The Voice

[farmerge]

Ex chairman of ATSIC and strong voice in Aboriginal self determination.
Doesn't help the cause at all.

Interesting to see what if any sentence is handed down, or does he have many friends in high places to save his hide.

 

[IFocus]

Indigenous leader Geoff Clark facing jail time for years-long community theft, fraud

Clark could be jailed after being found guilty of stealing more than $1 million from Indigenous community organisations to pay off ballooning personal debt.

www.theage.com.au

Had the voice gone thru, we could change the laws and make this legal freeing an innocent man racially vilified

Unfortunately Clark was a big disaster for ATSIC along with others who didn't act to get rid of him, this is what happens when elites like Clark get in, Clark single handedly put back Aboriginal affairs decades.

ATSIC handed out money which caused all sorts of problems and basically failed to connect with regional Aboriginals.

Various governments failed in the oversight of ATSIC.

The Voice actually was going to be very different in as much many of the seats were to be filled directly from the regions and no moneys would be involved it was going to be a statutory body that gave advice with no actual powers other than to exist.

 

[JohnDe]

The Voice actually was going to be very different in as much many of the seats were to be filled directly from the regions and no moneys would be involved it was going to be a statutory body that gave advice with no actual powers other than to exist.

Yes, giving seats with political voice in the Australian Parliament by race was deemed wrong by the majority of Australians.

Two-in-three Australians, 66.1 per cent, who voted ‘no’ to an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice to Parliament said they rejected the proposed constitutional change because it would divide the nation, according to new research from The Australian National University (ANU).​

“However, it is clear from our findings that voters did not see the Voice model put to them as the right approach to remedy that disadvantage.”​

One country, one people, Australian.

 

[IFocus]

One country, one people, Australian.

That would be nice but by the numbers it's simply not the case and unfortunately after 200 or more years it's getting a lot worse in some areas for Aboriginals.

Certainly not one people when it comes to the wealthy, powerful elites.

Although the Voice was defeated I haven't seen any movement from the no vote as to what the alternative is.

Still Jacinda will fix it...not.

BTW suspect Clark would have voted against the Voice.

 

[JohnDe]

That would be nice but by the numbers it's simply not the case and unfortunately after 200 or more years it's getting a lot worse in some areas for Aboriginals.

Certainly not one people when it comes to the wealthy, powerful elites.

What, these wealthy powerful elites -

Prof Megan Davis is co-chair of the Uluru Dialogue and a member of the government’s referendum adviser group.

Professor Marcia Langton AO is an anthropologist and geographer, and since 2000 has held the Foundation Chair of Australian Indigenous Studies

Thomas Mayo of the Maritime Union of Australia is a Kaurareg Aboriginal and Kalkalgal, Erubamle Torres Strait Islander author

 

[JohnDe]

Still Jacinda will fix it...

Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, Shadow Minister for Indigenous Affairs, tackles the problems with Native Title legislation in Australia and how it is holding many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities back.​

​

Too many Indigenous Aussies have been left land-rich but economically disadvantaged. Can the system evolve to support economic progress? Find out in this thought-provoking discussion on land rights, private ownership, and Indigenous advancement.​

 

[IFocus]

What, these wealthy powerful elites -

View attachment 184273
Prof Megan Davis is co-chair of the Uluru Dialogue and a member of the government’s referendum adviser group.

View attachment 184274
Professor Marcia Langton AO is an anthropologist and geographer, and since 2000 has held the Foundation Chair of Australian Indigenous Studies

View attachment 184275
Thomas Mayo of the Maritime Union of Australia is a Kaurareg Aboriginal and Kalkalgal, Erubamle Torres Strait Islander author

I note they are highly educated experienced and employed and activity supported by Aboriginal communities unlike Price who is quoted saying she is saddened that family and mob no longer will talk to her along with I believe every land council in the NT.

Price represents the conservative white elite which is her right but hypercritical when she has repeatedly said she speaks for her people.

 

[JohnDe]

I note they are highly educated experienced and employed and activity supported by Aboriginal communities unlike Price who is quoted saying she is saddened that family and mob no longer will talk to her along with I believe every land council in the NT.

Price represents the conservative white elite which is her right but hypercritical when she has repeatedly said she speaks for her people.

Evidence, otherwise it is just your opinion.

One side that you agree with, and the other side that you don't. Which naturally makes you biased.

Price is talking about people and incentive. Whereas you and those "wealthy, powerful elites" that you mention want to slot in an Aboriginal voice into parliament that is voted in not by the Australian voters but by the Aboriginal voter.

How will that stop the violence and poverty in remote Aboriginal communities?

Anything that an Aboriginal voice in parliament contributes in a way to improve remote aboriginal communities can be done right now, by releasing the funds that they have accumulated.

The not so hidden truth here is that a group of, mostly, socialists want to create two governing bodies with two different types of voter.

Is it any surprise that we see the Aboriginal flag next to the CFMEU flag the Palestinian flag, and others?

Your misguided support is poorly placed. Those "highly educated experienced" people that you say are supporting Aboriginal communities for the past 20 plus years have nothing to show for their effort, other than their own power and self worth. They have linked themselves to political causes that are dividing the nation, not uniting and improving it.

 

[JohnDe]

Interested to hear your comments after you watch the video -

 

[IFocus]

Evidence, otherwise it is just your opinion.

As are your comments, it's all opinion.

One side that you agree with, and the other side that you don't. Which naturally makes you biased.

As you are too biased.

Price is talking about people and incentive. Whereas you and those "wealthy, powerful elites" that you mention want to slot in an Aboriginal voice into parliament that is voted in not by the Australian voters but by the Aboriginal voter.

How will that stop the violence and poverty in remote Aboriginal communities?

The powerful elites I talk about voted no not sure what your point is.

BTW incentives are nothing new. Price has put forward nothing new her ideas' are what white conservatives want to hear which I understand they voted her in and that's the company she keeps.

Anything that an Aboriginal voice in parliament contributes in a way to improve remote aboriginal communities can be done right now, by releasing the funds that they have accumulated.

No worries problem solved.

The not so hidden truth here is that a group of, mostly, socialists want to create two governing bodies with two different types of voter.

Nope that's the same lazy rubbish as "if you don't know vote no."

There were any number of conservative high court justices, judges, politicians, constitutional experts etc involved with the whole process and idear I don't understand how you could miss that point.

Is it any surprise that we see the Aboriginal flag next to the CFMEU flag the Palestinian flag, and others?

I dont know whats your point? Are all Aborigines trying to storm the barricades?

Your misguided support is poorly placed. Those "highly educated experienced" people that you say are supporting Aboriginal communities for the past 20 plus years have nothing to show for their effort, other than their own power and self worth. They have linked themselves to political causes that are dividing the nation, not uniting and improving it.

That's certainly the divisive language used by and pushed the foreign owned News Corp and its shrills the truth is somewhat different where they are worthy Australians trying to make a difference to the biggest disadvantaged group in our country while having rocks thrown at them for their efforts.

You may disagree with how they are attempting to achieve this but I would suggest its disingenuous to disparage them for having ago.

The lastest results show they have no power at all.

As for division clearly you have never been to a North West country town.


BTW if you havent noticed this has all been done to death and some I won't be commenting further as its wholly pointless IMHO.

 

[sptrawler]

Just to add a small piece of information, for the sake of accuracy, the majority of the Yes vote came from the wealthy areas of Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne, from people who have little or minimal contact with aboriginals.
Melbourne and Sydney have more of an issue with ethnic gangs, than aboriginals from what I have heard.

The majority of the No vote came from the remaining capitals cities and regional Australia, where people deal with aboriginals and their issues on a far more regular basis.

The issues that need to be addressed to improve the situation for aboriginals, are at a State level and need to be addressed at a State level, but it needs both parties to compromise and that is where the problem lies.

They need to seperate the issues, rather than confuse the issues by bundling them together.

Some want better housing, others want compensation for loss of land, others want job opportunities in remote villages.

Really each State needs to discuss and get agreement on larger more concentrated remote communities, rather than having hundreds of remote communitis streching services to breaking point.

The subject of compensation needs to be dealt with Federally and openly IMO.

Just my opinion from working and living in remote areas.

 

[JohnDe]

Evidence, otherwise it is just your opinion.

One side that you agree with, and the other side that you don't. Which naturally makes you biased.

Price is talking about people and incentive. Whereas you and those "wealthy, powerful elites" that you mention want to slot in an Aboriginal voice into parliament that is voted in not by the Australian voters but by the Aboriginal voter.

How will that stop the violence and poverty in remote Aboriginal communities?

Anything that an Aboriginal voice in parliament contributes in a way to improve remote aboriginal communities can be done right now, by releasing the funds that they have accumulated.

The not so hidden truth here is that a group of, mostly, socialists want to create two governing bodies with two different types of voter.

Is it any surprise that we see the Aboriginal flag next to the CFMEU flag the Palestinian flag, and others?

Your misguided support is poorly placed. Those "highly educated experienced" people that you say are supporting Aboriginal communities for the past 20 plus years have nothing to show for their effort, other than their own power and self worth. They have linked themselves to political causes that are dividing the nation, not uniting and improving it.

View attachment 184277

View attachment 184278

View attachment 184279



View attachment 184280

It is a cartoon but it represents a real situation. The vast majority of the rioters in Melbourne appeared to be organised by wealthy left leaning educated elites and carried many flags -

 

[farmerge]

Just to add a small piece of information, for the sake of accuracy, the majority of the Yes vote came from the wealthy areas of Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne, from people who have little or minimal contact with aboriginals.
Melbourne and Sydney have more of an issue with ethnic gangs, than aboriginals from what I have heard.

The majority of the No vote came from the remaining capitals cities and regional Australia, where people deal with aboriginals and their issues on a far more regular basis.

The issues that need to be addressed to improve the situation for aboriginals, are at a State level and need to be addressed at a State level, but it needs both parties to compromise and that is where the problem lies.

They need to seperate the issues, rather than confuse the issues by bundling them together.

Some want better housing, others want compensation for loss of land, others want job opportunities in remote villages.

Really each State needs to discuss and get agreement on larger more concentrated remote communities, rather than having hundreds of remote communitis streching services to breaking point.

The subject of compensation needs to be dealt with Federally and openly IMO.

Just my opinion from working and living in remote areas.

Mr sp right on the money with this post.
Totally agree. Perhaps just too many snouts in the Taxpayers Trough rather than getting done what should be.

 

[JohnDe]

I note they are highly educated experienced and employed and activity supported by Aboriginal communities unlike Price who is quoted saying she is saddened that family and mob no longer will talk to her along with I believe every land council in the NT.

Price represents the conservative white elite which is her right but hypercritical when she has repeatedly said she speaks for her people.

“What was the point of having the conversation about the voice if we’re now not going to give voice to doing something about these long-term, systemic problems that require practical – but also a bit of creative – thinking?

Ms Westacott said the national conversation about Indigenous Australian had stalled after the failed voice referendum: “My nervousness has always been that we would retreat into doing nothing, as opposed to what I think needs to happen, which is huge innovation and huge change in the way Indigenous services (operate) – education, health, remote communities. That is about getting a bit more self-determination, but it’s also hugely about training, job creation, economic development, about utilising the estate that’s come from land title more efficiently.”​

​

But she said that “we’re now not allowed” to talk about Indigenous services, as if there was no “authorisation” to have tough conversations.​

​

“What was the point of having the conversation about the voice if we’re now not going to give voice to doing something about these long-term, systemic problems that require practical – but also a bit of creative – thinking? That conversation just seems to have gone, but the issues haven’t gone away.”​

 

[IFocus]

Indigenous constitutional recognition is overdue​

26 July 2018

Meaningful recognition of Indigenous Australians is long overdue, Business Council chief executive Jennifer Westacott said today.
“We have long supported constitutional recognition to ensure Indigenous Australians have a greater voice in decisions that affect their lives.
“A constitutionally enshrined Voice to Parliament will help ensure Indigenous Australians can enjoy the opportunity of full participation in the Australian economy and society as a whole.”
The Business Council’s submission to the Joint Select Committee on Constitutional Recognition, published today, makes a number of recommendations to the parliament to help ensure progress on reform does not falter.
“The committee must work towards a clear framework, explaining how the Indigenous Voice to the Parliament would work and giving the public and government an assurance that an Indigenous Voice would not constrain the Parliament’s legislative powers,” Ms Westacott said.
“A clearly articulated, concrete proposal will help avoid community uncertainty undermining support for reform.
“Recognition in the constitution can also help support efforts to close the gap in Indigenous disadvantage, alongside much needed economic development – through employment, procurement and capital formation.
“Our members are firmly committed to Indigenous empowerment and economic inclusion.
“Our members employ more than 20,000 Indigenous Australians and have spent or contracted more than $2 billion with Indigenous-owned businesses and joint ventures.
“A decision should be put to the Australian people via a referendum within 12 months of the next federal election. With the support of the Australian people, this would deliver a constitutional change before July 2020.”
The Business Council’s full submission to the Joint Select Committee on Constitutional Recognition Relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples is available here.

Indigenous constitutional recognition is overdue

Business Council of Australia

www.bca.com.au

 

[JohnDe]

Indigenous constitutional recognition is overdue​

26 July 2018

Meaningful recognition of Indigenous Australians is long overdue, Business Council chief executive Jennifer Westacott said today.
“We have long supported constitutional recognition to ensure Indigenous Australians have a greater voice in decisions that affect their lives.
“A constitutionally enshrined Voice to Parliament will help ensure Indigenous Australians can enjoy the opportunity of full participation in the Australian economy and society as a whole.”
The Business Council’s submission to the Joint Select Committee on Constitutional Recognition, published today, makes a number of recommendations to the parliament to help ensure progress on reform does not falter.
“The committee must work towards a clear framework, explaining how the Indigenous Voice to the Parliament would work and giving the public and government an assurance that an Indigenous Voice would not constrain the Parliament’s legislative powers,” Ms Westacott said.
“A clearly articulated, concrete proposal will help avoid community uncertainty undermining support for reform.
“Recognition in the constitution can also help support efforts to close the gap in Indigenous disadvantage, alongside much needed economic development – through employment, procurement and capital formation.
“Our members are firmly committed to Indigenous empowerment and economic inclusion.
“Our members employ more than 20,000 Indigenous Australians and have spent or contracted more than $2 billion with Indigenous-owned businesses and joint ventures.
“A decision should be put to the Australian people via a referendum within 12 months of the next federal election. With the support of the Australian people, this would deliver a constitutional change before July 2020.”
The Business Council’s full submission to the Joint Select Committee on Constitutional Recognition Relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples is available here.

Indigenous constitutional recognition is overdue

Business Council of Australia

www.bca.com.au

Yes, the Albanese Labor government and the wealthy elites failed us all.

“The committee must work towards a clear framework, explaining how the Indigenous Voice to the Parliament would work and giving the public and government an assurance that an Indigenous Voice would not constrain the Parliament’s legislative powers,” Ms Westacott said.​

​

“A clearly articulated, concrete proposal will help avoid community uncertainty undermining support for reform.​

They didn’t give us a clear framework, nor were they able to explain how it would work or assure voters of what powers would be available. In fact they failed to clearly articulate and avoid uncertainty.

The whole process was a failure due to the ineptness of the YES campaign.

And now they are too ignorant and/or stubborn to listen or look at any other way.

 

[IFocus]

JohnDe said:
The not so hidden truth here is that a group of, mostly, socialists want to create two governing bodies with two different types of voter.


Meaningful recognition of Indigenous Australians is long overdue, Business Council chief executive Jennifer Westacott said today.
“We have long supported constitutional recognition to ensure Indigenous Australians have a greater voice in decisions that affect their lives.
“A constitutionally enshrined Voice to Parliament will help ensure Indigenous Australians can enjoy the opportunity of full participation in the Australian economy and society as a whole.”

 

[JohnDe]

JohnDe said:
The not so hidden truth here is that a group of, mostly, socialists want to create two governing bodies with two different types of voter.


Meaningful recognition of Indigenous Australians is long overdue, Business Council chief executive Jennifer Westacott said today.
“We have long supported constitutional recognition to ensure Indigenous Australians have a greater voice in decisions that affect their lives.
“A constitutionally enshrined Voice to Parliament will help ensure Indigenous Australians can enjoy the opportunity of full participation in the Australian economy and society as a whole.”

Yes, the socialist elites and the majority of the Labor party wanted to trick the Australian people by sneaking in an unelected group into the constitution. When concerns turned into questions we were told that the answer would come after the referendum.

If the socialist left had listened to the voices of reason we would have had a better proposal that recognised Aboriginal voices but also one Australia.

A referendum that was not divisive but instead brought us together would have got through.

Strong leadership should have taken control and brought us to where it needed to be. Instead we got a self righteous Albanese government that thought they could con the people and create two Australia’s.

And now those same people that failed the referendum still refuse to listen or discuss with the rest of Australia that voted NO for the flawed referendum.

 

[sptrawler]

If the socialist left had listened to the voices of reason

Therein lies the reason, a lot of obvious faults and failings in our institutions and services haven't been dealt with, or wound back.
Fortunately Labor attained office and have actually started to do so, as in the NDIS money pit and demanding universities actually pump out teachers, rather than pump out degrees and invoices.
The left have wonderful social agendas, not all of them are practical, or well thought out.

 

[sptrawler]

Just to add a small piece of information, for the sake of accuracy, the majority of the Yes vote came from the wealthy areas of Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne, from people who have little or minimal contact with aboriginals.
Melbourne and Sydney have more of an issue with ethnic gangs, than aboriginals from what I have heard.

A little off topic, but just highlights how the elites make all the right noises about social agendas, but when push comes to shove if it actually affects them they have a different take on it.
As with infill higher density housing, they think it is a grest idea, as long as it isn't in their back yard.
Here is another example putting solar panels on the roof, a great idea, but not if it detracts from your multi million dollar houses street appeal.

‘Rich families don’t need to save money’: Why wealthy suburbs are less likely to have rooftop solar

The higher the household income in a postcode area, the less likely the homes are to have solar panels installed.

www.smh.com.au