Gambling and Trading

[waza1960]

Would like to know from fellow members if any are gamblers and thoughts on such.I like playing Blackjack and enjoy playing as long as I don't lose quickly.You could say that traders with a (hopefully)enhanced view on odds and percentages may avoid gambling i.e the house always wins or on the other hand its possible that a lot of traders also gamble and experience similar highs and lows to trading.I have gambled for 15 years mainly Blackjack and play $10 tables don't spend anymore than$250/night and go on average of once a month.Enjoy watching the other people at the table win or lose and enjoy the discipline of only spending a set amount.

 

[Slothhead]

One of the issues here is in the definitions of each word.

Gambling is generally defined as taking a chance, in the aim of winning money etc.

Trading is the buying and selling of a "thing" in order to make profit.

As such, I personally feel there is a intrinsic difference among the two.

Gambling pays odds, i.e. a potential level of return, these are never in your favour.

If you are in a Casino, the best odds you have are probably on the black jack table, so long as you can count cards. But counting into 6 or 8 decks obviously is extremely difficult. Playing staight strategy, you can get your ods down to 0.61% against you.

Pai Gow, is also very good odds, but again requires knowledge of strategy.

There are no Casino games that are even, otherwise they wouldnt bother.

Notice i havent mentioned Poker at all. Since this is not played against the casino, is a game of skill and your pay out is determined by play, not by chance, i think this would be ranked in a different category.

There are a great many similarities between a professionaly poker player and an equity or FX etc trader.

All professionals will have a system that they work to and live by religiously. They will all have excellent money management skills and risk management skills. (If they didnt they wouldnt last too long).

So, I guess what i am trying to say, is that gambling is gambling. You are "punting" in hope that something will work out. i.e. you have a 3:1 chance of winning 3:1 of your money. etc,

Trading on the other hand is totally different. You enter into a trade with prior knowledge of the market (hence the counting cards in BJ) and you anticipate a certain move in the market with a particular strategy. If this strategy at this time moves against you, you are able to minimise your loss. If it moves against you, there is a whole new plan that you move into.

If you are wrong in Gambling, you are wrong and you lose. There is no Stop loss on the Roulette table.

Sorry for the length

D

 

[falconx]

I think you can play $60 no limit texas holdem at crown but you have to give the house $5 every hour. Does anyone play casino wars? Its basicly high card wins, I was just wondering what the house advantage would be with that? In theory would be 50/50 unless the deck was rigged or not? But they got to pay the dealer somehow, anyone know what makes it profitable for them?

 

[Slothhead]

Holdem is in a different category, as you arent playing against the house, they merely do it as a service.

Thus they take a bit of money every hour, supply you drinks and food, and hope that you wander over and play something else

I havent played Casino Wars, so dont really know anything about it

 

[TheAbyss]

Just spent 14 nights on a cruise ship and played blackjack for at least 2 hours most nights. Consider myself very fortunate to walk out ahead thanks to a great run last night which culminated with a blackjack with maximum bet ($300) at 4 am.

Lucks a fortune sometimes. Havent played for several years prior to that due to an addictive personality.

 

[2020hindsight]

lol - same reason I dont go to the casino - I have these theories which look great on paper but never / rarely seem to work ( eg 0.5% casino advantage for craps pass line with twice odds bet) - amazing how fast you can lose lol.

But what I really wanted to say concerns ... e-trading and - speaking of corrupt croupiers - e.g.

Yesterday I placed a sell order at lunch ( was busy all afternoon) - "At Limit, Good Until Sold" with directshares. This morning at 8.30am I cancelled it.

Then I check tonight and find that about half of them were sold anyway ?? ( allegedly before they could cancel the order I guess )??

And surprise surprise, that share went up 5% at opening lol. I probably lost about $100 (only) but it's the bludy principle. !

I would love to open a thread called "Suspect E-Broker Tactics" or similar - for discussion if others are interested

I'm told it's particularly blatant for CFD's for instance. - where you can't challenge the rates they allegedly sell or buy at on your behalf - no recourse. !!

Sounds like a licence to print money to me.

 

[explod]

I trade with a set of rules which involves both technical and fundamental criteria and which I suspect is the norm. However sometimes I find some of my best results have come from going with the momentum of the market and falling back on intuition. (Which I suppose is really no more than all of your experience equals instinct)

My recreational outlet is roulette and after five years of working on the game find that similar strategies to that of trading brings success more often than not. After a lot of observation, charting, reading all the books etc I have found a physical aspect to the roulette wheel and to the individual styles of croupiers (or shooters as I think of them) have exploitable trends and biases........... The point,?????? effort, thought and persistance equals success in all fields bar none

 

[2020hindsight]

..However sometimes I find some of my best results have come from going with the momentum

My recreational outlet is roulette and after five years of working on the game find that similar strategies to that of trading brings success more often than not.

Not sure I agree with ALL your comments explod , but I do agree with "when you're in luck you can't put a foot wrong",
"when you're hot you're hot, and when you're not you're not" as they say.

Jonathan Swift :- "I must admit the cards are ill-shuffled , until I get a good hand "
Bat Masterson :- "There are many in this world who hold that things break about equal for all of us. I have observed for example that we all get the same amount of ice. The rich get it in summertime, and the poor get it in winter"

I play backgammon a bit on the net, study the hell out of it - even read books lol - real books! with paper pages !! - and I find that the best moves? are when the mouse slips lol

 

[waza1960]

good comments. I think there are some similarities with gambling and trading as far as pyschology and discipline relating to money and risk management. Also you can learn a lot about human nature re oneself and watching others

 

[Stinger]

The house has the advantage in casino war if you draw the same card as the dealer. In this case you go head to head. You must double your initial bet, ie if you bet $50 you must put down another $50. The dealer then deals you a card and then a card for the house.

If you win you only win your initial bet back ie $50, but if you lose you lose the full amount ie $100.

You can however choose not to go head to head in which case the house keeps half of your initial bet ie $25.

I am a roulette player though, prefer the longer odds for a higher return.

 

[basilio]

Ever wondered what would happen if you became quite savvy with your gambling and was a regular winner? Could be a nice little earner where you make a graceful living on your gambling smarts.

Dream on folks.. Do you think the bookies are actually going to let you be a consistent winner ?

How betting agencies restrict punters who win too often or too much
Punters and anti-gambling advocates have hit out at betting agencies for restricting or shutting down the accounts of people who win too often.

Key points:

• Punters detail how operators restrict or shut them down
• Betting agencies labelled "immoral and predatory"
• Calls for universal minimum bet laws

In a little-known strategy to prevent paying out too much to the same winning punters, operators simply restrict how much they can bet or close them down altogether.

There is nothing illegal about it and the right to do it is written into agencies' terms and conditions, but anti-gambling advocates say such conduct is unethical and should be illegal.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-20/gambling-how-bookmakers-stop-winning-betters/10708394

 

[Skate]

Ever wondered what would happen if you became quite savvy with your gambling and was a regular winner? Could be a nice little earner where you make a graceful living on your gambling smarts.

Dream on folks.. Do you think the bookies are actually going to let you be a consistent winner ?

How betting agencies restrict punters who win too often or too much
Punters and anti-gambling advocates have hit out at betting agencies for restricting or shutting down the accounts of people who win too often.

Key points:

• Punters detail how operators restrict or shut them down
• Betting agencies labelled "immoral and predatory"
• Calls for universal minimum bet laws

In a little-known strategy to prevent paying out too much to the same winning punters, operators simply restrict how much they can bet or close them down altogether.

There is nothing illegal about it and the right to do it is written into agencies' terms and conditions, but anti-gambling advocates say such conduct is unethical and should be illegal.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-20/gambling-how-bookmakers-stop-winning-betters/10708394

basilio, as a registered bookmaker for over 14 years & my brother a professional gambler for the past 47 years I want to say that most commentator sometimes gets some of the story correct but most times they don't understand the industry.

I not making a comment about your post but I would like to make a few general comments from my perspective.

As with trading, bookmaking isn't gambling it's a numbers game, it mathematics '101'

There is price variations going on all the time & its not to restrict a particular gambler but to balance the ledger. (gamblers are our customers)

The punter
The punter places his bet, backs a runner then hopes/prays/wishers for the best.

The Bookmaker
Its fast, it furious, complicated mental mathematical multiplication then you apply that answer & add back the original stake & write the result on a betting ticket all in the blink of an eye whilst calling out the calculations to a clerk to be penciled in to the ledger. (Adrenalin rush was exciting)

The mental gymnastics correlating the entire book was demanding but it was a required skill to evaluate the risk/reward & how each runner affected the outcome.

This is also posted in the 'Dump it here' thread

Skate.

 

[SirRumpole]

Casinos have been throwing out problem gamblers (those who win too much money) for decades.

I wonder what Lotto would do if someone kept winning that.

 

[qldfrog]

https://www.news.com.au/finance/mon...a/news-story/eb0d530ec18edae691aa9a1d33bdcc59
Please note the term used: "investors"
I understand casino gambling especially in term of laundering, but investing in loto tickets