Show Saudi rape victim compassion: Clark

[Sean K]

This is one of the more ludicrous things I've heard religion do.

'Teddy' teacher jailed for 15 days in Sudan
Friday Nov 30 05:34 AEDT

A British teacher accused of insulting Muslims after her class called a teddy bear Mohammad was found guilty and jailed for 15 days, a defence lawyer said.

Gillian Gibbons, 54, was ordered to be deported after she had completed her sentence.

"She was found guilty of insulting religion and the sentence is 15 days (in jail) and deportation," defence lawyer Ali Ajib said after the trial in a Khartoum courtroom, which lasted less than a day.

It's so rediculous, you just have to laugh. Except this person is actually going to a real jail, for allowing a Teddy to be named after the Schitzophrenic Mohammad.

 

[2020hindsight]

howdy kennas -
lol - I saw that - how ridiculous.

Got a feeling after this she ain't gonna complain about the deportation

No wonder comedians in these countries go broke.
Plenty of material, just none of the locals can see the funny side.

 

[Julia]

I am guessing that most of these woman would have come from well off families and been fortunate enough to be allowed to study overseas. Some of them probably have chosen to go against their family and remain overseas.

If you are interested in this topic you should read "Princess" .
http://www.amazon.com/Princess-Story-Behind-Saudi-Arabia/dp/0967673747

Its a good read and will give you a much better understanding of the situation for woman in Saudi.
I lived and work in Saudi Arabia and continue to work in the middle east so I have some first hand experiance on the going ons in these countries. Even in the UAE (which is suppose to be one of the more liberal muslim countries) a woman needs permission from her husband to work, get a drivers license etc.
My wife was not impressed to say the least, especially when they put down on her drivers license "Occupation = House wife".

Thanks for that, Kitehigh. I appreciate your input. What would happen, e.g. to a woman who never married (does that happen?) whose father died and who had no brothers? To whom would she have to defer?

Does your wife have to observe the covering up rules which apply to the Muslim women?

 

[numbercruncher]

This is one of the more ludicrous things I've heard religion do.


It's so rediculous, you just have to laugh. Except this person is actually going to a real jail, for allowing a Teddy to be named after the Schitzophrenic Mohammad.

Yes it utter madness, I cant understand for the life of me why Westerners go vist such countries let alone choose to work in them.

If you starve these places of Western workers they will soon come begging and changing laws im sure ..

 

[2020hindsight]

What would happen, e.g. to a woman who never married (does that happen?) whose father died and who had no brothers? To whom would she have to defer?

julia, there was a doco on Afghanistan recently - the same would apply of course for Iraq ......

A widow whose husband was killed by allied bombing (just going about his business) with several daughters - trying to etch out a living - spends all days crouched in the snow begging to passers-by for money for food

face completely covered of course, (burqa), - they asked her to lift her face mask in the privacy of her own home, and she reluctantly agreed - revealing a face that life and society (and war) had treated very cruelly -

She spends all day squatting at a corner in the snow because she doesn't have the strength to stand ...

you got the impression she wouldn't last another winter.

In some Islamic sub-cultures, women choose to wear the niqab, an all-encompassing garment intended to conceal every part of the body, sometimes including the eyes. Wearing a niqab (sometimes referred to as a burqa, although this term only technically applies to an Afghan all-in-one garment) is quite common in many countries in which Muslims make up the majority of the population. In most Muslim countries, such expressions of modesty are voluntary. In others, such as Afghanistan under the Taliban, they were enforced under the threat of severe physical punishment.[6]

 

[2020hindsight]

AHHH wowo - at last !! - some sense !!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/27/2102505.htm

Saudi FM criticises rape lash judgement
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:01pm AEDT

Saudi Arabia's Foreign Minister has distanced his Government from a court's decision to sentence a rape victim to 200 lashes.

The woman, who was gang-raped, was sentenced to the lashes plus six months in jail for the crime of being alone with an unrelated man at the time of the attack.

Prince Saud al-Faisal says "bad judgements" happen in legal systems.

The court ruling has sparked outrage from international human rights groups.

I particularly like the fqact that her husband was always on her side and defending her - that she was only trying to retrieve a photo from the "unrelated male"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/29/2105281.htm
Saudi judges insulted me, gang rape victim says
Posted Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:48pm AEDT

A Saudi gang rape victim who was sentenced to six months in jail and 200 lashes was scolded by judges while police repeatedly dismissed her claims, she said in testimony published today.

The 19-year-old girl described the rape itself - including the fact that one of her attackers photographed her - and her struggle to eat or sleep in its immediate aftermath to the New York-based Human Rights Watch (HRW).

She was attacked at knifepoint by seven men after she was found in a car with a male companion who was not a relative, in breach of strict Saudi law, and was initially sentenced last year to 90 lashes for being with the man.

Following her appeal, the court ordered her punishment should be increased to the current sentence, a decision which has attracted wide international condemnation from human rights groups to the White House.

According to the testimony published in Britain's The Independent newspaper, once the girl's husband found out about the gang rape, he told the police and appealed for the rapists to be arrested, to which a police officer said: "You go find them and investigate."

The husband telephoned the police on four separate occasions before any action was taken.

Once in the courtroom, the girl, who has not been identified, was questioned repeatedly by the judges about the nature of her relationship with the man she had met with, and why she had left the house.

"They used to yell at me. They were insulting ... One judge told me I was a liar because I didn't remember the dates well," she said.

"They kept saying, 'Why did you leave the house? Why didn't you tell your husband?'"


Sentencing

After the initial sentence of 90 lashes was announced in court, she was told by a judge that she "should thank God that you're not in prison".

Her husband told Human Rights Watch that after the first sentence, "It was like she was the criminal."

"When the judges passed down the sentence, I asked them, 'Don't you have any dignity?'"

The assailants' sentences were also toughened on appeal to between two and nine years.

Their sentences fell short of the death penalty - which could be imposed in a rape conviction - due to the "lack of witnesses" and the "absence of confessions" as required by Islam, the justice ministry said.

Also in the testimony to HRW, the girl said she had met with the man in the car because she "had a relationship with [him] ... on the phone" and was hoping to take back a photograph of her that she had given him.

They were stopped by another car and taken to a secluded area: "They took me to a dark place. Then two men came in. The first man with the knife raped me ... I tried to force them off but I couldn't."

After four of the men raped her, "The fifth took a photo of me like this. I tried to cover my face but they didn't let me."

Two more men then raped her, and after being informed the time was 1:00 am, she was then raped again by all seven men.

The group then took her home: "When I got out of the car, I couldn't even walk. I rang the doorbell and my mother opened the door. She said, 'You look tired'."

"I didn't eat for one week after that. Just water. I didn't tell anyone. I can't sleep without pills. I used to see their faces in my sleep," she said.

Saudi Arabia's justice ministry said on Saturday the woman had admitted having an extramarital affair with the man in the car.

HRW dismissed the ministry's claims, though, with Farida Deif, researcher in HRW's women's rights division, saying: "The Ministry of Justice's response to criticism of its unjust verdict has been appalling".

"First, they attempted to silence this young woman, and now they're trying to demonise her in the eyes of the Saudi public."

 

[kitehigh]

Thanks for that, Kitehigh. I appreciate your input. What would happen, e.g. to a woman who never married (does that happen?) whose father died and who had no brothers? To whom would she have to defer?

Does your wife have to observe the covering up rules which apply to the Muslim women?

Firstly to answer your first question. The only reason normally that a woman wouldn't marry in Saudi, is if she had been raped and was now deemed to be spoiled. Or suffered from some other handicap that made her non marriage material. If she had no immediate male relatives because of death or some other reason, than she would generally be taken in by the extended family. Arabs generally have quite large families and family bonds are one of their strongest traits.

In response to your second question, my wife never travelled with me to Saudi as I was only there on a short assignment. But if she did, than she would have been required to cover up. Depends on where you go in Saudi determines how strict the dress code for foreigners is. For example in Jeddah I saw foreign woman getting around with no head scarf, but wearing the black robe to cover their bodies. Whereas in Riyadh which is the capital of Saudi they have a very strick dress code and enforce it. So there you see no woman getting around without full covering.
Living in Dubai foreign woman are under no obligation to cover up, but my wife did start dressing more conservative after awhile as she wanted to avoid the stares and harassment from the males of all different races. Dubai also has alot of prostitution and with alot of them coming from russia this provided other problems for my wife. Because she has blonde hair and is quite attractive she would attract even more attention from males. Thats the problem when you have some poorly educated guys thinking all western woman must be prostitutes.
On an interesting side note, I have never had a problem dealing with the local woman who work (in dubai local woman are allowed to work and drive cars) for the different govt organizations such as the telco and utilites companies, but my wife on the other hand copped no amount of grief from them. I put it down to that they resent western woman to a certain extent, because they see local males hooking up with them and also taking them as brides, whereas a local woman is not allowed to marry a foreigner. I did read that local woman were complaining about this to the rulers, and wanted the marriage restrictions lifted so that they could marry foreign muslim males. Their argument was that there was not enough available local males to go round so they should be allowed to marry an outsider.

 

[Whiskers]

Another horrible story along the same lines.

It really lowers my opinion of people/country leaders who condone this sort of pracrtice on the basis of tradition and or culture.

Culture and tradition doesn't make it right... just sustained.

As for the women and fathers in particular who actually support such practice, I'd say there's a good chance they suffer from 'Stockholm Syndrome'.

Will the UN (or someone) ever be in a position to impose nations to abide by some basic human rights?


http://www.news.com.au/world/yemeni...fter-intercourse/story-e6frfkyi-1225851585843

 

[bellenuit]

Sorry of this is a bit off topic, but it is relevant to Islamic culture and its ability to integrate with western society.

The best that can be said about this guy is that he is at least honest about his intentions and his anathema for western society, even though he lives in the UK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne7z-_RXWeA

 

[Client]

I am not surprised that arabic countries still remain third world countries with these type of laws and customs...