Japanese Whaling

[roland]

Hi, new thread. Everytime I hear something on this - it annoys the hell out of me.

I am either not very well informed on the whaling issue, or very naive. How can there be any justification for the Japanese to continue slaughtering whales for "scientific research"?

It's pretty obvious to me, that the end result is a piece of whale sashimi on a Japanese dinner plate. I cannot believe that the same conclusion is not obvious to everyone else.

I am also not insensitive to the political issues regarding foriegn trade with Japan, and how the whaling issue takes a very big backseat to pressuring Japan to cease it's whaling.

I am not a hard core greenie, but know when something is wrong - and killing these beautiful creatures is wrong.

Greenpeace and that American renegade Shepard are always presented in such a bad light when the media reports on the conflicts between them and the Japanese whalers.

I heard tonight on the 7.30 Report on ABC that the Japanese have added the Humpback and the Fin Whale to their list for this years slaughter.

I would like to hear other opinions.

 

[aussie86]

I think im with you mate,

I get the feeling the issue is been pushed into the background because of other considerations (e.g. trade, general diplomacy).

Also you have to remember that eating whale has been part of the Japanese culture for ages, so I think a softly softly approach may be best at solving this. From memory, I think Greenpeace had started a campaign aimed at Japanese school children, trying to educate them about what has to happen to get whale onto their plates. I think this might be the best approach.

Cheers

 

[doctorj]

Also you have to remember that eating whale has been part of the Japanese culture for ages

I was under the impression that whale meet was more of a status symbol than for real regular consumption until after WW2.

 

[roland]

I think im with you mate,

I get the feeling the issue is been pushed into the background because of other considerations (e.g. trade, general diplomacy).

Also you have to remember that eating whale has been part of the Japanese culture for ages, so I think a softly softly approach may be best at solving this. From memory, I think Greenpeace had started a campaign aimed at Japanese school children, trying to educate them about what has to happen to get whale onto their plates. I think this might be the best approach.

Cheers

I think I would be more sympathetic if the Japanese came and said they carry out whaling as their cultural right for filling their dinner plates, instead of the lies about scientific research. I wouldn't be any closer to supporting it, but it would make it far less annoying.

 

[roland]

I was under the impression that whale meet was more of a status symbol than for real regular consumption until after WW2.

I think you are correct. I remember seeing some research where the younger Japanese didn't even like whale meat. They much preferred pizza and macca's

 

[sam76]

I think you'll find that this is the last hurrah of an old tradition and it will be finished within the next decade regardless of external pressure.

As you said, the young'uns simply don't care about whale eating traditions.

Doesn't taste that great, anyway.

 

[Pat]

It is very sad to see such blatant disregard for god’s creatures, they are endangered for god’s sake.
I also remember seeing huge amounts of dolphins being slaughtered on nine MSN or similar about 2 weeks ago. Could make a grown man cry

I am of the opinion that the Japanese have one of the most refined cultures, Perhaps I'm wrong?

 

[nioka]

Maybe the Japanese consider whales are a resource that are no different to any other mammal used as a source of meat. We eat beef, lamb, fish, kangaroo, possum, chicken, pork etc. Why not eat whalemeat. I have eaten it and have given it to others who could not tell it from beef (when served with plenty of onions.)
Whaling stopped because the numbers were decimated. Not many know why that actually happened and blame the Russians and the Japenese. That was not correct. Most whaling countries and whaling companies abided by quotas which were set to conserve the species and harvest on a sustainable basis. However the multi millionaire Aristotle Onasis set up a large whaling fleet made up from ex wartime shipping using minesweepers, corvettes and ex wartime freighters. He followed the whales around the world and harvested until they were nearly all gone. It took him only two years. His fleet was eventually seized in Peruvian waters and that was the end of his little escapade.Whaling stopped because of the fact that the whaling countries agreed there was a need to let the numbers recover. Japan was one country that allowed that to happen.Had they not done so there would not be any humpbacks left.
The whole whale debate for years has been dominated by the animal liberation movement and now taken over by the whale watching industry. Whales are majestic so are cattle and sheep. If people had never seen lambs frollicking in a paddock and were shown them as a tourist attraction I'm sure they would be just as much against the slaughter of sheep as they are with whales.
I say let the Japanese have a few. It is just as much their birthright to eat whale meat as it is for us to eat beef.

 

[Ageo]

The thing i dont like is that they are in our waters and they are hunting them without our permission.

In terms of the killing, well im assuming only a certain number of whales would be killed for consumption/research which would be sustainable. When they say whales are endangered you better look to see where that info is coming from because i once read "Red Kangaroo's" were endangered and unless you have been in the bush (red country) then you dont really know how many their are.

You have to also understand that if its part of their diet then whats the difference between a whale and a cow? or a chicken?

I find the bigger the animal the more feeling it shows and the more emotional people get. If they were endangered then i would be against it, if they are in our waters (which they are) then unless permission is granted i would also be against it.

Otherwise if a sustainable qouta is met each year with no breeches of anything else then i cant see a problem.

 

[Stan 101]

been seeing more and more humpbacks off Moreton Island in the last 10 years. So much so, it rare to not be in close proximity to at least one on a dive.

A marine biologist mate has been doing a bit of research on krill and is starting to think the populations of whales may soon have a noticeable effect on the little animal numbers. He isn't the only one in this line of thinking..

Don;t get me wrong I have a strong emotion for whales, maybe more than the average person due to many many close encounters. It is something you don't forget in a hurry when you are eyeballed by a humpback for the first time.

If the Japanese are actually killing whale for human consumption and not things like pet food, what other country has clean enough hands to take the moral high ground on thisand say the Japanese are being inhumane? Would the same reaction be put to our eskimo friends who's lives depend or did at one time depend on whale as a staple..

I think the cow is getting a bum's rush over this whole debate..How many cows is a whale worth in the humane debate? How many whales to a human?


cheers,

 

[shinobi346]

I think another thing is we lack the resources to patrol our territory and discourage/board whaling ships. so the Fed govt keeps pretty quiet about the issue to avoid being seen as a toothless tiger. I'm sure if the Fed govt did more, there'd be less vigilantes chasing the whaling ships.

BTW I am against whaling and NEVER would I when I go to JApan one day, will I knowingly eat whale or dolphin meat.

 

[BlingBling]

Guys,

I7ve been living in Japan for over ten years and we have never heard a whisper about all the fuss about whaling. In fact the only time we did see something on the news was last year when the Nisshin Maru had that fire and a crew member died. They made it out like it was the activists fault then, too.
We also see nothing about the dolphin massacres that that have just happened down in Taji.

Most Japanese I know won't eat whale and LOOVE dolphins. It's the old pollies that are trying to keep an old tradition alive of eating whale meat in school lunches because the old boys did in the war era.

They've recently started selling MINKES at our local supermarket. I guess I could buy some in the name of research

 

[Pat]

Maybe the Japanese consider whales are a resource that are no different to any other mammal used as a source of meat. We eat beef, lamb, fish, kangaroo, possum, chicken, pork etc. Why not eat whalemeat.

I understand what your saying, however the above animals are farmed. I myself eat all of the above, apart from possum, due to the fact they are endangered in Australia, now if it was NZ possum then i'd give it a try .

A marine biologist mate has been doing a bit of research on krill and is starting to think the populations of whales may soon have a noticeable effect on the little animal numbers. He isn't the only one in this line of thinking..

Do you mean more whales may effect other sea creature populations? I am of the understanding that if the apex preditor in an eco system is healthy, then the whole eco system is healthy (Steve Irwin). I guess not all whales are preditors but an Orca sure is.
For scientists to say that there are potentially too many whales for whatever reason seems somewhat unbelievable to me.
Or have I miss understood?

 

[Pat]

An example of an apex preditor!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuJyL4rqKkM

 

[Stan 101]

http://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarctica fact file/wildlife/krill.htm


Above is the first cab off the rank for a google search on "krill numbers." It does not lend itself to my mates discussion of a hypothesis.

He did give me some links a little while ago and I can't find them just now..

The page above is giving the ice melt on the poles as the main reason for the decline in krill, it seems.

BTW, I never mentioned there is definitive proof of the krill numbers. There are some scientific thought that there could well be a link.



Cheers,

 

[Snagglepuss]

My understanding is that whale meat is NOT a "traditional" food in Japan, apart from in one or two very small coastal communities. Whale meat was never widely eaten in Japan before WW2. During and immediately after WW2 it became more common as other food sources became scarce. However, it was seen as a poor substitute, and today it still retains something of a "poor man's food" image. It is not widely eaten at all. Older Japanese people may indeed look at whale meat with a bit of a nostalgic feeling, but most younger Japanese probably couldn't care less about it.

- Snaggle

 

[Pat]

http://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarctica fact file/wildlife/krill.htm


Above is the first cab off the rank for a google search on "krill numbers." It does not lend itself to my mates discussion of a hypothesis.

He did give me some links a little while ago and I can't find them just now..

The page above is giving the ice melt on the poles as the main reason for the decline in krill, it seems.

BTW, I never mentioned there is definitive proof of the krill numbers. There are some scientific thought that there could well be a link.



Cheers,

I would say for sure that the more whales there are the less krill there maybe, however I would think that they would reach an equilibrium... less krill = less whale food = less whales etc.
Anyway, I am for the krill as I am for the whales

 

[nioka]

I understand what your saying, however the above animals are farmed. I myself eat all of the above, apart from possum, due to the fact they are endangered in Australia, now if it was NZ possum then i'd give it a try .

Do you mean more whales may effect other sea creature populations? I am of the understanding that if the apex preditor in an eco system is healthy, then the whole eco system is healthy (Steve Irwin). I guess not all whales are preditors but an Orca sure is.
For scientists to say that there are potentially too many whales for whatever reason seems somewhat unbelievable to me.
Or have I miss understood?

If you were a(living) krill you would think of a whale as a predator. I,ve seen all sorts of things taken from whale stomachs from sea birds to herrings. Sperm whales are certainly predators. As for a shortage of krill they are being harvested in large quantities and like the fish stocks are being depleted.
Also if the apex predator is healthy then it is probably Ok to harvest some.
In a world where food is going to be in more and more demand and climate change reducing production, each whale will be looked at as 10 tonnes of meat and 8 tons of edible oil plus some other byproduct stock food ingredients.
As for possums, if you were a fruit grower you would not consider them endangered. They only seem that way because they mostly come out after dark and most people seldom get to see them.
Green peace like to show the killing of whales as very cruel. Most times the explosive charge in the harpoon head which explodes in the whale shortly after impact, means instant death. In the event that it does not happen then a second "killer" shot is fired. Of course there is blood in the water as there is blood in any abattoirs.
( I worked at whaling stations in the 50s for several seasons and do not apologise for the fact.)

 

[Gspot]

Guys,

I7ve been living in Japan for over ten years and we have never heard a whisper about all the fuss about whaling. In fact the only time we did see something on the news was last year when the Nisshin Maru had that fire and a crew member died. They made it out like it was the activists fault then, too.
We also see nothing about the dolphin massacres that that have just happened down in Taji.

Most Japanese I know won't eat whale and LOOVE dolphins. It's the old pollies that are trying to keep an old tradition alive of eating whale meat in school lunches because the old boys did in the war era.

They've recently started selling MINKES at our local supermarket. I guess I could buy some in the name of research

This is why Australia, NZ, USA, England etc should put some big money behind an Anti whaling group within Japan.
It should be run by young Japs, that could advertise on tv, and run a strong campaign with international backing. Then you would see change.

 

[chops_a_must]

This is why Australia, NZ, USA, England etc should put some big money behind an Anti whaling group within Japan.
It should be run by young Japs, that could advertise on tv, and run a strong campaign with international backing. Then you would see change.

Yeah, because the Japanese love having issues to do with pride pointed out to them...