Show Saudi rape victim compassion: Clark

[Happy]

From AAP, 23 Nov. 07

SHOW SAUDI RAPE VICTIM COMPASSION: CLARK

New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark has urged Saudi Arabia to show compassion for a 19-year-old Saudi rape victim who has been sentenced to 200 lashes with a whip and six months in prison for being alone with an unrelated man.
The woman was gang-raped in 2006 by seven men who abducted her with her companion from a shopping mall. A Saudi court blamed her for being alone with a man who was not a relative.
Clark said that New Zealand fully respected Saudi Arabia's judicial system, but added: "Nonetheless, I hope that justice will prevail, and that the young woman, who is the victim in this case, will be shown leniency by the Saudi judiciary.

"I hope the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia will demonstrate benevolence and compassion in this case."
Clark said she had asked New Zealand diplomats in Riyadh to make representations to the relevant Saudi authorities and to work with like-minded embassies from other countries in raising concerns.
She said she was also concerned to ensure that the woman received appropriate legal assistance, given that her lawyer had his licence to practice revoked last week.
The Shi'ite woman was originally sentenced in October 2006 to 90 lashes. That sentence was increased to 200 lashes and six months in prison last week, and the seven rapists given increased sentences of two to nine years in jail.

Under Saudi Arabia's strict interpretation of Islamic Sharia law, women are not allowed in public in the company of men other than relatives.
Clark's statement noted that the Saudi government had recently taken some steps towards improving the situation of women, including establishing special courts to handle domestic-abuse cases, adopting a new labour law addressing the rights of working women and creating a human-rights commission.

Brought to you by AAP

No wander that some in influential positions talked about uncovered meat.

 

[2020hindsight]

No wander that some in influential positions talked about uncovered meat.

Happy
I think we've moved on (in Australia at least) from those days

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7189&highlight=mufti

"Extend [our] hand to you, you extend [your] hand to us.
"Give us a fair go, we'll give you a fair go and that's what we want."

but as far as the injustice to the lady in that article is concerned - I couldn't agree more - Sharia law leaves "Draconian" in it's dust.

Under Saudi Arabia's strict interpretation of Islamic Sharia law, women are not allowed in public in the company of men other than relatives.

 

[Flying Fish]

You can not interfer with another countries culture. Leave it be.

 

[Julia]

You can not interfer with another countries culture. Leave it be.

I actually agree with Flying Fish here, despite how obnoxious and thoroughly uncivilised the Saudi law appears to us.

If George Bush hadn't decided it was God's Will (his God, that is) that the Middle East should have democracy (no mention of oil of course) we wouldn't be in the godawful mess we are today in that region.

I don't think we'd take too kindly to someone from Saudi Arabia telling us how we should run our country.

When Helen Clark has cleaned up some of the horrific child abuse in New Zealand, then she will be perhaps in a position to be telling other countries how to manage their citizens.

 

[Wysiwyg]

With thought for the woman victim, it shows us the differences in freedom around the world.Australian whitey history is short but we (Australians) certainly have one of the freest? societies on this planet.

Just shows that being born on a particular plot of land can make a lot of difference to life experiences.

 

[Whiskers]

You can not interfer with another countries culture. Leave it be.

I have to disagree there FF.

Culture is just a behavioural pattern based on certain beliefs. Predjuice and racism are 'culture' on an individual level, domestic violence is a 'culture' on a family level and this is male choavinist, dictatorship culture in the quise of religion on a national scale. Just because they have done it for centuries doesn't make it right or tabo to change.

This is all about power and control for the select few... so called royalty. These are the last pockets of male choavanistic dictators trying to maintain there control in an age where most of the world has developed to a higher level of civilisation.

In the same way people often see rape as a sexual thing, instead of a power thing... the sex act is the effect of the power and control culture... this is the oppression of women in particular as an instrument of the ruling family's power and control. If the rest of the world chooses not to recognise their so called 'culture' eventually they will be forced to give it up just like apartheid in South Africa and equal rights for women and blacks in the west.

These days we have the United Nations and international conventions about human rights.

 

[2020hindsight]

If the rest of the world chooses not to recognise their so called 'culture' eventually they will be forced to give it up just like apartheid in South Africa and equal rights for women and blacks in the west.

These days we have the United Nations and international conventions about human rights.

UN also talking about the Hindu ritual of sati


http://www.un.org/News/briefings/docs/2006/061122_UNIFEM.doc.htm

Violence against women knows no boundaries, it knows no territory, no wealth level and it really occurs everywhere, in every country in the world today,” said Ms. Heyzer, in response to a reporter’s question about violence against women in the United States. While clarifying that UNIFEM’s mandate focuses on developing countries, Ms. Heyzer said the agency adhered to the standards and human rights norms of the United Nations as it looked at occurrences of gender-based violence around the world.

In response to a reporter’s question about why the Indian law making the Hindu ritual of sati illegal was not being enforced, Ms. Heyzer said monitoring and accountability systems were vital to making the best laws and policies work, especially at the local level. Sati is a ritual in which a woman immolates herself upon her husband’s death.

Just shows that being born on a particular plot of land can make a lot of difference to life experiences.

spot on - especially for the girls around here

 

[numbercruncher]

When Helen Clark has cleaned up some of the horrific child abuse in New Zealand, then she will be perhaps in a position to be telling other countries how to manage their citizens.

Rather big difference thou Julia is that NZ child abuse isnt government sanctioned, where as whipping this rape victim is government sanctioned ....

Least Clark has the balls to speak out against this horror, all the other scardy cats (inconvieniently) addicted to Saudi oil could learn something.

 

[Julia]

Rather big difference thou Julia is that NZ child abuse isnt government sanctioned, where as whipping this rape victim is government sanctioned ....

Yes, you're right, Numbercruncher. I guess I just feel more concerned for little children who are entirely defenceless than I do for adult women who as far as I know could live somewhere other than Saudi Arabia.

 

[Happy]

From ABC, 27 Nov. 07

SAUDI FM CRITICISES RAPE LASH JUDGEMENT


Saudi Arabia's Foreign Minister has distanced his Government from a court's decision to sentence a rape victim to 200 lashes.

The woman, who was gang-raped, was sentenced to the lashes plus six months in jail for the crime of being alone with an unrelated man at the time of the attack.

Prince Saud al-Faisal says "bad judgements" happen in legal systems.
The court ruling has sparked outrage from international human rights groups.

Hard to imagine, that they will have to change their law eventually.

Hope that meat preparation for consumption will not have to be done using barbaric slaughter, but this is another story.

 

[Happy]

From ABC, 29 Nov. 07

SAUDI JUDGES INSULTED ME, GANG RAPE VICTIM SAYS

A Saudi gang rape victim who was sentenced to six months in jail and 200 lashes was scolded by judges while police repeatedly dismissed her claims, she said in testimony published today.
The 19-year-old girl described the rape itself - including the fact that one of her attackers photographed her - and her struggle to eat or sleep in its immediate aftermath to the New York-based Human Rights Watch (HRW).
She was attacked at knifepoint by seven men after she was found in a car with a male companion who was not a relative, in breach of strict Saudi law, and was initially sentenced last year to 90 lashes for being with the man.
Following her appeal, the court ordered her punishment should be increased to the current sentence, a decision which has attracted wide international condemnation from human rights groups to the White House.
According to the testimony published in Britain's The Independent newspaper, once the girl's husband found out about the gang rape, he told the police and appealed for the rapists to be arrested, to which a police officer said: "You go find them and investigate."
The husband telephoned the police on four separate occasions before any action was taken.
Once in the courtroom, the girl, who has not been identified, was questioned repeatedly by the judges about the nature of her relationship with the man she had met with, and why she had left the house.
"They used to yell at me. They were insulting ... One judge told me I was a liar because I didn't remember the dates well," she said.
"They kept saying, 'Why did you leave the house? Why didn't you tell your husband?'"


SENTENCING

After the initial sentence of 90 lashes was announced in court, she was told by a judge that she "should thank God that you're not in prison".
Her husband told Human Rights Watch that after the first sentence, "It was like she was the criminal."
"When the judges passed down the sentence, I asked them, 'Don't you have any dignity?'"
The assailants' sentences were also toughened on appeal to between two and nine years.
Their sentences fell short of the death penalty - which could be imposed in a rape conviction - due to the "lack of witnesses" and the "absence of confessions" as required by Islam, the justice ministry said.
Also in the testimony to HRW, the girl said she had met with the man in the car because she "had a relationship with [him] ... on the phone" and was hoping to take back a photograph of her that she had given him.
They were stopped by another car and taken to a secluded area: "They took me to a dark place. Then two men came in. The first man with the knife raped me ... I tried to force them off but I couldn't."
After four of the men raped her, "The fifth took a photo of me like this. I tried to cover my face but they didn't let me."
Two more men then raped her, and after being informed the time was 1:00 am, she was then raped again by all seven men.
The group then took her home: "When I got out of the car, I couldn't even walk. I rang the doorbell and my mother opened the door. She said, 'You look tired'."
"I didn't eat for one week after that. Just water. I didn't tell anyone. I can't sleep without pills. I used to see their faces in my sleep," she said.
Saudi Arabia's justice ministry said on Saturday the woman had admitted having an extramarital affair with the man in the car.
HRW dismissed the ministry's claims, though, with Farida Deif, researcher in HRW's women's rights division, saying: "The Ministry of Justice's response to criticism of its unjust verdict has been appalling".
"First, they attempted to silence this young woman, and now they're trying to demonise her in the eyes of the Saudi public."
- AFP

In the shadow of this story I wander, how long does it take to start thinking like an Aussie, for all the people who come here and become permanent residents or citizens.

I also wander how many never change their way of thinking and behaving.

 

[kitehigh]

Yes, you're right, Numbercruncher. I guess I just feel more concerned for little children who are entirely defenceless than I do for adult women who as far as I know could live somewhere other than Saudi Arabia.

You see Julia this is where you don't know. Local woman in Saudi Arabia cannot just leave the country. If she is married and she is travelling alone she must have written permission from her husband to conduct that travel. If she isn't married than it is her father who can give her permission to travel. Local woman have few rights and basically live and die according to the males of the house that they live under. So for them to just decide that they will leave Saudi and go live in another country is total fantasy.

 

[2020hindsight]

than I do for adult women who as far as I know could live somewhere other than Saudi Arabia.

mmm I also (totally) disagree Julia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Without_My_Daughter
good movie this one...

plot :- After many years of marriage to an Iranian doctor named Moody (Alfred Molina), Betty (Sally Field) is convinced by him to visit his family in Tehran for the first time. Although she has a lot of trepidation about traveling to the Middle East, her fear of violence is overcome by sympathy for her husband, who misses his family. After Moody swears on the Koran that everything will be fine, Betty agrees to go. The happy couple set out with their young daughter, Mahtob, on a planned two week family vacation.

Immediately upon arrival, Betty is forced to wear the traditional black veil, and is nearly arrested for inadvertently exposing some of her hair. Contrary to everything Betty had previously been led to believe, her husband's family turn out to be fanatically devout and conservative Muslims, who are very unhappy with the prospect of an American in-law. Towards the end of their scheduled holiday, her husband reveals that he has been fired from his job in the United States and that he has decided the family will stay in Iran. Suddenly, she sees a completely different side of him. When she objects to staying, he beats her and takes her credit cards, money and identification. She soon realizes that she and her daughter had became prisoners in her sister-in-law's home. She manages to call her own mother in the U.S. who provides her with an Embassy contact, before her husband cuts off her access to the telephone.

Betty sneaks out of the house and gets to the Swiss Embassy, where she learns that under Iranian law women have no rights concerning the children; her daughter is considered an Iranian citizen and cannot be taken out of the country without Moody's signed permission
etc etc

 

[Julia]

Well, I wonder how it is that several times in recent years I have heard both Saudi and Iranian women being interviewed on Radio National who have left their home countries to pursue an education in the USA.

I'm not contradicting what you are saying necessarily but should we therefore assume that the women I have heard have had the blessing of their "superior male"?

 

[disarray]

You can not interfer with another countries culture. Leave it be.

yeah you can, its called globalisation. saudi arabia wants access to western money and technology and systems so we get to call them out when they behave like psychos.

only problem is we don't because we need their oil.

 

[kitehigh]

Well, I wonder how it is that several times in recent years I have heard both Saudi and Iranian women being interviewed on Radio National who have left their home countries to pursue an education in the USA.

I'm not contradicting what you are saying necessarily but should we therefore assume that the women I have heard have had the blessing of their "superior male"?

I am guessing that most of these woman would have come from well off families and been fortunate enough to be allowed to study overseas. Some of them probably have chosen to go against their family and remain overseas.

If you are interested in this topic you should read "Princess" .
http://www.amazon.com/Princess-Story-Behind-Saudi-Arabia/dp/0967673747

Its a good read and will give you a much better understanding of the situation for woman in Saudi.
I lived and work in Saudi Arabia and continue to work in the middle east so I have some first hand experiance on the going ons in these countries. Even in the UAE (which is suppose to be one of the more liberal muslim countries) a woman needs permission from her husband to work, get a drivers license etc.
My wife was not impressed to say the least, especially when they put down on her drivers license "Occupation = House wife".

 

[YOUNG_TRADER]

With thought for the woman victim, it shows us the differences in freedom around the world.Australian whitey history is short but we (Australians) certainly have one of the freest? societies on this planet.

Just shows that being born on a particular plot of land can make a lot of difference to life experiences.

LOL are you ****ing serious?

I'm no activist or humanitarian, hell I just read this thread because I've seen it for ages and never bothered,

But "Australian whitey history is short but we (Australians) certainly have one of the freest? societies on this planet." Tell that to the aborignies mate

Same goes for your "Just shows that being born on a particular plot of land can make a lot of difference to life experiences", I don't care where your born in Australia, if your aboriginal well I think most would admit your at a bit of a disadvantage

 

[Wysiwyg]

LOL are you ****ing serious?

Your bitterness toward Aboriginals is understandable and i hope you find a resolution to your problem.

If you have unfair treatment cases toward Aboriginals then you should report them to the authorities.

 

[YOUNG_TRADER]

Your bitterness toward Aboriginals is understandable and i hope you find a resolution to your problem.

If you have unfair treatment cases toward Aboriginals then you should report them to the authorities.

lol, you have completely misunderstood me,

I am not bitter towards the aboriginals, why on earth would I be?

You made a statement how free and blessed we are, I just pointed out that not all "AUSTRALIANS" have it as good as you say,

Also wtf does

Your bitterness toward Aboriginals is understandable

mean?

If you have unfair treatment cases toward Aboriginals then you should report them to the authorities.

Right better go report the Australian Govt then :

 

[2020hindsight]

:topic Speaking of Aus being free, or one of the free-est etc.
my mate Philippino was just saying that he and his wife both commented to each other that , despite all the rhetoric and namecalling - Aus is one of the few countries hey know where elections are peaceful. Back home he says, they call an election, and you start counting murder victims from then to the election. Heck even Italy, Spain etc, the polics tends to be really polarised etc .
And then there's the corruption which is much harder to discover and uncover in many of these countries than here. (not that we don't have any lol)

And of course Aussie women of all religions hopefully (?) have access to the police and/or courts and/or sensible law if they want to. Apart from the police and DoCS being overloaded, of course.

As for rape victims in Aus, I think (maybe someone can correct me) that women are being allowed to give evidence in camera in some cases, without having to face their attacker, to avoid the trauma of reliving the event etc.

btw, here's Kipling on the subject (written in a war setting) - not suggesting he was writing about this case - and I'm not promoting capital punishment - just the penalty to the raper in this case was a bit more severe, and the relative penalty , raperr to rapee was a bit more dramatic than a factor of 2 or 4 ( whatever) in the case underdiscussion in Saudi.

I understand incidentally that the men did score jail sentences ( I think I heard 2 or 3 years).

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=85547&highlight=kipling#post85547

RAPED AND REVENGED (an epitaph written in some wartime situation , who knows where)
Rudyard Kipling

One used and butchered me: another spied
Me broken - for which thing an hundred died.
So it was learned among the heathen hosts
How much a freeborn woman's favour costs.