The ScoMo Government

[sptrawler]

Well I hope your grandkids turn out real smart or otherwise you’ll be explaining why you continued to vote for a party that erodes work place conditions and promotes zero wage growth.
“Grandad what are penalty rates”
GO TO YOUR ROOM

That's a lot better, than at 40 years old having the value of your house in Perth, drop another 35%.
But hey everyone lives their own belief's, I'm not criticising your choices, humour me with mine.
I've lived my life and am making decisions on my experiences, you will do the same.
By the way, I and many my age lived through negative wage growth, but you wouldn't be interested in that.
What are penalty rates, well they are what I went on strike for, same as living away from home allowance, leave loading, site allowances.
You know the things you get, to achieve your $250k a year and allow you to vote Labour, so they could take $6k off me.
Yep good old look after those, who looked after you. Magic

Hopefully Albo can turn it around, because rusted on $250k workers are dying out.

 

[IFocus]

Talking of conspiracies


Who Pays: should ordinary taxpayers foot the bill for bushfires or the fossil fuel giants who pay no tax?
by Michael West -- 7 January 2020 -- Energy, Featured


Five of Australia’s top coal companies – Peabody, Yancoal Sumitomo, Citic and Whitehaven – racked up $54 billion in total income over the past five years and paid zero income tax in Australia, according to Tax Office corporate tax data. Fossil fuel companies should foot the bill for the fires, not ordinary taxpayers. Michael West reports.

As bushfires rage across the country, further igniting the acrimonious debate over climate change, the Insurance Council of Australia says the NSW Emergency Services Levy may raise premiums on households by 25% and businesses by up to 50%.

Like ordinary taxpayers, giant fossil fuel companies are protected by firefighters. They too enjoy access to and the protection of the law. They are big users of this country’s legal system. Their executives too drive on Australia’s roads.

Their children go to school here, their plants consume huge amounts of water, they enjoy the diesel fuel subsidy, they like ordinary taxpayers are protected by Australia’s armed forces and police.

They are effectively subsidised, heavily subsidised by ordinary taxpayers although they return little or nothing by way of income tax.


https://www.michaelwest.com.au/who-...y-no-tax/?mc_cid=ae6bf89e83&mc_eid=7935c92ad0

 

[Smurf1976]

It's just that we are paying for all the change through taxes rather than setting up a market to let the private sector sort it out that slows us down so much.

The problem with the market we’ve got is that it’s based heavily on ideology and ignores who the real competitors are.

In the real world it’s not AGL versus Origin, it’s Australia versus others especially USA, Canada, Russia, South Africa and on a smaller scale a few others like Iceland.

There are exceptions but broadly speaking the Australian industry is lacking that international focus and doesn’t co-operate well with “rival” companies to drive costs down and remain competitive. The ACCC and the ideologically driven laws it enforces are a major hurdle there - we’re simply too small to achieve economies of scale without “rival” companies co-operating.

The focus needs to be Australia and its position relative to others not this silly internal stuff.

 

[Smurf1976]

Well I hope your grandkids turn out real smart or otherwise you’ll be explaining why you continued to vote for a party that erodes work place conditions and promotes zero wage growth

Trouble is, in different ways both major parties are eroding the conditions of the working class. To the extent there’s a difference it comes down to the detail, what jobs or what age and so on, but both are going in the same overall direction of creating a two class society - a handful of rich and everyone else.

 

[Humid]

Tony Rabbit gets in bingo RC into unions.....cmon
Cut penalty rates forpeeps who probably need it the most
Integrity Bill the press rolling up before the cops....it keeps going mate
You would remember the days when projects over ran budget and time were blamed on industrial actions?
You don’t hear that anymore but every job still runs over
You want a real 2tier society get rid of unions and there’s only one party doing that and it’s the one that’s been in power for the last 6 years

 

[IFocus]

Trouble is, in different ways both major parties are eroding the conditions of the working class. To the extent there’s a difference it comes down to the detail, what jobs or what age and so on, but both are going in the same overall direction of creating a two class society - a handful of rich and everyone else.

Disagree Smurf Labors policys going into the last election advantaged the lower and middle income earners over all, funding changes that would also flow back into health and education for the same groups.

As Humid points out the Coalition have gone after unions, anyone protesting, resisted changes to banking and financial institutions that all have against the ordinary man on the street.

We now have a do nothing government that concentrates on religious freedom rather than an national emergency......then taking holidays.

Now we all know that electorally it was a massive fail so maybe for the next election you could well be right

 

[Humid]

That's a lot better, than at 40 years old having the value of your house in Perth, drop another 35%.
But hey everyone lives their own belief's, I'm not criticising your choices, humour me with mine.
I've lived my life and am making decisions on my experiences, you will do the same.
By the way, I and many my age lived through negative wage growth, but you wouldn't be interested in that.
What are penalty rates, well they are what I went on strike for, same as living away from home allowance, leave loading, site allowances.
You know the things you get, to achieve your $250k a year and allow you to vote Labour, so they could take $6k off me.
Yep good old look after those, who looked after you. Magic

Hopefully Albo can turn it around, because rusted on $250k workers are dying out.

Ok Boomer
Mate the $250k left the building when your lot got in now it’s all flat rate no sickies,holidays nuttin!
Just the way their buddies in big business wanted it.
Did you read that Michael West article of who these clowns have running their offices?.
You always bring up going on strike for better conditions but guess what you old silver fox your lot made that illegal with massive draconian penalties including goal

 

[sptrawler]

Ok Boomer
Mate the $250k left the building when your lot got in now it’s all flat rate no sickies,holidays nuttin!
Just the way their buddies in big business wanted it.
Did you read that Michael West article of who these clowns have running their offices?.
You always bring up going on strike for better conditions but guess what you old silver fox your lot made that illegal with massive draconian penalties including goal

I was threatened with that and civil action on more than one occassion and we had the union organiser tell us that they wouldn't give us legal representation. That was when your mate Brian Burke was in office.

 

[Humid]

I was threatened with that and civil action on more than one occassion and we had the union organiser tell us that they wouldn't give us legal representation. That was when your mate Brian Burke was in office.

Where were you working when threatened with that?

 

[sptrawler]

Where were you working when threatened with that?

In a major Power Station, just checked up on my dates and Brian was another incident, the one I was refering to was when the wonderful Ms Lawrence was in.

 

[Humid]

Major or Muja

 

[orr]

The problem with the market we’ve got is that it’s based heavily on ideology and ignores who the real competitors are.


The focus needs to be Australia and its position relative to others not this silly internal stuff.

Adding to the points raised by 'Focus' There's nothing resembling a forward acting Industrial Policy on the Right side of Politics.
No Policy just the still stuck in the Backwoods Of the Ozarks Neo-Liberal Business knows Best.
No Idea other than Pay McKinsey Squillions so then when it goes t1ts up there's someone else to blame.
There's a huge shift in the worlds industrial structure happening now. And Morriscum and his pack of plonkers are doing everything they can to make sure Australia is on the wrong side of it. The stench of the consequences of fossil fuel interests fills the air And denudes our future.

 

[Smurf1976]

You would remember the days when projects over ran budget and time were blamed on industrial actions?
You don’t hear that anymore but every job still runs over
You want a real 2tier society get rid of unions and there’s only one party doing that and it’s the one that’s been in power for the last 6 years

I wouldn’t for a moment say that the Liberals have done the ordinary workers any good but to be fair, what has Labor really done or proposed to do in modern times?

Look how much manufacturing we’ve lost - that’s high wage jobs gone and replaced by things like tourism. Labor was no more effective at stopping that than Liberal, indeed Labor presided over much of the destruction many years ago.

Same could be said for the population growth obsession. Compare Sydney in 2020 with Sydney in 2000 - it’s hard to see how it’s benefiting the average person and both parties are pushing it.

In more recent times we’ve seen Liberals hit the mostly younger half with penalty rates and we’ve seen Labor propose hitting retirees via taxation. All aimed right at the middle class, those who work or worked and who aren’t rich, and of little or no concern to the rest.

And so on. Neither party is doing much to put the average person somewhere in the middle. Both will happily have you competing against cheap foreign competitors, priced out of housing and stuck in a low wage occupation.

 

[Smurf1976]

Disagree Smurf Labors policys going into the last election advantaged the lower and middle income earners over all, funding changes that would also flow back into health and education for the same groups.

They may have helped some in that group that’s true but that they went after middle class retirees, those who aren’t worth a fortune and aren’t reliant on welfare, was a definite factor in them losing the election.

They attacked the very group that most have an underlying aim to end up part of.

Meanwhile neither are paying more than lip service to the dumping of cheap goods from overseas and so on. Go to any supermarket and you can buy frozen vegetables grown in low wage countries if you so wish. Both parties waffle on about helping farmers but suggest we put a tax on such goods to even things up and watch them back away real quick lest it upsets their masters.

Liberal’s beholden to big business and Labor’s beholden to the globalists. Neither are doing much to ensure the employment of Aussies on $80K rather than sending the work to someone overseas on $20K hence the slow but relentless slide backwards for the middle class.

 

[SirRumpole]

If it wasn't for the unions Labor would not exist, and some of the unions have been downright criminal through the years eg Painters and Dockers.

However , well run unions are supposed to represent their members, usually low paid workers, so I'd prefer they have more say than those who represent a few company owners, most likely majority foreign owned who run a "rape and run" operation.

But those I just mentioned are the extremes, and very view politicians are around to represent the middle, ie those who just want to get along, get a good education and a good job and don't want to rabble rouse in a union or rip anyone off in a business.

Can anyone remember a government that represented those people ? Menzies perhaps or maybe Hawke/Keating who weren't all that keen on disruptive unions.

 

[Smurf1976]

But those I just mentioned are the extremes, and very view politicians are around to represent the middle, ie those who just want to get along, get a good education and a good job and don't want to rabble rouse in a union or rip anyone off in a business.

This.

If I’m rich or ripping someone off in order to become rich then the Liberals will be my friends.

If I’m on welfare or want to stir up trouble via certain unions then Labor likes me yes.

If I just want to get an education, work hard either as an employee or small business owner, buy a house, raise a family and in due course retire well then neither are overly interested.

They’ll either stand in the way of me being educated, allow cheap labour to compete against my employer or business, push housing out of reach and/or keep me working until literally the day I’m dead. Neither are my friend if I’m just an ordinary person living a normal life - otherwise known as the middle class. Both will be more than happy to tax me and ask for my vote however.

As an individual I basically despise Donald Trump but it’s not hard to see someone like that emerging in Australia. Someone promising a better deal for the mainstream and not seen as pandering to either extreme.

My concern, and I’ll admit that I’ve really only considered it seriously in fairly recent times, is that we’ll end up like France. An otherwise pleasant society in a wealthy and safe country where those in the middle feel they’ve been done over to the point of literally ending up with riots in the street.

Overall I’d still prefer Labor over Liberal at a broad level but some of the detail’s a very definite problem.

Neither got my first vote last election by the way.

 

[SirRumpole]

Overall I’d still prefer Labor over Liberal at a broad level but some of the detail’s a very definite problem.

I think it's pretty inevitable that Labor will move to the Right after the last election result. The results in Australia and Britain, albeit a very different set of circumstances indicates that people don't want a nanny State at the moment , however that could change if there is a serious recession with mass unemployment.

The bit where Labor have really failed imv was throwing a mining tax (recommended by Ken Henry) out the window. A great way to get revenue to start up modern industries without taxing the voters. Instead they decided to redistribute from one taxpaying class to another, so someone was going to be offended and it cost them.

I think Labor will be seriously considering a return of an RRT, but I don't think they will be making a big noise about it this time until after they win.

 

[Smurf1976]

I think Labor will be seriously considering a return of an RRT, but I don't think they will be making a big noise about it this time until after they win.

If people can see that a tax is part of some overall strategy and is being fairly collected then it’s more likely to be accepted by most.

For example everyone knows that smoking in bad for health and it is clearly also not essential. Nobody’s changing the government over it despite tobacco being the most highly taxed legal product.

In contrast it would be far more difficult to convince people that we’re going to put a tax on certain cars because we need the money. Then upon seeing the detail it’s a tax that applies to a Camry but which doesn’t apply to a Rolls Royce due to the detail of how it’s applied which is based on the dimensions of the headlights.

That won’t win much support, especially not if whoever’s proposing it defends it by saying that RR’s are typically bought by people who’ve already paid a lot of tax.

Etc. If there’s some explainable logic to it which seems reasonable and it’s done in a consistent manner, eg a tax on all cars or at least limited to those with some sensible defining characteristic eg price or size, then there’s far less likely to be any major opposition to it versus anything which targets something for no reason other than “just because”.

 

[orr]

I wouldn’t for a moment say that the Liberals have done the ordinary workers any good but to be fair, what has Labor really done or proposed to do in modern times?

I'd go a bit futher than 'no good' .

It wasn't Labour that squandered The Resources Boom.
There's modeling that puts the losses of the Carbon Price instituted and then poisoned by the LNP at $11 Billion to date. few jobs in that I'd suggest..
The LNP cannot get there own NEG through there Party Room.
The Economic Moron Morriscum maligns as a 'big Pineapple' the battery investment that now returns north of 30% ROI.
Refuses to take the advice of the Reserve Bank on the need to accelerate infrastuture spending.
The ICE engine is going the way of the Dinosaur And the Blathering Holidaying Disaster blind incompetent sees electric vehicles as Satans work.
Canavan wants your and my money spent on coal fired power plant.
The IPA, play thing of Gina Rinehart, and gold standard of LNP policy ideals would want what for the Australian worker??? here's one aspect 'A very short toothless retirement'

As we live and breath Gillard is saving countless million$$ and the lives and the standard thereof of thousands of workers through the implementation of Plain Packaging.

How many years in the last 25 have Labour been at the controls?

Ross Garnauts 'Super Power' for those that need a few hints.
Guaranteed to go unread by the clueless, two have adjoining seats in southern Sydney...Cook&Hughes what a tragic duo...
Mind you there's a bit of work to done now rebuilding a 'few' raised area's.
All aboard the The Morriscum Bus to the Venezuelian Colder-sac.
I'm off to bathe' in my Franking credits....

 

[Smurf1976]

How many years in the last 25 have Labour been at the controls?

Federally - mostly but not all Coalition governments during that time.

States - it varies. Some have been mostly Labor, some Liberal.

Reality though is that the decline set in well before 25 years ago. If you look at Australia versus the rest of the world then depending on what measure you consider, we peaked sometime during the period mid-1960's to late 1970's. Since that time we've quite literally dug ourselves a huge hole and given up on most other things.

A mining tax done sensibly would work wonders. The key is using it as a tool beyond simply a revenue measure.

Eg take the mine at Nhulunbuy as a classic example. Historically they mined the ore and processed the bauxite to alumina to be exported. Then, partly due to Australia's energy debacle but not entirely for that reason, the alumina plant was shut and now they just load the ore onto ships and that's it. If it were up to me then I'd give them a choice - no tax if you process it here (anywhere in any Australian state, no problem if they want to ship it somewhere to process as long as it's in Australia), big tax if you don't. Simple.

Do the same with the rest. No tax on iron ore and coal going into an Australian steel works. Big tax if they just export the coal and ore. Etc. Encourage things like the major expansion proposed for the works at Whyalla, increasing capacity to over 7 times the present production. That sure beats just loading ore onto boats.

The aim isn't to raise revenue but to wield the tax stick to bring about a far greater return on the mineral wealth of the nation. Ideally it won't collect a cent directly - if they process here and avoid it then that's precisely the desired outcome. Tax revenue then comes in indirectly via the broader economic benefits of that value adding.

Same with a lot of things. Use the tax stick to bring about broader development and encourage business to do things here not somewhere else.