Boeing 737 Max: Death Aircraft

[Garpal Gumnut]

May I ask all ASF members to avoid flying on Boeing 737 Max, if it is ever re-introduced into Australia.

I would also advise this if you are flying overseas particularly in the USA.

The existing Boeing 737's now being flown in Australia are safe.

Absolutely safe.

As a child I flew on a Comet which was unknown to the "experts" at the time, a dangerous aircraft.

My parents told me that a flight a day later would have cost me my life. While this may be of comfort to some, for me it is a reminder of the dangers of air transport.

Many years later I also happened to travel the same flight path as the "Lockerbie Atrocity" one week prior, though on Delta.

So it may be down to luck.

But you can minimise your chances of an adverse outcome.

gg

 

[tech/a]

9/11
Was booked on a flight from Washington to L/A
Connecting back to Aust
On exactly the same flight that hit the deck before getting back to Washington
Only that it was the day after!

We had cancelled our trip due to business commitments 3 mths before we were due to leave
And only knew when I checked the flight after it happened
I knew it was close to our booked flight.

Even though luck on our side.
I’ve done well over 300 flights and love it from Single engine to
A380s we are very lucky to be able to fly the world.

I’d rather fall out of the sky than take years to die of Cancer or Altzhimers

 

[DB008]

Your late to the party and lost the plot GP. I could list a number of aircraft models that have had issues in the past too...

Boeing has said that they will do a software patch/update soon that will fix the MCAS system.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Your late to the party and lost the plot GP. I could list a number of aircraft models that have had issues in the past too...

Boeing has said that they will do a software patch/update soon that will fix the MCAS system.

Before this Boeing debacle I probably would have agreed with you.

However the The National Transport Safety Bureau ( NTSB ) in the USA has colluded with Boeing in agreeing that the 737 Max should fly in the USA when all other countries had grounded those planes.

Thus there is a conflict between safety and the commercial needs of the Boeing Corporation.

I know for a fact that this has diminished the credibility of the NTSB.

Over a day later Boeing grounded all the 737 Max.

The problem with the Boeing 737 Max is not a software problem.

It is a simple weight to pitch problem, whereby bigger engines have made the aircraft more difficult to control on takeoff and software has been deficient in remediating this.

It is not a party mate.

People have died.

Due to an attempt to continually update a model of aircraft beyond it's capabilities.

I would bet London to a brick that you will never see the Boeing 737 Max with it's so-called MACS ever take to the sky again.

gg

 

[So_Cynical]

The below video gives a great though complex explanation of what the hell happened, its well worth the 24 minutes, after watching its near impossible not to think Boeing Fu**ed up big time, the engines are just to big to fit under the wing resulting in the MCAS software fix to keep the nose down but hey lets just use one of the 2 angle of attack sensors and make the warning software an optional extra.

This has to cost Boeing billions.
~

 

[bigdog]

Boeing decided to put on the too-big engines anyway! The new engines wouldn’t fit under the old wings

they came up with a cockpit warning light that would alert the pilots if the plane’s two angle-of-attack sensors disagreed.

But then, as Jon Ostrower reported for the Air Current, Boeing’s team decided to make the warning light an optional add-on, like how car companies will upcharge you for a moon roof.

The light cost $80,000 extra per plane and neither Lion Air nor Ethiopian chose to buy it

the FAA delegated crucial evaluations of the 737’s safety to Boeing itself.

Detailed article worth reading

The emerging 737 Max scandal, explained
It’s more than bad software.
https://www.vox.com/business-and-finance/2019/3/29/18281270/737-max-faa-scandal-explained

 

[Boggo]

This goes back to the FAA certifying individual components as they are built and added to the 737 rather than re-certifying the complete machine.

This aircraft was first certified in 1967 and is now a completely different machine which most likely would now fail certification if they applied the same process that is applied to new Airbus aircraft by the FAA.

The 50 plus years of adding bits to this initial aircraft build in attempting to keep pace with the European technology is the issue here.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

We are now seeing the beginning of the end of production of the Boeing 737 Max.


https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019...ke-of-two-deadly-crashes/10978296?pfmredir=sm

Cutting production by 120 planes a year takes 20% from their bottom line on sales alone not to mention r n d people who will walk or retire and ancillary suppliers who will cut their losses.

If you hold Boeing it may be worthwhile to consider selling.

I will never ever fly on a Max.

gg

 

[SirRumpole]

I'm sure the lawyers are sharpening their class action pens right now.

This is going to cost Boeing heaps, but they are too big to fail and they know it.

Some company execs should go to gaol though.

 

[Value Collector]

While this is bad for business, I actually don’t think it is fatal for the 737- max program.

If anything this will probably make the plane safer than any of its competitors over time.

Look at what happened to the dc10, it’s one of the safest planes in history even though it had a troubled start.

And I don’t think this 737 problem is unsolvable, they will work through it, long term it will be seen as a speed bump.

 

[Value Collector]

We are now seeing the beginning of the end of production of the Boeing 737 Max.


https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019...ke-of-two-deadly-crashes/10978296?pfmredir=sm

Cutting production by 120 planes a year takes 20% from their bottom line on sales alone not to mention r n d people who will walk or retire and ancillary suppliers who will cut their losses.

If you hold Boeing it may be worthwhile to consider selling.

I will never ever fly on a Max.

gg

It cuts sales by 20% for that one model.

Not 20% for the company, they are still making plenty of other models, and have contracts for military planes, helicopters, rockets and satilites etc etc.

————-

Consider their competitor airbus who is in the process of canceling the A380 aircraft, that is a huge blow to the company, but it won’t kill them.

The duopoly of Boeing and airbus is bigger than any single model.

 

[Value Collector]

The dc10 story.

 

[SirRumpole]

And I don’t think this 737 problem is unsolvable, they will work through it, long term it will be seen as a speed bump.

I wonder how different your comments would be if you lost family members on the aircraft.

 

[Value Collector]

I wonder how different your comments would be if you lost family members on the aircraft.

Don’t interpret my comments on the business side of things as meaning I don’t have empathy for those affected by the disaster, ofcourse I do, but that’s a separate thing.

It is a human tragedy for sure, I am not trying to down play that at all.

All I am saying is that the problem with he aircraft is not a problem that can’t be fixed, aircraft have had issues that lead to deaths in the past, and there have had minor fixes and later become some of the best safety records.

I think it’s way to early to suggest that the 737max program will fail.

 

[SirRumpole]

Don’t interpret my comments on the business side of things as meaning I don’t have empathy for those affected by the disaster, ofcourse I do, but that’s a separate thing.

It is a human tragedy for sure, I am not trying to down play that at all.

All I am saying is that the problem with he aircraft is not a problem that can’t be fixed, aircraft have had issues that lead to deaths in the past, and there have had minor fixes and later become some of the best safety records.

I think it’s way to early to suggest that the 737max program will fail.

That ' s all true. I'd like to see the Boeing execs set an example by making sure they travel on the aircraft after the mods.

 

[Value Collector]

That ' s all true. I'd like to see the Boeing execs set an example by making sure they travel on the aircraft after the mods.

Good idea, load the board of directors on the plane and do a global tour with press conferences on every continent.

I won’t hesitate to fly on a 737 max in the future once this is all over with, I have a lot of confidence in sir crash investigators to get to the bottom of things, and for the right fixes to be made.

That’s why airtravel is safer than driving on the freeway.

 

[So_Cynical]

I think it’s way to early to suggest that the 737max program will fail.

The 737 is a 50 year old aircraft - the max is a failure.

 

[Knobby22]

Good idea, load the board of directors on the plane and do a global tour with press conferences on every continent.

I won’t hesitate to fly on a 737 max in the future once this is all over with, I have a lot of confidence in sir crash investigators to get to the bottom of things, and for the right fixes to be made.

That’s why airtravel is safer than driving on the freeway.

I hate how it appears to be a software fix to a hardware design problem.
It will be very interesting how the air crash investigations go.

 

[Macquack]

That’s why airtravel is safer than driving on the freeway.

I will take my chances on the freeway before I would board a 737 max 8.

 

[Value Collector]

The 737 is a 50 year old aircraft - the max is a failure.

Let’s look back on it in 3 years.

My bet is they are still making the aircraft in 3 years.