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Tasered for asking John Kerry questions

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2020hindsight said:
maybe in your case a taser would be a good idea
presumably your preference would be a bullet in the leg or something :eek:
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2020, I think you need to take a bex(do they still make bex?) and have a lie down.

My point is that I find ugly demonstrators as nauseating as ugly police. When either goes all in, the loser needs to just get on with it.

All the conspiracy police theories are just that .. theories.

Garpal
 
You know what the saddest thing is? John Kerry probably had the power to come down there and tell everyone to take a breather, but he didn't, because he's a typical, manipulative, scummy US politician.

I don't get what people mean when they say "get on with it"? Garpal if I tasered your wife and locked her up in Guantanamo for oh, say a decade, and tell you to "get on with it" would it be really that easy?

Are you simply just gonna watch something that cruel, something which can be done WAY more peacefully, and just say "get on with it"? Who the hell "gets on with it" after getting electricuted, or beaten up?

Investors who lost their fortunes in Northern Rock should really just "get on with it", stuff trying to make a more secure British banking system JUST GET ON WITH IT LOL.

Zimbabweian women need to stop whinging about genital mutilation and JUST GET ON WITH IT!!!

US people should just accept their police not trying to do things peacefully, get tasered, and JUST GET ON WITH IT, they stuffed up the middle east oh well JUST GET ON WITH IT hey! The US devoured the worlds banking system through its progrilific ways, JUST GET ON WITH IT!
 
I agree, he was a ****, needed a swift kick in the balls, but i suppose tasers must be worse.

Worst thing is, he'll be jabbering on about this for years, especially if he gets some TV interviews etc.
 
Originally Posted by Garpal Gumnut ...
A bit of Tasering and a rough up never did any harm.
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?? ;)
maybe you could rephrase that then :eek:

My point is that the bludy things are potentially lethal.

Whether or not he was being a nerd. I just don't like tasers (hard to say without seeing all the footage either side of this incident) Him being arguably "difficult" is not the main point for me.

PS lol - I also suspect some truth in that political motive theory...
would he have been tasered if he were asking embarrassing questions at the expense of the Democrats ? no bludy way , lol
 
disarray said:
the guy was a twat. why do people always arc up at the cops? is it retardation? instead of walking off quietly and with dignity, he has to showboat and jump up and down and resist and make some stupid pointless political statement and embarass himself.

like others on this thread i've seen other videos of this nature and just about every single time the person being tasered is acting like a dick.

from some random article -



it took a shock but i think he finally learnt an important life lesson - you are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. "freedom of speech" does not mean "freedom to act like an idiot".
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I think you are focusing on the wrong thing.

Sure the guy was a numpty and out of order. But notice Kerry wanted to answer his questions? Then the coppers jumped in; inappropriate at that point.

Then he resists the police, bad move. The police were entitled to remove him and possibly arrest him for that.

But should they have tasered him? Absolutely not. He was adequately restrained by FOUR policemen and woman and could have been easily cuffed and removed, there was no threat to the police at that point, but they used a weapon.

Inappropriate force.
 
cuttlefish said:
Looks like a situation where a small amount of simple diplomacy could easily have cooled the situation. And if that didn't work, one cop, on one arm, briskly escorting him out of the place would have sufficed.

Is speaking too long at a microphone a criminal offence in America? Its not like this guy was shouting obscenities or making threats.
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Yep. So it's a crime to ask questions in a PUBLIC FORUM now? WTF?

Police are notoriously bad at dealing with people who are clearly mentally ill. I thought John Kerry could have done more to calm down the situation. But his lack of assertiveness has always been a problem. He did however say that he wanted to answer his questions... so why was this guy led out then?

Well... it's not really a surprise that this occurred in Florida, when issues of electoral fraud are raised.

I can't find any comments about it by JK, but what I can gather is that police officers on the UF college site are no longer going to be safe, going by some of the college pages. And fair enough too.

Just seems to be a growing trend in western countries... especially in those with very conservative governments...
 
disarray said:
it took a shock but i think he finally learnt an important life lesson - you are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. "freedom of speech" does not mean "freedom to act like an idiot".
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Ummm... so why are Wilson Tuckey and Bill Heffernan still alive?
 
disarray said:
the guy was a twat. why do people always arc up at the cops? is it retardation? instead of walking off quietly and with dignity, he has to showboat and jump up and down and resist and make some stupid pointless political statement and embarass himself.

like others on this thread i've seen other videos of this nature and just about every single time the person being tasered is acting like a dick.

from some random article -



it took a shock but i think he finally learnt an important life lesson - you are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. "freedom of speech" does not mean "freedom to act like an idiot".
Click to expand...



Dont' know about the laws of public assembly and meetings in the US but in Australia the Chairman of the essembly, in this case it would be Kerry is supposed to control the situation. Police have no right to step in unless there is an indication from the Chair or official lead person to do so. There may have been some prior understanding or signal perhaps worked out with the authourities but I think with a polititian like Kerry that is unlikely in the scenario played out here.

As an ex-cop of 28 years it is my view that the actions of the police in this case if it was here in Aus., would be right out of order. If that is the way of USA I am glad I live here.

Some of us are bit nutty on these forums too but because we are a free democracy we can all have a fair hearing, even if there is some very solid argument, its healthy. Forced repression of views is corrupt.
 
vishalt said:
You know what the saddest thing is? John Kerry probably had the power to come down there and tell everyone to take a breather, but he didn't, because he's a typical, manipulative, scummy US politician.

I don't get what people mean when they say "get on with it"? Garpal if I tasered your wife and locked her up in Guantanamo for oh, say a decade, and tell you to "get on with it" would it be really that easy?

Are you simply just gonna watch something that cruel, something which can be done WAY more peacefully, and just say "get on with it"? Who the hell "gets on with it" after getting electricuted, or beaten up?

Investors who lost their fortunes in Northern Rock should really just "get on with it", stuff trying to make a more secure British banking system JUST GET ON WITH IT LOL.

Zimbabweian women need to stop whinging about genital mutilation and JUST GET ON WITH IT!!!

US people should just accept their police not trying to do things peacefully, get tasered, and JUST GET ON WITH IT, they stuffed up the middle east oh well JUST GET ON WITH IT hey! The US devoured the worlds banking system through its progrilific ways, JUST GET ON WITH IT!
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Vishalt, this tasering is not an atrocity. Your atrocious analogies are indefensible, and I would never attempt to do so. I just feel that every now and then when a pillock behaves like a pork chop then a good kick up the **** or a taser is an experience that for him may cause pause for thought, and for the rest of us will enable free speech and the chance to ask questions of important politicians like John Kerry. Then again he could be mentally ill. Or the copper could have been. Its not all that important. The poor lady in Zimbabwe is important. By the way Mrs Gumnut hates the Caribbean. She's a good shot so you'd have to be quick with the taser.

Garpal
 
disarray said:
the guy was a twat. why do people always arc up at the cops? is it retardation? instead of walking off quietly and with dignity, he has to showboat and jump up and down and resist and make some stupid pointless political statement and embarass himself.

like others on this thread i've seen other videos of this nature and just about every single time the person being tasered is acting like a dick.

from some random article -



it took a shock but i think he finally learnt an important life lesson - you are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. "freedom of speech" does not mean "freedom to act like an idiot".
Click to expand...

Spot on. I agree Wayne that the cops may have jumped the gun a little but this guy is being a complete asshole and whinging like a baby. Personally I would have liked to have given him more than a tazering.
 
2020hindsight said:
?? ;)

My point is that the bludy things are potentially lethal.
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The 1 i used to have you would need to hold it to a persons neck for 30seconds before they ended up in a coma (not dead). 30 seconds is a long time in a scuffle, (mine was a high voltage 1 also). Its like saying i dont support police having batons/ guns etc.. yes they might have over reacted but at the end of the day at least he knows in the future whos boss. These days police are treated like scum and are walked all over.
 
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ec_1190097717
ok - they lead him to the door
everyone seems to be really surprised , many ask "what did he do !!??" :confused:

he tries to break free instead of going through the door
they get him down to cuff him
Kerry is heard to say "hey officers... can we.....
hey folks ....

hey folks...
I think if everybody just ....
calms down.."
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police response ? ....... TASER!!

girls scream "why are you doing that !!"

police finish cuffing, drag him out - march out as if rear guard action for a 5 man SAS team evacuating a CONTACT.

sheesh what a lot of BS!

(from someone who used to have the yardglass record in the SAS mess lol)
 
Ageo said:
The 1 i used to have you would need to hold it to a persons neck for 30seconds before they ended up in a coma (not dead). 30 seconds is a long time in a scuffle, (mine was a high voltage 1 also). Its like saying i dont support police having batons/ guns etc.. yes they might have over reacted but at the end of the day at least he knows in the future whos boss. These days police are treated like scum and are walked all over.
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Police are supposed to be impartial and an instrument to keep the peace on behalf of and for the people. Out of the violent demonstrations of the early 1970's we learnt to allow the people to express themselves and a certain amount of missbehaviour was tolerated. Unfortunately some take advantage of this and so we have almost reached zero tolerance.

Your understanding that the police are the boss is very dissapointing. A change of government thinking and perhaps government certainly looks due. I think it was Whitlam who came to power at the height of the Vietnam riots and police then moderated thier approach. The over the top security at Sydney recently could be a strong sign.

But yes I agree these types of weapons in anyones hands against our fellow human beings is abhorrentt
 
dhukka said:
Spot on. I agree Wayne that the cops may have jumped the gun a little but this guy is being a complete asshole and whinging like a baby. Personally I would have liked to have given him more than a tazering.
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Why did the police man handle him in the first place? What law did he break that required police to commence physical restraint? At what stage did he become someone hogging the mike, who got a bit annoyed when it got cut off, to a criminal requiring restraint? At what stage was he warned that his behaviour was illegal and if he continued he would be arrested and physically restrained? Clearly John Kerry didn't think he was acting criminally or he wouldn't have been agreeing to answer the question.

Do the police have the right in America to physically restrain someone without cause? If not then what was the cause for restraint, and if there was none then he was being illegally assaulted - justifiable reason for attempting to resist the assualt and asking for help.

Also what are the criterion for inciting a riot - is talking too long at a microphone inciting a riot?

The police behaviour was far more likely to incite a riot than the actions of the gentleman concerned.
 
Ageo said:
The 1 i used to have you would need to hold it to a persons neck for 30seconds before they ended up in a coma (not dead). 30 seconds is a long time in a scuffle, (mine was a high voltage 1 also). Its like saying i dont support police having batons/ guns etc.. yes they might have over reacted but at the end of the day at least he knows in the future whos boss. These days police are treated like scum and are walked all over.
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Ageo
This is an important one in my books.
Aus seriously doesn't need these things.
As I posted back there ... (incidentally an article posted today !!
Obviously this is getting publicity in the USA as well . (thanks God)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/12/earlyshow/main648859.shtml

NB "If you have someone who has a knife, who is threatening other people but isn't quite at the level where you'd use lethal force, you'd pre-empt with the TASER, get them safely under control before it escalates."
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BUT THAT's not how the cops use it !!!

Note last sentence ....
"70 people have died after being TASERed, including 10 in August alone"


When CBS News Correspondent Wyatt Andews first started looking into police use of the TASER stun gun a year ago, the weapon had been connected to more than 40 deaths. The company that makes the weapon insisted that none of the deaths was the TASER's fault.

So, says Andrews, "We began asking, simply, how could that be? What was the real safety record of this weapon?"

"Today, in what clearly is a law-enforcement revolution, tens of thousands of police officers see the TASER as a godsend.

"The gun shoots two barbed fish hooks into the body, bringing 50 thousand volts. Most of the time, the suspect goes down--and the cop's revolver stays put."

"You can use it before you would have to use the revolver," asserts Rick Smith, CEO of TASER International. "If you have someone who has a knife, who is threatening other people but isn't quite at the level where you'd use lethal force, you'd pre-empt with the TASER, get them safely under control before it escalates."

But, Andrews points out, using the TASER to bring down a threatening suspect isn't always the way the gun is used.

In Glendale, Colo., Glen Leyba was on his apartment floor, thrashing violently. A police officer, hoping to control him, stunned him three times, before he died. While the coroner blamed a drug overdose, the family blames multiple, unnecessary electric shocks, Andrews reports.

Shelly Leyba, Glen's sister, says, "Glen was in a medical emergency, down on the ground, no threat."

In Indiana, inmate James Borden was stunned six times by an officer, then died on the jailhouse floor. Borden was also high on drugs, and again his family blames overuse of the TASER. "They juiced him to death," charges Steve Borden, James' brother.

On Long Island, David Glowczenski was suffering a mental breakdown, so his family called police for help.

His sister, Jean Griffin, says, "We called them for safety because he was disoriented. …And an hour later he was dead."

Glowzenski died after a confrontation in which an officer stunned him nine times with a TASER, and he wasn't on drugs or alcohol, Andrews notes. "He committed no crime; he didn't do anything wrong," Griffin says.

TASER Intenational is adamant the weapon simply lacks the power to kill or injure, Andrews says. [ BULLSH1T]! CEO Smith said TASER tested dogs and pigs and determined the TASER's shock can not injure the heart: "If we knew there was a problem, we would certainly want to disclose that. We've researched it and have not found it."

Technically, stresses Andrews, when the company says the TASER has never caused a death, it is right. However, since 2000, five different medical examiners have listed the stun gun or the TASER specifically as a factor in someone's death.

Dr. Roland Kohr, Indiana regional medical examiner, called a death in his state "the straw that broke the camel's back."

In the Indiana case of James Borden, Dr. Roland Kohr says TASER is overlooking the stress that muliple shots from the weapon can cause, especially to someone high on drugs. Kohr ruled TASER a factor in Borden's death.

"The application of the TASER was the trigger factor or the stressful event that caused the elevation of blood pressure, the elevation of heart rate which stressed an already damaged heart to the point that it went into cartiac arrest," Kohn says.

Smith says he does not accept that finding. "I rely on the advice of medical experts who have told me that there is absolutely no basis to conclude the TASER contributed to this death."

But Borden's mother, Dorothy, says flatly, "I believe it killed my son."

Today, by the count of CBS News, 70 people have died after being TASERed, including 10 in August alone, Andrews observes. And while the company asserts every one of these victims died of something else, many critics believe the company has not done enough research to know that with certainty, Andrews adds.
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2020hindsight said:
Ageo
This is an important one in my books.
Aus seriously doesn't need these things.
As I posted back there ... (incidentally an article posted today !!
Obviously this is getting publicity in the USA as well . (thanks God)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/12/earlyshow/main648859.shtml
Click to expand...

Dear 2020,

I have done a search on the lethality of tasers and read your quoted cbs article in detail.

I find the evidence lacking for their lethality. Many of the quoted cases were overweight, unfit, on substances or being subdued or assaulting others forcibly. Thus the evidence for implicating tasers is weak, very weak.

Garpal
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
Many of the quoted cases were overweight, unfit, on substances or being subdued or assaulting others forcibly. Thus the evidence for implicating tasers is weak, very weak.
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I don't really get this point. If someone who is unfit or overweight is at risk of death from being tazered, or someone who is under the influence of a substance is at risk of death from being tazered, then that would mean tazers are dangerous wouldn't it? There are also medical conditions that would increase the risk of being tazered causing either death or permanent physical injury.
 
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