Drug experimentation and dependence

[wayneL]

One thing which needs to be taken into consideration when quoting stats for people dying from smoking or alcohol related diseases as opposed to deaths from illicit drugs is probably the fact that most people who abuse alcohol and tobacco do so for life, whereas it seems people who use drugs (discounting the few who do get to be irretrievably addicted) do so for a limited period.

V. true Julia

 

[Sean K]

V. true Julia

Yep, great insight Julia. This may be the difference. Illicit drugs are hard and fast, alcohol and tobacco (and maybe fatty acids - another 'drug') are slow and insidious. That doesn't make them any better however.

Is a slow and insideous death any better than a hard and fast one?

Is this a quality v quantity argument?

 

[insider]

My solution to the drugs issue is legalize Marijuana... No body has ever died from a marijuana overdose and if it was easily attainable then drug dealers would be pushed out... as for the harder stuff well hopefully legalising Marijuana well help curve the direction of users away from the drug dealers that I assume sell Marijuana and Cocaine or heroine or Ice or whatever... Just An Idea... I've never used drugs in my life and am happy to continue that...

 

[insider]

I hate Drug addicts with a violent passion... thought I'd throw that in there

 

[Sean K]

I hate Drug addicts with a violent passion... thought I'd throw that in there

Just to throw in another perspective, what is a 'drug' addict?

I think we're discussing the surface elements of what is a 'drug', which IMO is fairly superficial so far.

Any 'drug' is only a thought or chemical that causes hyperinflation of our hormones and emotions. You can find that by all sorts of means, legal, or otherwise....

 

[Wysiwyg]

My solution to the drugs issue is legalize Marijuana... No body has ever died from a marijuana overdose ...

Lets hope no one we know gets smacked in a head on collision by a drug user that has fallen asleep or made a poor decision while in charge of an automobile.

 

[insider]

Lets hope no one we know gets smacked in a head on collision by a drug user that has fallen asleep or made a poor decision while in charge of an automobile.

Alcohol is responsible for more deaths, more poisoning than Marijuana can ever... The real solution is ban everything... Suddenly no one is listening if you catch my drift... The sad truth is people are selfish and prefer recreation over responsibility... This is another Iraq and Vietnam style war where you are fighting an invisible enemy or maybe just one that doesn't really exist...

 

[Bushman]

I hate Drug addicts with a violent passion... thought I'd throw that in there

Why hate drug addicts? They are fairly harmless lot with exceptions off course. The real harm they commit is self harm. The scariest thing I have seen in my time as a reveller is drunken yobs on the sauce knocking each other senseless.

Drugs - been there, done that and got over it fairly easily. So did most of my friends. Would I do it again? No way but so we learn. What 'drugs' continue to do harm amongst my 'now in our 30's' mates? Good old alcohol and ciggies ie the most addictive of the drugs out there. What is the only drug that ever made me act like a knob - alcohol. I love the way we just follow what the government tells us is good and bad. Alcohol - legal and a national past time so not a whimper. Ciggies - bad but legal. Dope, smack, ecstacy - illegal; thus immoral. Give me a break. Not to say that these do not cause harm. They do but that is not my point. Smack is a scourge, MDMA causes depression etc. But lets get real as to what does the most harm to society and what is a media beat up.

And while I am at it, no one ever questions the use of automobiles even though their use kill and maim more than all drugs put together.

 

[wayneL]

Lets hope no one we know gets smacked in a head on collision by a drug user that has fallen asleep or made a poor decision while in charge of an automobile.

Does that include legal drugs?

e.g. Alcohol
Cigarettes (CO poisoning)
Barbiturates
Antihistamines
Diazepam etc
Fluvoxamine etc

Not condoning driving under the influence of drugs in the slightest, but one of the worst of all is legal... alcohol. It makes you want to drag everyone off and do burnouts in front of the Police station.

Marijuana for eg, is more likely to make you a far less aggressive driver.

I really think there is much Gu'mint induced hysteria around the whole topic IMO.

 

[wayneL]

What is the only drug that ever made me act like a knob - alcohol.

Ditto there.

 

[insider]

Why hate drug addicts? They are fairly harmless lot with exceptions off course. The real harm they commit is self harm. The scariest thing I have seen in my time as a reveller is drunken yobs on the sauce knocking each other senseless.

Drugs - been there, done that and got over it fairly easily. So did most of my friends. Would I do it again? No way but so we learn. What 'drugs' continue to do harm amongst my 'now in our 30's' mates? Good old alcohol and ciggies ie the most addictive of the drugs out there. What is the only drug that ever made me act like a knob - alcohol. I love the way we just follow what the government tells us is good and bad. Alcohol - legal and a national past time so not a whimper. Ciggies - bad but legal. Dope, smack, ecstacy - illegal; thus immoral. Give me a break. Not to say that these do not cause harm. They do but that is not my point. Smack is a scourge, MDMA causes depression etc. But lets get real as to what does the most harm to society and what is a media beat up.

And while I am at it, no one ever questions the use of automobiles even though their use kill and maim more than all drugs put together.

I'm thinking at the same frequency as you... Statistics show that more people die from alcohol poisoning than from marijuana related accidents yet no one cares... people die younger due to polution etc. and nobody is doing a thing... very odd

But why do I hate Drug addicts? Because of the things they do to feed their habits... because they rob from my parents business thats why... They steal wallets for bank cards and money etc. All crap I have to deal with on occasion... You are right they are often very weak and don't put up a fight...

 

[Bushman]

But why do I hate Drug addicts? Because of the things they do to feed their habits... because they rob from my parents business thats why... They steal wallets for bank cards and money etc. All crap I have to deal with on occasion..

Fair enough. We can only comment on our own experiences. That sounds like an annoying problem to deal with especially as you and your folks are trying to make a decent living. Drug dependents can be a lot like parasites from my experiences. I used to live in Fitzroy in inner city Melbourne. I had my car stolen by smack users every 3 months in the late 90's/early nougties. Pain in the ass. I knew they were smackies as they once left a bag of hypodermics in the car!

 

[Wysiwyg]

Alcohol is responsible for more deaths, more poisoning than Marijuana can ever...

Yes that is true and it is legal to take alcohol!What would be the stats. if the rest of the mind warping stuff is readily available and legal?
I`ll tell you what, the society would have a generation of low/nil conscious people walking around that would not care about anyone but themselves.

As i mentioned earlier the side effects are many, you think alcohol and tobacco are worse well allowing the rest of the halucinegens would certainly bring an increase in dysfunction to the group.More laws more police and more freakin` nutters for the rest of us to deal with.

 

[petervan]

I think we already have a new generation of low/nil conscious people walking around that would not care about anyone but themselves.Not thru drugs but fed to us by the media.Dumbed down role models,you know,like whatever

 

[Kimosabi]

Well, I've been experimenting with RAW Organic Foods and Herbs and all I can say so far is, WOW.

This is some powerful stuff, heaps more energy, motivation, clearer thinking, weight loss, etc is where it is at.

I've just gone through my first batch of Home Grown Alfalfa Sprouts and the Wheat Grass is just about ready for Juicing.

I'm not sure why anyone would bother with the illegal crap when you can get an even better high just by eating some decent food...

 

[wayneL]

Well, I've been experimenting with RAW Organic Foods and Herbs and all I can say so far is, WOW.

This is some powerful stuff, heaps more energy, motivation, clearer thinking, weight loss, etc is where it is at.

I've just gone through my first batch of Home Grown Alfalfa Sprouts and the Wheat Grass is just about ready for Juicing.

I'm not sure why anyone would bother with the illegal crap when you can get an even better high just by eating some decent food...

Big ditto there.

Try making your own Essene bread too, dead easy and 100 times healthier than that bought crap.

 

[Mofra]

Yes but ARE THEY SAFE ON THE ROAD. Or just think they are.

Everyone I know going out for "a big night" doesn't drive.
I doubt the same could be said for drinkers.

 

[Julia]

My solution to the drugs issue is legalize Marijuana... No body has ever died from a marijuana overdose and if it was easily attainable then drug dealers would be pushed out... as for the harder stuff well hopefully legalising Marijuana well help curve the direction of users away from the drug dealers that I assume sell Marijuana and Cocaine or heroine or Ice or whatever... Just An Idea... I've never used drugs in my life and am happy to continue that...

On the surface, it seems like a pretty reasonable thing to do to at least decriminalise marijuana. Of itself, it doesn't seem to induce aggression, paranoia or any of the other mind altering effects of other harder drugs.
But I'm still uncomfortable about it, partly because then it would be so much easier to say "oh well, now we've done this, we might as well do the same for heroin et al". We already have real harm done to our society in general as well as to ourselves as individuals by alcohol and tobacco (and yes, I've used both), and knowing this, you'd surely have to say why would we risk adding to this by offering tacit approval to yet another drug.

One further point: there is no longer any doubt that marijuana use in susceptible individuals will potentiate schizophrenia.

 

[Julia]

Does that include legal drugs?

e.g. Alcohol
Cigarettes (CO poisoning)
Barbiturates
Antihistamines
Diazepam etc
Fluvoxamine etc

/QUOTE]

This is a good point. I can think of more than one person who exists in a total haze of prescribed drugs.
Not sure about barbiturates these days, Wayne? Do you find that they are still prescribed? They were largely replaced about 30 or more years ago by the benzodiazepines (e.g. diazepam/valium) because of their extreme toxicity.
If they are still available, then I think Dr. Phillip Nietschke would like to know about it.

 

[JeSSica WaBBit]

I think this whole thing comes back to being a people issue.

Some people in our society are plonkers, you know the people i am talking about.
The rest of us are responsible, unfortunately the number of plonkers seems to be on the increase.........................lets make the most of genetic modification or quater labotomise them at birth.

I don't think it matters what you do, some people just seem to have the ability to cause grief and harm to others and make a nuscience of themselves.

Arghhhhhhhhh, idiots, the bane of my life...................