The Copenhagen Agreement - Australia to lose sovereignty?
- Thread starter Fishbulb
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They will be relieved of the responsibility of controlling their own future.
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amongst other positives, it will cost a heap more to get on board this ship later than if we get on board now.
prawn_86
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What other positives can you see 2020?
only if you can pick your exit correctly. carbon trading will go like all the other scams..
the elite get in early (they create it) the sheep buy in and inflate the bubble, the elite sell out on top......then the bubble bursts.
and then they start another scam. super anyone?
And it will be hell of a lot cheaper if we dont get onboard at all.
wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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It's the wrong ship.
Rudd's hidden agenda is to become President of the UN.
He would sell out Australia to get his wish.
Rudd with a pen in his hand in Copenhagen is toxic.
Remember this guy is a bully, a spin doctor and a spender.
Those who felt sorry for the Aborigines being taken over by the Europeans 200 odd years ago may get this experience first hand.
So far 62pct of Australians love Rudd.
Soon 100pct will hate him but its too late.. he will President of the UN living in exile.
He would sell out Australia to get his wish.
Rudd with a pen in his hand in Copenhagen is toxic.
Remember this guy is a bully, a spin doctor and a spender.
Those who felt sorry for the Aborigines being taken over by the Europeans 200 odd years ago may get this experience first hand.
So far 62pct of Australians love Rudd.
Soon 100pct will hate him but its too late.. he will President of the UN living in exile.
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perhaps I should define "later"
That is when the denialists are forced to admit they are wrong.
say in 5 years or so.
Like ... when Andrew Bolt says the world ('s atmosphere) has been cooling since 1998, and that was only due to a bad El Nina index - the worst on record incidentally - (as if ENSO was an independent parameter in the discussion of global warming factors
) and ignoring the fact that the heat stored in the oceans is increasing (with their much higher specific heat capacity than the atmosphere, Joules per deg C,) - and the total global heat continues to rise ...
then he should at least be prepared to wait until the next El Nina or two , and see if the atmosphere has warmed when projected through the peaks of said El Ninas.
To pick an outlier in the time plot of temp is not scientifically mature.
And to quote him and this argument is simply jumping on the Mobil Exxon bandwagon whereby billions have been allocated to obfuscate the argument amongst thinking people.
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Welcome back 2020, geez your spineless PM needs your support mate ,he is getting it both ends at present and deserves every little inch
prawn_86
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2020,
Last warning. We are not in this thread to debate CC.
What benefits will the Copenahgen Agreement bring specifically? How will it do as it says its going to? And why should we give up our sovereignty? Or show where it says we wont...
Last warning. We are not in this thread to debate CC.
What benefits will the Copenahgen Agreement bring specifically? How will it do as it says its going to? And why should we give up our sovereignty? Or show where it says we wont...
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:topic
Speaking of Miranda Divine and Andrew Bolt,
weren't they the only two reporters that Johnny Howard permitted to go to Iraq (mid - late 2007 I forget exactly) to report back that to withdraw from Iraq would be , ... as Ageo says
Speaking of Miranda Divine and Andrew Bolt,
weren't they the only two reporters that Johnny Howard permitted to go to Iraq (mid - late 2007 I forget exactly) to report back that to withdraw from Iraq would be , ... as Ageo says
ageo said:
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Yep I started a thread on Copenhagen some time back.
asked for predictions.
Had the same problem of posters wanting to discuss scepticism etc.
It turns out that there is probably an option that I didn't include amongst those options - and that was that they will defer the agreement ( or the agreen-ment if you prefer).
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Welcome back 2020, geez your spineless PM needs your support mate ,he is getting it both ends at present and deserves every little inch
jj, howdy -
yep it seems that both Lab and Libs went to the last election promising a carbon trading scheme -
but in Johnny Howard's case
a) it was a non-core promise,
b) so much so, that most of the rest of the coaltion didn't even know about it lol.
Sure Copenhagen has to sort out a workable plan here for such matters - or at least the first steps. It is important to move on beyond Kyoto.
Julia
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Yes, Mickel, of course. Thank you and sorry.
Oh God, there goes this thread!
We weren't.
There is absolutely no one in the entire history of ASF who has the capacity to hijack threads with so many utter irrelevancies as you, 2020.
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Ageo
I was simply explaining the source for Mickel's recent long post on the parallel thread , ...
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=509394&highlight=miranda#post509394
(You're right - it probably would sit better on that thread - but it's a close call - and I just wanted to juxtapose the close relationship that Miranda Devine and Andrew Bolt have with justjohn's heroes
)
Timmy
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Thanks 2020 and Ageo.
No more on the Miranda Devine debate now please.
Prawn has asked twice, nicely. He is very patient. Not one of my qualities, unfortunately.
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The practical implication is a transfer of industry and hence wealth to non-developed countries (notably China etc) so they have an interest in it going ahead.
Also it benefits the nuclear power industry and to a lesser extent renewables (primarily wind and hydro) so those who own power plants, suitable sites or uranium mines also gain from it.
Within Australia, the Tasmanian Government would benefit from it since the state-owned Hydro would gain around $400 million a year in revenue (equivalent to 10% of the Tas Govt's entire budget) through increased wholesale electricity prices in the national market. Hydro would also likely gain increased consulting revenue (noting that consulting is already a major part of it's total business) and new wind / hydro development opportunities that otherwise wouldn't be viable. That said, the state as a whole (as distinct from government) would likely see a decline or even total loss of it's major exporting industries (zinc, aluminium and ferro alloys in particular) as well as negative impacts on tourism, paper etc. So it's a transfer of wealth from the general community to the energy industry, which in this case just happens to be government owned (and has been kept that way largely in expectation that something like this would someday arise).
Nationally, the Australian Government gains via a new source of taxation that potentially dwarfs most existing taxes in scale and certainly in scope - it's effectively a tax on just about all economic activity.
The other states and territories would lose outright since there are minimal gains to offset losses apart from mostly privately owned wind farms. Individual communities potentially gain from a few energy related projects being built however. SA and the ACT have relatively less to lose overall than the rest due to lower CO2 intensity of power generation (SA) and a relatively lower dependence on energy-intensive industry (both).
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