Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

How effective is our Social Security System?

How would you rate our Social Security system in terms of its effectiveness?

  • 10

    Votes: 5 8.5%

  • 9

    Votes: 1 1.7%

  • 8

    Votes: 8 13.6%

  • 7

    Votes: 9 15.3%

  • 6

    Votes: 9 15.3%

  • 5

    Votes: 5 8.5%

  • 4

    Votes: 5 8.5%

  • 3

    Votes: 8 13.6%

  • 2

    Votes: 4 6.8%

  • 1

    Votes: 5 8.5%
  • Total voters
    59
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it is rife living on $270/wk, go to regional cities/town across Australia

they are very organised, multiple people in the one house. Yes they live a simple life, but they are happy. Trade goods, firewood, barter. Live with grandma

IMO social security works well for those people, someone with 100k, 300k or 700k probably in after tax savings is persecuted

not sure what all the workcover/insurance stuff is about.
 
You take them to FOS over the years with westpac, cba etc?

Everything at royal commiasion had already been at the regulators/fos/asic etc
 
The toll ...
it takes ... even doing the right thing ... for someone else let alone the injured or sick party is horrendous and extreme.

Yes I don't disagree maybe some ... a few are rorting the system. Other insurance sides swing from inane 500k payouts for a fake slip and fall to the other extreme. Public liability rates went insane not so long ago ... as a result. They then swung back to more sane cover.

Things go in cycles from too fair or open to being abused to in say ... TPD insurance or Workcover being so corrupt that protection for a genuine injury and support income and medical is likely to destroy the strongest of any of us. Lawyers, and NOT happy about insurance agent claims people and paid for medical insurance doctors and lawyers who are paid in the doctors case to deny all injuries and claim no disability to a man with NO fingers.

Tricky stuff ... Other side ... they have a role ... some idiot who earns 40k a year claiming 200 million for loosing a single finger absurd.

No fault, fair and impartial ... NO reward bonus for denial, penalty for outrageous denial to insurer and legal firms but FAIR impartial assessment NO fault and FIX and support verses the level this sick side is in for now with most injured workers. Much like say divorce, its NO fault. Who cares seriously who did what, its a slit of assets and income, and kids if needed. Who cheated on whom, is irrelevant whilst painful in the case of relationships, it comes down to splitting assets and support if kids involved till they are adults.

A bloody mess .... sadly the only winner is more than likely lawyers and they cannot ... in any of these things get emotionally involved or it would BREAK them, to have or place any caring and NOT serve their clients in any way. They need to be removed from anything other than the law and best result for their client. It is of course, NOT likely this occurs and few present a realistic cost to the client up front of a contested asset split of say 500k will likely cost 100 k or so in legal fees. All this out of their 250 k share. Costs rarely awarded to even the winner.

In say a sexual harassment case I am proud, as a non lawyer to have run this one. A record, but the average is about 50k or so one gets, even for a really bad one, or you get accepted to Federal court on 9 counts, you only run the very best of them, say 2-3 maybe there that your likely NOT to loose and god forbid you do because you pay their costs if you loose, so you may win 2 out of three, costs with barristers 100k to get maybe if its a big organization 200k awarded and they pay your costs but loose one side and your handed the whole bloody bill for 300k k and your 3 years of life latter out of pocket 100k.

Not being a lawyer, as such ... and NOT being allowed to represent anyone as a non lawyer in court without very good reason .... daunting. I might add NSW workcover tribunal does NOT even allow this. Only lawyers or injured even if clearly disabled allowed, no loved ones, family or lay workers allowed.

Far from perfect, far better than some ... but a lot of change needed for some sectors and in the case of divorce mediation and NO emotional tit for tat or revenge ,,, because its bloody pointless, the relationship is over ... needs some serious work and help to cut waiting times and what I would call a strong group of lawyers who are basically ambulance chasers.

Ahhh ... in a perfect world. No such thing .... not bad, some poor and it swings over time ... from one extreme to the other.
 
Toyota Lexcen said:
You take them to FOS over the years with westpac, cba etc?
Click to expand...

What a waste of space the govt bodies are. TOTAL. COMPLETE and utter jokes. ASIC APRA Ombusmen and so on.

You make the claim ,,, press it ... they deny it in TPD ... deny it again, you present more and more evidence backed up with multiple medical reports, pictures and so on, still denied. A person in a wheelchair no legs, quadriplegic TPD denied. Denied for 5 years, ASIC cant do a thing nor APRA nor Ombudsman or anyone.

Most claims go away .... deny 90% of them ... 50% of claims go away and give up in 12 months, 75% in 2-3 years and waves of lawyers and insurance doctors from the other side.

I found and find a scorched earth approach the only way. Formal complaints to ASIC and APRA over directs duties and under corporations act enforcement of the sham nature of the company. A case in federal court over the claim via say deliberate delay which is denial of justice asking for damages and extreme damages along with criminal charges for negligence against lawyers individually and law firms, for criminal negligence and removal from the bar, makes them blink. Denying the law, clearly broken in many cases, to deny paying a claim, even delaying it, is not just negligence once you point out the law and the signed evidence clearly the law was breached, it becomes willful negligence and so on.

Lawyers have their little club and no lawyer will do this. I am not a lawyer, just a buzzing noise they wonder about as their body parts seem to fall off.

One well funded private company, a $2- dollar company ... decided not to pay long service leave and underpay then sack a person. Fair Work useless ... in the end. It would have ended in Federal court. Long service leave a pillar of any employment contract which under Fair Work act the goverment , FEDERAL ... rules the roost, one of the pillars is you cant sack someone, demote or injure them. Even for long service leave. So someone not being credited with 15 years long service leave, not a lot .... in dollar terms about 3 months pay, or say $15k, employer denies it In NSW go to fair work commission they send you to the ombudsman then back and forth. Turns out In NSW its the Industrial relations commission. You go there, they still deny it .... length of service ,,,, you have to prove it ... all 15 years. All bank records back 15 years, impossible beyond 7, super records .... they work ... still denied.

This a well funded and smart arsed crook employer knows. Oh and 15 years of tax records supplied, investigated eventually taking 12 months NSW Industrial relations, the eventually admit they are powerless to act, all funding has been cut off. Even if it had NOT since you did not have every single pay slip for 15 years, but tax records and Super ... but only 7 out of 15 year bank statements without 100% of every pay slip ... even if they HAD funding they would NOT proceed on your behalf. Your instructed to go to local small claims or County court with 2,000 pages of evidence over a 15 k debt. the other side, thinking it would evaporate and using lawyers, its l ready cost them 50k in legal fees.

In the court, if you have the stamina, and most don't, it just not worth it, the case eventually when heard will take 30 seconds for the judge to decide YES you worked there clearly for 15 years. Use a lawyer yourself ? for this .... .... you loose 100 k .... in this case, and they annoyed a local court judge who got so annoyed it went to the next level up as he was about to go berserk for their tactics, it took 18 months, i suspect 200k in legal fees as the directors outside the company lost any protection as they were acting outside the law .... all over 15k !!

Few would do this, I sadly did for a poor person screwed so hard ... by some cretins. It took a toll on them ... their lives and so too for me. Time freely and given ... without regret. The toll for me was a side of humanity I despise. I would have let it go but it was mingled with other issues of getting other much needed medical and in a nightmare. I suppose I spent 100o plus hours of legal alone on this let alone emotional support.

Such is life, payback is a bitch ... not for me ... not even the cost inflicted which never crossed my mind till long after it. It was about right and wrong and getting help for an injured person as silly as this sounds.

Beware of the whole process and justice side of it. Few winners, if any, no matter which way one goes.
 
I am not suggesting they are NOT far.

However a crooked employer refusing to accept recommendations or even mediation, then it becomes a show of legal avenues which are as I set out, well known and used as tactics. Few have the stamina or pure insanity to pursue.

Fair work, if your being underpaid for the job, or paid less for doing a job DO not ever pay out or cover, only venue is federal court. Same for any case involving being sacked unfairly to discourage a claim, you need to go to court, yourself or with lawyer and Federal courts are even scarier than most others for non lawyers.

In the meantime, branded a trouble maker, no job, reputation destroyed, future prospects gone .... it is what it is.

I suspect for most employers if they have made a mistake, then pointed out by Fair Work rectify the issue with back pay. Some and quite a few do NOT. Ratio is unknown but quite large once a crook knows the system or can dictate via threats and even dismissal ... another issue.

NSW workcover for example is your best friend ... yet denies close to 100% of some types of injuries after 3 months. I do not dispute for 90% of injuries they involve a few weeks off work and say a broken arm and pay. For a more serious injury, its really another matter. Your in a wheelchair, video of crane falling on you .... not your fault ... it happened at work ,,, and irrelevant whos fault it is in this case, as its about being taken care of ... claim is denied.

Simple stuff ... fine ... if its going to cost 100k or 30 years of medical and financial support good luck.

It depends on a lot of things of course. But ... they are sympathetic and nice, helpful .... all of them but in reality in a lot of cases, empty bureaucratic offices with no power or WILL or legal power to enforce.

Sure there is the law, they are meant to be enforcing but in say sexual discrimination via pay for a woman doing a job of a man being paid 25% more for the identical job alongside her, in fact the woman doing 150% of the role for 75% the cost, fair work WILL NOT and does not enforce the Fair Work act in that section and sends you to the court. They MAY inquire, the employer usually denies it, even big ones and then ... its sadly courts or give up ... or new job .... or fight.

Same and similar for say unfair dismissal or underpaid stuff .... if mediation is ignored, it will NOT be enforced or even recommendations being allowed to enter court. A waste of time against crook employers or even bigger ones who have many issues along similar lines and a lot to potentially loose via 100 or more claims.
 
not sure what you going on about, the social security is effective for certain people. and severely punishers others who contribute a lot to the country
 
Toyota Lexcen said:
severely punishers others who contribute a lot to the country
Click to expand...

I am well off. Am I being punished for paying tax ?

I presume u mean Punished rather than .... Punishers ... the new title for a Marvel Movie ?

Am I being severely punished for paying close to 50% in tax ? It is called a progressive tax system and as opposed to say Bill Gates merely declaring 10% of his income and paying 12% on that.

Nop healthcare. Little welfare and food stamps at $150 per month even hard to get, unemployment runs out after 6 moths.

I prefer to be punished ... a bit ... for the utopia we live in. Not perfect. O prefer not to pay $1000 for a broken arm ... v Medicare here free is you not well off.

Sorry do not agree. I am sadly human.
 
ok great

yes the social security is effective for the bludgers,

i have ads going for jobs all the time, they call, claim they can do the work, i then try to engage them and they never respond, just filling out the forms for Newstart Allowance

yet the guy who has the mortgage, some savings in the bank can ring and turn up, they can get up in the morning and find a job as they get zero support until they spend all of their cash.
 
Toyota Lexcen said:
ok great

yes the social security is effective for the bludgers,

i have ads going for jobs all the time, they call, claim they can do the work, i then try to engage them and they never respond, just filling out the forms for Newstart Allowance

yet the guy who has the mortgage, some savings in the bank can ring and turn up, they can get up in the morning and find a job as they get zero support until they spend all of their cash.
Click to expand...

That's a Kroc. It's something like $300,000 in cash before your Dole is effected. I know because when some idiots starting firing bullets a few weeks ago I thought the Dole might be a safer career choice

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/in.../how-much-you-can-get/income-and-asset-limits
 
thats right, if you have 300000 (couple) and over you dont get it, and if you get dividends over 500/wk or something you dont get it

yes spend your cash and you will get it

think of a divorced woman, just got property settlement and sitting on 300-400k, has to get back into the work force, bad luck
 
Last edited:
Toyota Lexcen said:
thats right, if you have 300000 and over you dont get it, and if you get dividends over 500/wk or something you dont get it

yes spend your cash and you will get it

think of a divorced woman, just got property settlement and sitting on 300-400k, has to get back into the work force, bad luck
Click to expand...

Having over $300,000 in cash is hardly "spending all your cash" as you put it.

Newstart needs to be raised - Companies need to pay their share of Tax.
 
lots who share houses, get community houses, live with parents, uncles grandmas etc

they do very well,

what experience do you have with unemployed people?
 
Toyota Lexcen said:
lots who share houses, get community houses, live with parents, uncles grandmas etc

they do very well,

what experience do you have with unemployed people?
Click to expand...

You do realise a lot of damaged people are damaged due to a family situation or the lack of having a good family.

You bundle everyone under some umbrella of Dole bludger. Were you abused as a child? Have you suffered great illness or injustice? Perhaps have some compassion for those suffering due to no fault of their own.
 

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