The Voice

[wayneL]

Yeah, @#$& the Teals. Absolute vandals.

A real "Voice" about "The Voice" which the fake indigenous and useful idiots won't want to hear.

The Voice of Tyranny

Instead of addressing these core issues they politicise it like Aboriginal people are some sort of spectacle

josephinecashman.substack.com

 

[Knobby22]

Yeah, @#$& the Teals. Absolute vandals.

A real "Voice" about "The Voice" which the fake indigenous and useful idiots won't want to hear.

The Voice of Tyranny

Instead of addressing these core issues they politicise it like Aboriginal people are some sort of spectacle

josephinecashman.substack.com

The fakes are awful.
The trouble isn't the Voice which is pretty minor stuff. I think all the worries are just not understanding how limited it is. It will really have little effect except to not let the government do things like take the children away.

Whar really its going to matter is the Treaty.

Too many hangers on and fakes trying to get advantage rather than the real aboriginals who just want certain rights over the land they are living on and want a better way.

A treaty can take place but those wanting sovereign nations need to realise they cannot exist. If you look to other treaty in NZ, Canada etc. it is about making concessions which is fair enough. People like Lydia Thorpe are dreaming if they think they will get their way.

 

[sptrawler]

The fakes are awful.
The trouble isn't the Voice which is pretty minor stuff. I think all the worries are just not understanding how limited it is. It will really have little effect except to not let the government do things like take the children away.

Whar really its going to matter is the Treaty.

Too many hangers on and fakes trying to get advantage rather than the real aboriginals who just want certain rights over the land they are living on and want a better way.

A treaty can take place but those wanting sovereign nations need to realise they cannot exist. If you look to other treaty in NZ, Canada etc. it is about making concessions which is fair enough. People like Lydia Thorpe are dreaming if they think they will get their way.

I think you are spot on Knobby, I think that people are wondering "why a change to the constitution, to recognise the aboriginals as being the original inhabitants", everyone and his dog knows they are. So as you say why re invent the wheel, NZ and Canada have already put in place a process.
I personally can't see why putting a few words in the constitution, will change anything on the ground, if as the supporters are saying "it has no powers".
Why can't the Government put forward a referendum that states that a certain percentage of GDP is allocated to indigenous welfare and enrichment, as compensation and those funds are controlled by an elected indigenous group which have direct access to cabinet and the parliament of the day?
To set up a section of the constitution that acknowledges the indigenous, but has no power, just promotes two types of Australians indigenous and those that came later.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see how it all pans out, I'm sure none of us on ASF will have guessed it right.?

 

[Knobby22]

I think you are spot on Knobby, I think that people are wondering "why a change to the constitution, to recognise the aboriginals as being the original inhabitants", everyone and his dog knows they are. So as you say why re invent the wheel, NZ and Canada have already put in place a process.
I personally can't see why putting a few words in the constitution, will change anything on the ground, if as the supporters are saying "it has no powers".
Why can't the Government put forward a referendum that states that a certain percentage of GDP is allocated to indigenous welfare and enrichment, as compensation and those funds are controlled by an elected indigenous group which have direct access to cabinet and the parliament of the day?
To set up a section of the constitution that acknowledges the indigenous, but has no power, just promotes two types of Australians indigenous and those that came later.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see how it all pans out, I'm sure none of us on ASF will have guessed it right.?

It's a small step. I'm not against it or particularly for it. They were already are mentioned in the constitution originally as a separate people removed in 1967.


55. The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to:-
...(xxvi) The people of any race, other than the aboriginal people in any State, for whom it is necessary to make special laws.

127. In reckoning the numbers of the people of the Commonwealth, or of a State or other part of the Commonwealth, aboriginal natives should not be counted.

The argument I heard on the radio from an elder, was that with these new words the government couldn't pass a law without them at least having a say (be allowed to comment) e.g. on taking a tribe's children away.

I thought that argument was pretty puerile but then I have seen people, even on this thread, suggesting this should happen for the Alice Springs people which shocked me a bit. So maybe they have a point.

 

[Knobby22]

In the end though, I am undecided at present. I think most people are.

 

[sptrawler]

In the end though, I am undecided at present. I think most people are.

Agree with you completely, I would rather just see something put in place, that actually did something. It isn't as though a lot of money hasn't been thrown at the issue already.
It just sounds like a lot of noise and sod all action to me.
As I've said earlier, I think a lot more could be done at the local level, rather than wasting money on a talk fest. So that more politicians can get their names in the history books, rather than actually do anything.

 

[sptrawler]

Now the debate is starting to get sensible and real IMO.

Divided Greens head to a retreat to thrash out Voice stance

Lidia Thorpe wants a Treaty first and has dismissed the Voice as a powerless advisory body which she is threatening to oppose unless she is satisfied that "First Nations sovereignty is not ceded".

www.abc.net.au

 

[wayneL]

Why do we need a treaty (def: a written agreement between two or more countries, formally approved and signed by their leaders)?

What would it achieve, apart from once again, making the elites a whole bunch of money?

How would it benefit your average Aborigine out in the suburbs or in the regions?

 

[wayneL]

So, the question for the extreme leftists here and proponents of a treaty/voice... How will any of these bulshit measures solve issues highlighted in this video?

‘Disgusting’: ABC slammed for ‘kick in the teeth’ to Alice locals

Alice Springs locals and leaders are outraged at an ABC report depicting an emergency community meeting as full of “white supremacy” with some even suggesting impacted residents should abandon their town.

www.skynews.com.au

And don't try to wave me off on this one, I know more about this issue than I ever wanted to know.

 

[SirRumpole]

So, the question for the extreme leftists here and proponents of a treaty/voice... How will any of these bulshit measures solve issues highlighted in this video?

‘Disgusting’: ABC slammed for ‘kick in the teeth’ to Alice locals

Alice Springs locals and leaders are outraged at an ABC report depicting an emergency community meeting as full of “white supremacy” with some even suggesting impacted residents should abandon their town.

www.skynews.com.au

And don't try to wave me off on this one, I know more about this issue than I ever wanted to know.

Well, I'm afraid there are extremists on all sides which makes it difficult to find the truth if we only rely on the media.

So tell us all about it wayne as you say you know it all.

 

[wayneL]

Well, I'm afraid there are extremists on all sides which makes it difficult to find the truth if we only rely on the media.

So tell us all about it wayne as you say you know it all

Way to go mate, Disregard the issues by misrepresenting what I said. Scumbag.

 

[SirRumpole]

Way to go mate, Disregard the issues by misrepresenting what I said. Scumbag.

I don't know how you got the idea of misrepresentation. I just said we can't rely on the media.

You said "I know more about this issue than I ever wanted to know."

So unless you just get a kick out of denigrating other members, tell us your experiences if it's not too much trouble.

And by the way , I consider your response to my post to be insulting and falling into the category of "flaming" which I'm pretty sure is against the rules of this forum.

 

[wayneL]

So Horace tried to create a straw man by trying to represent that I think I know everything about issue.

I never said that I said that I knew more than I ever wanted to know. Clearly this is not everything about the issue.

Just a couple of things then. Long-term members world recall that Mrs and I lived in Geraldton for a couple of years (she, having grown up there).
One of our clients was a social worker in the department of Aboriginal affairs and an Aboriginal woman herself.

Way back then, late nighties, she highlighted all of the exact same issues that are mentioned in the article I posted above.

Another aboriginal lady who was a client of mine more recently, brought a 10-year-old girl belong to one of our appointments (she was also employed by social services and was a day carer.

The goal was bright, very cute and asked a lot of intelligent questions about my job.

At a later appointment I remarked how much I had enjoyed this little girls company and questions. The carer then told me the truth of the situation, that she had a very violent streak as a result of being sexually abused.

Mate, I can tell you I was gutted about that and I can tell you that I had a private cry

No, I do not know everything about his issue, but I learn as much as I can about it, as uncomfortable as that is.

That's why I am very critical about any top-down approach, it is unlikely to affect the lives such as this little girl.

Give me a solution to that and I will be on board 100-percent, until then you can shove your strawman arguments up your @55

 

[SirRumpole]

So Horace tried to create a straw man by trying to represent that I think I know everything about issue.

All I was asking for was your experience not that of some ABC or Fox news bimbo who have their own agendas.

Thank you for finally giving that.

And shove it yourself .

 

[SirRumpole]

So Horace tried to create a straw man by trying to represent that I think I know everything about issue.

I never said that I said that I knew more than I ever wanted to know. Clearly this is not everything about the issue.

Just a couple of things then. Long-term members world recall that Mrs and I lived in Geraldton for a couple of years (she, having grown up there).
One of our clients was a social worker in the department of Aboriginal affairs and an Aboriginal woman herself.

Way back then, late nighties, she highlighted all of the exact same issues that are mentioned in the article I posted above.

Another aboriginal lady who was a client of mine more recently, brought a 10-year-old girl belong to one of our appointments (she was also employed by social services and was a day carer.

The goal was bright, very cute and asked a lot of intelligent questions about my job.

At a later appointment I remarked how much I had enjoyed this little girls company and questions. The carer then told me the truth of the situation, that she had a very violent streak as a result of being sexually abused.

Mate, I can tell you I was gutted about that and I can tell you that I had a private cry

No, I do not know everything about his issue, but I learn as much as I can about it, as uncomfortable as that is.

That's why I am very critical about any top-down approach, it is unlikely to affect the lives such as this little girl.

Give me a solution to that and I will be on board 100-percent, until then you can shove your strawman arguments up your @55

The situation you described is horrific and would be repeated many times. There had to be an intervention once to stop it.

The Voice to Parliament won't stop it. The Voice has to be to the Aboriginal people themselves , telling them that child abuse, domestic violence , crime and drunkeness is not acceptable.

Once they sort out their internal problems then they can tell others what to do.

 

[sptrawler]

I see the voice is starting to spread its wings.

Penny Wong tells Britain to confront its colonial past

Visiting the United Kingdom for the first time in her role, Wong said many people “worked as domestic servants for British colonists, as did my own grandmother”.

www.smh.com.au

 

[SirRumpole]

I see the voice is starting to spread its wings.

Penny Wong tells Britain to confront its colonial past

Visiting the United Kingdom for the first time in her role, Wong said many people “worked as domestic servants for British colonists, as did my own grandmother”.

www.smh.com.au

I think we are becoming too obsessed with the past.

Other countries are flying past us technically, laughing at our obsession at every social injustice committed by our forbears.

 

[sptrawler]

Absolutely, I wonder if Penny is going to ask Japan for reparations from Japan for the slavery during WW2 on the Burma railroad?
Also Burma became independant from the UK in the late 1940's, there isnt many leaving Australia to go there.
The outrage of the Australian politicians, seems to be comensurate with the self depricating image they are trying to impose on the non indigenous Australian public, to what end I have no idea.
Maybe all the non indigenous should stand down from their jobs and have the indigenous take them up.
It could be done in a progressive way, the indigenous get the training, then get the job.
Lets see how that goes down.
This whole issue needs to be nailed down and sorted out, way too many people getting mileage for absolutely no positive outcome for aboriginals living in poverty, just a case of one gravy train, moving on to another, it's time that giving another name to to the train was stopped.
The voice is just another scam IMO, when in the last 50 years has all the money poured into aboriginal welfare, actually arrived at the cliff face and i.proved the situation?
BS, stacked on top of BS and the train moves on its merry way.
Other countries are flying past us technically, because they live in a society where there is a competitive society, that has to strive to achieve.
We in Australia have a small population with huge resources, we dont need to strive, we just dig holes and import skilled people, while we wallow in our smugness.
Hopefully it lasts, but I don't think it will. Lol

 

[mullokintyre]

I wonder how many people know just how many Indigenous bodies already exist.
Lets take the NiAA - or the National Indigenous Australians Agency.
From their NIAA website

As at 31 December 2021, the NIAA has 1,286 staff, of whom 300 identify as Indigenous. The NIAA occupies 39 commercial offices and has a presence in 12 remote communities.

Note how many white folk are on the gravy train, and if you look at the top of the tree where all the big money is made, its almost exclusively white.

Why on earth can this group not do exactly what "the voice" is supposed to do.
Its got a "presence" throughout OZ, they are "in touch" with all the communities, and tick all the correct boxes.
Mick

 

[SirRumpole]

Why on earth can this group not do exactly what "the voice" is supposed to do.

A very good question.

It's obviously got the organisational structure that would allow it to present submissions to Parliament , but you would run into protests from the more radical indigenous community that it's 'not representative' of Aboriginal people because ALL its staff are not Aboriginal.

The Voice is mainly tokenism as opposed to an actual improvement in indigenous conditions.