to fail.

Steve Shallhorn from Greenpeace has welcomed the Government's commitments but says they will still be confronting the Japanese fleet.

"Greenpeace will go down to the Southern Ocean and we will protect individual whales," he said.

Federal Environment Minister Peter Garrett says Japan can no longer claim that the killing of minke, humpback and fin whales is for scientific research.

"There are non-lethal ways of continuing and developing your research into whales," he said.

 

[chops_a_must]

Re: Japanese Whaling !

Wrong.

It's been common in the news and every so often you will here a Muslim sheikh saying that women should be covered and/or everyone should switch to Islam.

Yeah, and they get told to jump.

And on your point b - it's exactly what the Jap's say? "We're doing it for scientific purposes." (in other words you won't get in our way)

I don't think anyone would care if they stuck to their own waters, which, surprise surprise are massively over-fished.

So then who is the Ocean owned by? It's for everyone to share, the Japs simply feel its their right to kill whales, just like how beach girls in Western countries feel its their right to swim in it with bikinis while Muslims look down upon it?

No, it's not the same thing. They venture into our territorial waters to track whales. They dock in our ports. They are using our facilities to the detriment of our own economy. Bikini clad girls aren't sent out in force to bathe on Muslim beaches.

Then it's our right to sink Japanese ships in international waters, or their waters perhaps.

But hey, if you want to support pushing a species into the brink of extinction, go ahead. I just wouldn't expect anyone to support the Japs when their territorial waters are taken over by the Chinese in the near future...

 

[vishalt]

Re: Japanese Whaling !

No, it's not the same thing. They venture into our territorial waters to track whales. They dock in our ports.

Looks like that's fine by us, what does that tell you?

They are using our facilities to the detriment of our own economy.

I'm not sure if either of us will be accurate on this point but I thought they were paying us?

Then it's our right to sink Japanese ships in international waters, or their waters perhaps.

Yeah as much as its their right (how they feel it is) to kill Whales.

Of course we could sink their boats but you also have to remember that Japan is a vital player customer to Australian businesses (hello BHP and Rio), the world's richest people, the wealthiest tourist, the biggest total car exporter, the home of Nintendo/Sony, the world's second biggest economy and a military super power with the ability to crush most other countries, so sinking a Jap whaler would be quite consequential.

But hey, if you want to support pushing a species into the brink of extinction, go ahead. I just wouldn't expect anyone to support the Japs when their territorial waters are taken over by the Chinese in the near future...

Who said I support it? I don't, but I'm respectful enough to see it from a Japanese perspective as their right to do it, if that means the end of whales, fine by me.

ps the whole world seems to be allowing it due to this "loophole" - I don't think much better of either side!

 

[numbercruncher]

Re: Japanese Whaling !

Looks like that's fine by us, what does that tell you?

Im sure that wont be fine for too long under the Labor/Green coalition :

 

[chops_a_must]

Re: Japanese Whaling !

Who said I support it? I don't, but I'm respectful enough to see it from a Japanese perspective as their right to do it, if that means the end of whales, fine by me.

ROFL.

You say you don't support it, but then say that it's fine if that means the end of certain whale species. Fantastic.

I don't think a few ships docking in our ports would make up for the multi million, or billion, I forget now, whale tourism industry.

Just because Japan is a big economy, doesn't mean we should sell our soul because of it. Perhaps this is the reason Japan has shown total disregard for international calls over the years. Maybe it's time they swallowed a bit of that pride.

Obviously, I wasn't being serious about sinking whalers. Although I wouldn't object if they were found doing it in our waters. But you can see the absurd conclusion it reaches if everyone has a "screw you world and everything, it's my right" attitude on the high seas. A bit of common sense just has to prevail here...

 

[numbercruncher]

Re: Japanese Whaling !

Obviously, I wasn't being serious about sinking whalers. Although I wouldn't object if they were found doing it in our waters. But you can see the absurd conclusion it reaches if everyone has a "screw you world and everything, it's my right" attitude on the high seas. A bit of common sense just has to prevail here...

I'd party all night long if someone sank a Japanese whaling boat. My Granddaddy used to smoke Japanese criminals all day long out of a Catalina flying boat. Whalers are the same difference in my humble and perhaps slightly extreme opinion. (Humans are animals too)

 

[Ageo]

Im all about sustainable harvesting, if you can harvest a certain quota without harming the population then i dont see a problem. 1 thing i do disagree with thow is how they cannot kill them instantly and humanely. A cannon should be used instead of a harpoon to instantly kill the beast without putting it through so much pain and suffering.

Remember if they are roaming through our waters then its because the Aus government is letting them (a slice of the profits perhaps??)

 

[--B--]

1 thing i do disagree with thow is how they cannot kill them instantly and humanely. A cannon should be used instead of a harpoon to instantly kill the beast without putting it through so much pain and suffering.
)

do u have the same problem with, say, people fishing from a jetty? its not uncommon to see fish flapping about and bleeding and then sliced open while still alive..

 

[IFocus]

Re: Japanese Whaling !

I'd party all night long if someone sank a Japanese whaling boat. My Granddaddy used to smoke Japanese criminals all day long out of a Catalina flying boat. Whalers are the same difference in my humble and perhaps slightly extreme opinion. (Humans are animals too)

I am with you Numbercruncher few things anger me more than Japanese whaling, research how can they pretend what rubbish, trust them to keep it sustainable yeah right just like the tuna stocks completely screwed like all the other fishery’s they have destroyed.
If you every spend some time reading up you will soon see whales are beyond special, the cannons should be mounted on the customs ship going south to humanely dispatch the mongrel Japanese whaling fleet Grrrrrrrrr


Focus

 

[nioka]

Im all about sustainable harvesting, if you can harvest a certain quota without harming the population then i dont see a problem. 1 thing i do disagree with thow is how they cannot kill them instantly and humanely. A cannon should be used instead of a harpoon to instantly kill the beast without putting it through so much pain

The harpoon has an explosive head which usually kills the animal instantly. If it doesn't then a killer harpoon is iuusally used as a follow up. There are cases where things go wrong and these are the ones greenpeace keep showing. ( It is always the same one on the news).
Australia doesn't own the oceans. I doubt if the Japanese will whale in Australian waters. What happens if the Japanese send their navy to protect the Japanese commercial fleet? Do we send our Collins submarines after them?

 

[IFocus]

The harpoon has an explosive head which usually kills the animal instantly. If it doesn't then a killer harpoon is iuusally used as a follow up. There are cases where things go wrong and these are the ones greenpeace keep showing. ( It is always the same one on the news).
Australia doesn't own the oceans. I doubt if the Japanese will whale in Australian waters. What happens if the Japanese send their navy to protect the Japanese commercial fleet? Do we send our Collins submarines after them?

The whales almost certainly are not killed instantly and as for not standing up and saying this is wrong then maybe we should say to the generation that spend time as POW's to stop whinging we don’t want to offend Scheeeezzzzzz

 

[nioka]

The whales almost certainly are not killed instantly and as for not standing up and saying this is wrong then maybe we should say to the generation that spend time as POW's to stop whinging we don’t want to offend Scheeeezzzzzz

I've been there. I've worked there. Have you? I know how it works.

 

[--B--]

The whales almost certainly are not killed instantly and as for not standing up and saying this is wrong then maybe we should say to the generation that spend time as POW's to stop whinging we don’t want to offend Scheeeezzzzzz

are you equally opposed to (amateur) fishing where fish suffer needlessly and are often left to bleed to death?

 

[numbercruncher]

do u have the same problem with, say, people fishing from a jetty? its not uncommon to see fish flapping about and bleeding and then sliced open while still alive..

Whales are Intelligent mammals that use advanced concepts such as communication through song, the sperm whale brain is the largest brain to have ever evolved on the planet. It is about 9,000 cubic centimeters and weighs 7.8 kilos by comparison another mammal the human, has a brain that is 1300 grams and is about 1300 cubic centimeters.

Its just a shame they dont have technology so they can fight back

Fish simply dont even come close to these Mammals (but it is essential to have carefully controlled and monitored sustainable fishing), whats next let the Japanese start turning Dolphins into Sushi? Barbequed Gorilla burgers? Lion roast? Pygmy pie perhaps?

Save the Whales!

 

[IFocus]

I,ve been there. I've worked there. Have you. I know how it works.

No Nioka I haven’t worked in the industry but knew several people who work at Albany here in WA (last Australian station I think) and at the time I was pro whaling hassling the anti whaling protests jeering Jim Cairns etc in fact back then I was a bigger red neck than the whalers some say I haven’t changed.
But for the life of me I can see no point in whaling to me there is just some thing special about an animal that size.
I guess we will remain at either end of this discussion……

Focus