The ScoMo Government

[PZ99]

The problem is, Payroll Tax is a state thing rather than a federal thing.
One of the outcomes that was SUPPOSED to happen after Howard introduced the GST was that a myriad of state taxes such as stamp duty, payroll taxes etc were going to be removed and replaced with a progressive consumption tax.
Of course, the states renegged on their part of the deal, so we still have these regressive taxes that vary from stste to state.
Blame the states on this one, not the feds.
Mick

I know all that. But that doesn't stop the feds doing a direct deal with the states to kill off the tax.

They got close to doing it several times in the past - couldn't agree with the terms.

 

[mullokintyre]

I know all that. But that doesn't stop the feds doing a direct deal with the states to kill off the tax.

They got close to doing it several times in the past - couldn't agree with the terms.

Well, they supposedly had a comittment from the states as part of the GST sharing.
People tend to forget that the GST was a c razey brave comittment by the FEDS, firstly because the Coalition had orignally ruled it out, and secondly because they were introducng a big new tax where all the benefits were going to flow to the state coffers.

fromThe Age

The Howard Government's original plan for the GST envisaged the states abolishing a swag of financial taxes, which in effect would be replaced by the GST. They included:

• The financial institutions duty.
• The bank accounts debits tax.
• The NSW accommodation tax.
• Conveyancing duties on transfer of business property.
• A range of other stamp duties on leases, mortgages, sales of shares, cheques and credit arrangements.

Then came the GST deal with the Democrats, which removed the GST on food, knocking a big hole in the revenue forecasts. The Democrats proposed that it be filled by paring back the income tax cuts and increasing taxes on petrol — thereby leaving the original agreement with the states intact.

Howard and Costello were never going to increase the petrol tax nor downgrade personal income tax cuts, so the agreement was watered down

"The Ministerial Council will by 2005 review the need for retention of stamp duty on non-residential conveyances; leases; mortgages, debentures, bonds and other loan securities; credit arrangements, instalment purchase arrangements and rental arrangements; and on cheques, bills of exchange, promissory notes; and unquoted marketable securities."

The only commitment the states made was to "review the need" for these taxes. Heads of federal and state treasuries have been meeting to do so, and this review will come to a head when the treasurers meet on March 23.

Well they may have been reviewed, but the big ones are still there.
You only have to look at the farce that was the so called "national Cabinet of Unity" to see that the states will always go their own way.
You could get 5 out of six states to agree and still have it killed off.
The Feds have a lot to answer for, but the states and territories have a lot more.
Mick

 

[PZ99]

Yep.. well the reason they didn't agree is because someone forget to tell Costello the maths didn't add up.

GST doesn't remotely cover the stamp duty for starters... and that will get worse in the future.

But that doesn't stop the feds from directly funding the states in lieu of payroll tax today.

They are already doing something similar with WA re: the GST 70¢ deal.

 

[sptrawler]

Didnt the GST end up a watered down mess, as usually happens, by the time it has been through both houses?

 

[PZ99]

Didnt the GST end up a watered down mess, as usually happens, by the time it has been through both houses?

Yeah some of the food was subtracted to appease the dems.

 

[mullokintyre]

Yep.. well the reason they didn't agree is because someone forget to tell Costello the maths didn't add up.

GST doesn't remotely cover the stamp duty for starters... and that will get worse in the future.

I just had a quick look at the figures for Victoria.
Vics share of GST was 17billion
The total income ex GST was 19.6 billion.
Stamp duty accounted for 6.4 billion, and payroll tax accounted for 7 billion.

But that doesn't stop the feds from directly funding the states in lieu of payroll tax today.

They are already doing it with WA with the GST 70¢ deal.

Not sure what you mean there,

If you have a look at WA Government Treasury website, Payroll tax is still being levied in WA.

About payroll tax​

Payroll tax is assessed on the wages paid by an employer in Western Australia and the Indian Ocean Territories.

According to Commonwealth Grants Comission , WA is still being shafted by the GSt, where their relativity index is still sitting 0.41

The ABS says that on a 5 year moving average,GST accounts for about 4.1% of total taxation revenue, slightly ahead of the 3.9% of revenue for all states payroll tax.
Mick

 

[PZ99]

I just had a quick look at the figures for Victoria.
Vics share of GST was 17billion
The total income ex GST was 19.6 billion.
Stamp duty accounted for 6.4 billion, and payroll tax accounted for 7 billion.

Not sure what you mean there,

According to Commonwealth Grants Comission , WA is still being shafted by the GSt, where their relativity index is still sitting 0.41

View attachment 137176
The ABS says that on a 5 year moving average,GST accounts for about 4.1% of total taxation revenue, slightly ahead of the 3.9% of revenue for all states payroll tax.
Mick

What I mean is the feds did a deal with WA to keep their GST distribution at no less than 70c in the dollar. (soon to 75c I think...)

It didn't require the other states to agree to it. It just happened. It's actually a triumph for the Morrison Govt which I'm sure they'll remind us about in the next few months

So they should be able to follow a similar path with payroll tax.

That Stamp duty income for vic looks a bit low... did they waive it for first home buyers or something ?


Irrespective of the figures... the fed Govt does have the power to compensate the states if they abolish payroll tax. Yes, it's expensive but then my original point was about massive tax reforms to stimulate investment as opposed to taking a position of austerity by attacking vulnerable groups of people.

Personally, I think we would've been better off if the Turnbull Govt had stayed in power for another term.

 

[sptrawler]

I'm with you @PZ99 , due to Australia's diminishing workforce, which will accelerate as technology, AI and robotics increase, the whole tax system needs to be re configured to suit the new paradigm.
I don't think the basic structure of the system, where personal income tax is the backbone of the model, is going to be fit for purpose in the years to come.

 

[mullokintyre]

So why not go back to the original model of the GST where EVERYTHING contracted a consumption tax, and while they are at it, increase it to 15%, and get rid of ALL state taxes. as well as income tax.
Put the tax pn food health etc like it was originally planned.
Penioners and others on low income don't pay for 90% of their health related costs anyway, so won't affect them.
Get rid of company tax and all its complexities, so that every company that does business here pays 15% of their turnover in Tax.
None of this transfer pricing bull****, intercompany loans into low tax off shore havens etc.
Use part of the extra income to compensate the lower third of citizens on the income scale.
You cannot use artificial mechanisms to avoid a consumption tax unless you work in the black market cash system.
It would allow those army of workers at the tax office to work on the black market system.
There, problem solved.
Mick

 

[PZ99]

Sounds good.

How much is the income tax revenue ?
How much would a 15% GST generate ?

 

[sptrawler]

Sounds good.

How much is the income tax revenue ?
How much would a 15% GST generate ?

I think the GST will have to be higher than 15%, but time will tell.
As I said a couple of years ago, NIDS is the elephant in the room, I can't wait to see the latest figures.
In Mandurah they are going to have to put in dedicated gopher tracks, the amount of gophers on the footpaths is out of control, my guess is NDIS is funding it.
The MIL was looking at buying a new gopher, there appears to be an NDIS price and a private buyer price, I'm not sure which is higher.

 

[PZ99]

You need a rat test to qualify for a gopher

 

[SirRumpole]

"
Get rid of company tax and all its complexities, so that every company that does business here pays 15% of their turnover in Tax.
None of this transfer pricing bull****, intercompany loans into low tax off shore havens etc.
"

Well worth considering.

 

[mullokintyre]

Sounds good.

How much is the income tax revenue ?
How much would a 15% GST generate ?

Kinda hard to say as it does not say whether things like capital gains, FBT , are included and where.
If we add 50% increase to the GST, and include all the items that are currently tax free, you could well get there.
Need acess to some treasury and ATO data that is not available to us mere mortals.
Mick

 

[mullokintyre]

One of my acquantance, a died in the wool National Party supporter, sent this to me.
He's doomed .

Mick

 

[Joe Blow]

ok boomer! you either listen to to much ABC or SKY
well thats labors current line.
secondly why is it australias responsibility to bring 3rd worlds out of povity why cant they get there **** together?
why did we have to sell our sovereignty out for this?
what future do our kids have?
our standarded of living is declining not encreasing. cost of living is sky rocketing, house prices and no wage growth as its all controlled and manuplited from over seas
garbage gough and bobby whorke introduce this globalist scam where multinationals set up off shore companied and pay little tax then ship jobs off shore to 3rd world companies at the expense of there incompetence and shite cultures for not being able to modernize from being a 3rd world **** hole.
i mean large populated countries should be able to do this far easier!

the same has happened over seas!
so what happens over the next decade and on for Australia?
the younger generations and beyone?

im mean thery thing communism is a good idea and lean to the left & history shows what happens then!

yes globalization and communism was invented by the same people! and the most stupidist of people go along with it!
lenin called you lot "useful idiots!"

you ever wonder why the world hates Putin for being a nationalist?

Firstly, tone down the insults. They are not necessary.

Secondly, all your political posts are starting to sound the same and they are riddled with spelling errors. We get the point. It's all the globalists and the zionists and the leftists fault. Perhaps you should consider posting in threads other than political ones, because these kind of unhinged rants are getting tedious and repetitive. You've made your point, once was enough.

 

[mullokintyre]

Janet Albrechtson is one of the better writers around, and like myself a small "l" liberal, which means youget abused by both sides of politics.
Today, in one paragraph writing in the Australian, she summed up all that is wrong with Scott Morrison.

When Morrison describes the aspirations of Australians, it’s like reading a Hallmark card. He never braves the harder stuff, the values a democracy depends on to function. Truth be told, I can’t work out what values excite him politically. Except winning. In some ways he’s the Liberal Party’s Kevin Rudd, only less annoying.

Trouble is, what replaces him is no less depressing and comes with just as much baggage.
Mick

 

[SirRumpole]

Janet Albrechtson is one of the better writers around, and like myself a small "l" liberal, which means youget abused by both sides of politics.
Today, in one paragraph writing in the Australian, she summed up all that is wrong with Scott Morrison.

Trouble is, what replaces him is no less depressing and comes with just as much baggage.
Mick

Do you mean Albanese or Morrison's Liberal Party enemies (sorry, colleagues).

 

[wayneL]

Do you mean Albanese or Morrison's Liberal Party enemies (sorry, colleagues).

It's a no win, either way

 

[Tisme]

View attachment 137185
Kinda hard to say as it does not say whether things like capital gains, FBT , are included and where.
If we add 50% increase to the GST, and include all the items that are currently tax free, you could well get there.
Need acess to some treasury and ATO data that is not available to us mere mortals.
Mick

Comparing as % to GDP/capita (in US$) year on year reveals some truths about personal income tax