Richard Dawkins - right or wrong?

Found this excerpt from a book on Richard Dawkins.
I am personally in full agreement

"a paradise of a religionless world"

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-7091195/Some-thoughts-on-the-Dawkins.html
Some thoughts on the Dawkins paradise.(Religion)(Richard Dawkins )

SINCE SHORTLY AFTER my religious boarding school failed, despite what then appeared to me to be its chaplain's and principal's best efforts, to convert me to atheism, I have been looking, like some Bravo swaggering down the Rialto, for some atheist publication or argument that would be a foeman worthy of my intellectual steel.

Not with a great deal of luck so far. Most recently I came across a passage where Professor of Atheism (or whatever his title is) Richard Dawkins has written of his beautiful dream of a religionless world in which there would be:

No suicide bombers, no 9/11, no Crusades, no witch hunts, no Gunpowder Plot, no Indian partition, no Israeli/Palestine wars, no Serb/Croat/ Muslim massacres, no persecution of Jews as "Christ-killers," no northern Ireland "troubles," no shiny-suited bouffant-haired televangelists fleecing gullible people ... no Taliban to blow up ancient statues, no public beheading of blasphemers ...

Hardly testing or stretching one's intellect, is it?

Click to expand...

On "The God Delusion":-
Richard Dawkins Reads The God Delusion

But equally he features in many youtubes arguing evolution,

plus many on general science

plus many on social issues etc

(and all these could be discussed to advantage imo).

Incidentally, nothing I have heard him say has ever come across as outlandish to my ears. And I personally enjoy his wit. Maybe others would disagree.

Re: Richard Dawkins - right or wrong

One half of me wishes that we could live in a world of no God.

The other half of me thinks the greatest trick the devil ever played was to tell the world he never existed. (not sure if that's the correct recital)

Re: Richard Dawkins - right or wrong

I only found out about Dawkins a couple of months ago..i like him.

And the "tea pot" analogy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07JvzfO0vOk

"We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further". Richard Dawkins

Re: Richard Dawkins - right or wrong

Most people have trouble with basic numerical algorithm programming, heck even long division for that matter ... so attention span must be considered when trying to give logical arguments ... two + two equals .... 22 ?!

We all should write a book, or get a youtube video. Hasn't everyone yet in trading ? Go write one now !

One area that our education surely lacks is in communication studies ... and analysing 'logical' arguments.

Re: Richard Dawkins - right or wrong

this is a fairly thorough investigation of one simple theological question ...

how "bad luck" happens to 1000s in an Earthquake, but if one if saved, then "God" intervened in THAT case.

I agree with this bloke's conclusion. It's all blind faith. viz...

"You cannot deal with religion on a rational basis. McGrath should have stuck to the main reason to be religious - and that is that it is simply an act of faith. McGrath cannot respond to Dawkin's unremitting logic. My suggestion to my religious friends is
"don't try to be logical - be like Tertullian, and stay away from rationality".

Re: An Analysis of The God Delusion - Part Three

The failure of reason and rationality in the ideas of Alistar McGrath

Click to expand...

In similar circumstances, someone may have picked up a 4 leaf clover and also said I survived because the luck of the Irish. Should the skeptics dismiss the entire notion of the existence of the country of Ireland, based on their disbelief of this person's claim ?


Your picking on a human circumstance, where people are just happy to be alive ! I hope the book is not using these as arguments, because even church folk would pull this apart.

These are silly arguments .. and would be dismissed as wishful thinking even in religous groups.

Most religions, recognise that people have a very limited understanding of reality, and are too prone to putting themselves in the centre, instead of God.

I'm not sure if it's possible to have a Godless world. Humans are too stupid.

I'm with Dawkins on just about everything.

Except this..

"No suicide bombers, no 9/11, no Crusades, no witch hunts, no Gunpowder Plot, no Indian partition, no Israeli/Palestine wars, no Serb/Croat/ Muslim massacres, no persecution of Jews as "Christ-killers," no northern Ireland "troubles," no shiny-suited bouffant-haired televangelists fleecing gullible people ... no Taliban to blow up ancient statues, no public beheading of blasphemers ... "

If there was no religion humans would find another reason for violence towards their fellows.

I agree with most of what he says. Also agree with John Lennon's "Imagine"

Sorry Weird, most here probably already understand my position on this topic, so I deliberately kept it short. I do however believe that you could read quite a few things into those 2 sentences. Firstly, I think that there is no way we can take God out of the world because there are still too many questions left unanswered and we will always replace the gap in our understanding with ‘God’. Just call the gap God for now and don’t worry if it’s Inti, Allah, Ra, Brahman, Yahweh, Elohim, or whatever. Secondly, humans refuse to recognise and accept that there may be a gap, and replace it with such absolutely brilliant metaphysics such as Creation, The Dream Time, Hahgwehdiyu, or The Enuma Elis. Or, perhaps you subscribe to one of my all time favourites and you call yourself a Raelian….Let’s imagine what could be God, but true faith or belief in It, and allowing the fantacy to control your life, is pure idiocy.

I too, have become a bit of a Dawkins fan - and if you're interested in this, should look up (youtube) some of the stuff the late great Douglas Adams has said on the subject. There are a few very simple explanations (from Adams) on the why man created God. If you look back on science, you'll see that often the gaps (as kennas put it) or things we couldn't explain scientifically, were explained by religion. Think about going back in time even 100 years ago - you're average person, would see a lot of our current technology as "god-like" - iphones, lasers, going to the moon. Now imagine going back 200, 300, etc and the ability of even scientific men of that time would be challenged.


I think the more you logically think about it, the more it becomes apparent that God is a very human creation - and will never be eradicated for multiple reasons.

It is the ultimate form of control. It is pretty much cult-like - having been brought up in a somewhat religous family, what I thought was a very reasonable family (i.e. NOT fundamentalist at all) & an Eastern religion that is not typically an aggressive one - it now amazes me how intolerant religion is as whole. How it prejudices peoples thoughts & views. It also amazes me how ingrained or subconscious these thoughts become - I'm tempted to use the word 'programmed' - so that people act & behave in a way that they themselves don't realize or can rationally explain.

Superstition & luck are also things, as humans, we believe in & cling to because they make us feel better. And the fact that even the atheist & agnostic among us fall prey to those, underlines how difficult it would be for the remainder to throw off the shackles of religion.

I was somewhat heartened to see the wiki entry on religion saying that atheism is coming up third - because another one of my gripes is the silent majority. The people that don't practice or preach a religion, and are for all purposes not really believers - who, when it comes time to tick a box on a form, put down a religion for the sack of tradition or family or something... I worry that that kind of support is what continues funding and perpetuation of religion.

Lastly, the other main reason, I can never see religion going away is that it offers the perfect insurance policy (for the insurance/religious company, that is!). Pay up front, and we'll look after you in the afterlife. Can we show you proof - yeah, sure - you just have to believe... Death without an hope of an afterlife - the thought of non-existance of your 'self' is pretty damn bleak & depressing - which is why religion and it's offer of the continued existance as you as the entity you are today (rather than worm food) is it's greatest strength.

BTW - I'm pretty sure it isn't factually correct - it seems 'too perfect', but I find it enjoyable nonetheless:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU

weird said:

In similar circumstances, someone may have picked up a 4 leaf clover and also said I survived because the luck of the Irish. Should the skeptics dismiss the entire notion of the existence of the country of Ireland, based on their disbelief of this person's claim ?

Your picking on a human circumstance, where people are just happy to be alive ! I hope the book is not using these as arguments, because even church folk would pull this apart.

Click to expand...

weird
you are comparing religion with Irish superstition.
for once I agree with you.
(they are two sides of the same coin)

(charming as the Irish are - with their Blarney stones etc - they are not gonna win too many science awards in that mode)

Hehe its funny how people think religion is responsible for wars etc... like anything in life you need to take responsiblity for your own actions. If these guys that started these wars didnt have religion as an excuse they would use something else, remember there are both peacefull and evil people in every race, gender and religion so this tells us that its not the tool or the faith or the object that supposedly drives them but its actually their personality and their beliefs. If someone has hatred in their mind and the only thing their seeking is blood then no matter what the excuse/reason is they will always be evil.

Well , if you've read Revelations ( which they should make a movie on ) , you could also add his name to the Anti-Christ list :

guess everyone knows you can read the bible on line these days.
http://www.rhymezone.com/r/gwic.cgi?Word=_&Path=holy/newtestament/revelation

New Testament remember ....

2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou
sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to
teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat
things sacrificed unto idols.

2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she
repented not.

2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery
with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches
shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I
will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Click to expand...

pretty tough call for a god of love and the message of forgiveness
especially for the innocent kids
.........

2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him
will I give power over the nations: 2:27 And he shall rule them with a
rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to
shivers: even as I received of my Father.

2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

Click to expand...

Now I know where George Bush gets his mad ideas.
Fortunately the "reality" of the US electoral laws is about to give him the flick

Quick question is he in opposition to God or opposition to religion?

Ageo said:

If someone has hatred in their mind and the only thing their seeking is blood then no matter what the excuse/reason is they will always be evil.

Click to expand...

Except, evil is a religious concept.

kgee said:

Quick question is he in opposition to God or opposition to religion?

Click to expand...

He just thinks its all silly superstiton , made up by very naive people thousands of years ago. If you look at it from a scientific view point there is zero evidence of a divine being.
There is a lot of unanswered questions but we keep finding answers all time as our knowledge increases and all these answers tell us the religious texts of all the major faiths are wrong.

My thanks to Driver and Kennas, both of whom have said what I would have wanted to say, and probably better.

Yesterday I was talking with a highly qualified psychologist who works for a community organisation and she was trying to persuade me of the benefits of believing in a "personal guardian angel"!!!!! She is one of the bunches of people who believe that God will save those who find him, but the rest of us will become Satan's. No kidding.

Julia said:

She is one of the bunches of people who believe that God will save those who find him, but the rest of us will become Satan's. No kidding.

Click to expand...

Pity those born in different countries, who don't follow her god.
By her logic, they are all damned to hell for simply being born in the wrong location.