You're not smart enough

Trembling Hand · 28 May 2008

Good one Timmy. This links right in and is very interesting.

Through more than three decades of systematic research, she has been figuring out answers to why some people achieve their potential while equally talented others don’t.............The key, she found, isn’t ability; it’s whether you look at ability as something inherent that needs to be demonstrated or as something that can be developed.

Even more interesting is

..zest for challenge helped explain why other capable students thought they lacked ability just because they’d hit a setback. Common sense suggests that ability inspires self-confidence. And it does for a while—so long as the going is easy. But setbacks change everything. Dweck realized—and, with colleague Elaine Elliott soon demonstrated—that the difference lay in the kids’ goals. “The mastery-oriented children are really hell-bent on learning something,” Dweck says, and “learning goals” inspire a different chain of thoughts and behaviors than “performance goals.”

Which leads in a nice loop back to the mindset actually being trained through practice to help learning,

The most dramatic proof comes from a recent study by Dweck and Lisa Sorich Blackwell of low-achieving seventh graders. All students participated in sessions on study skills, the brain and the like; in addition, one group attended a neutral session on memory while the other learned that intelligence, like a muscle, grows stronger through exercise. Training students to adopt a growth mind-set about intelligence had a catalytic effect on motivation and math grades; students in the control group showed no improvement despite all the other interventions.

“Study skills and learning skills are inert until they’re powered by an active ingredient,” Dweck explains. Students may know how to study, but won’t want to if they believe their efforts are futile. “If you target that belief, you can see more benefit than you have any reason to hope for.”

http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2007/marapr/features/dweck.html

Love it!

sails · 28 May 2008

Timmy said:
...I think reading the links in Sails' post and combining the findings with those about deliberative effort is not a bad road to be on?

I have an 8 yr old granddaughter who has been struggling at school since she started in Grade 1. Sadly, she believed she was dumb and it was difficult to motivate her.

However, after reading that article, I have been relentless in my attempts to inspire her and have explained that the brain is like a muscle and will improve with effort.

The changes have been incredible - she now regularly gets 100% for her spelling tests each week and she is steaming ahead in all her subjects not to mention the improvement in her self esteem and confidence.

Thought I would share this as it has certainly confirmed in my mind the value of that article and how much our mindsets can affect us.

Rockhoundnz · 29 May 2008

I agree with a lot of what TH has to say here. Although I think that the analytical skills and psychology that a successful trader uses are both things that can be learnt with practice. I don't think you can succeed without both. This video from Alex Wasilewski (head trader and co-founder of Puretick) sums up nicely what it takes to become a successful trader:

http://www.puretick.com/video/thetruth

Here's how long it took some smart and determined people to become profitable:

Linda Raschke - 3 years
John Carter - 4 years
Mark Fisher - 3 years
Hubert Senters - 2 years sitting by the side of an experienced trader before trading

Some food for thought eh?

tcoates · 29 May 2008

Here's how long it took some smart and determined people to become profitable:

Linda Raschke - 3 years
John Carter - 4 years
Mark Fisher - 3 years
Hubert Senters - 2 years sitting by the side of an experienced trader before trading

Ahhh.... there's hope for me yet

And I did watch the video. Not bad.

Tim

Timmy · 29 May 2008

Rockhoundnz said:
Here's how long it took some smart and determined people to become profitable:

Nothing wrong with taking time to do it right...

Timmy · 29 May 2008

sails said:
I have an 8 yr old granddaughter who has been struggling at school since she started in Grade 1. Sadly, she believed she was dumb and it was difficult to motivate her.

However, after reading that article, I have been relentless in my attempts to inspire her and have explained that the brain is like a muscle and will improve with effort.

The changes have been incredible - she now regularly gets 100% for her spelling tests each week and she is steaming ahead in all her subjects not to mention the improvement in her self esteem and confidence.

Thought I would share this as it has certainly confirmed in my mind the value of that article and how much our mindsets can affect us.

Good stuff Sails - I have started on this path with my children too (and on me )

Michael9 · 31 May 2008

Great stuff Sails. Confidence is a strong platform for taking the risks and coping the mistakes that precede progress. An encouraging relationship is critical. None of us would have ever learned to walk or talk if we were simply corrected at every stumble and stutter. Feels good too when you see the smiles and that quiet intent as the next challenge emerges.

It's Snake Pliskin · 3 June 2008

Rockhoundnz said:
I agree with a lot of what TH has to say here. Although I think that the analytical skills and psychology that a successful trader uses are both things that can be learnt with practice. I don't think you can succeed without both. This video from Alex Wasilewski (head trader and co-founder of Puretick) sums up nicely what it takes to become a successful trader:

http://www.puretick.com/video/thetruth

Here's how long it took some smart and determined people to become profitable:

Linda Raschke - 3 years
John Carter - 4 years
Mark Fisher - 3 years
Hubert Senters - 2 years sitting by the side of an experienced trader before trading

Some food for thought eh?

Thanks for posting the link.

I believe Rashke lost a lot at one stage too, I read.

Timmy · 5 July 2008

TH has referred to Brett Steenbarger's book Enhancing Trader Performance and highly recommends it.

This is a link to quite a long presentation on the book.

Link.

The presentation is not solely about Steenbarger's book, much of it links in the presenter's use of Market Profile with the theme of Steenbarger's book, that is the lessons of the book are presented in the context of learning the Market Profile method. It is not necessary, though, to have a clue about MP, or even to want to have a clue about MP, to benefit from Steenbarger's book. Keep this in mind when viewing the presentation.

BTW I am posting the link but have no links to or even any experience with the person and organisation doing the presentation, I am not an 'affiliate' or have any relationship with the presenter or the organsiation.

Note that the presentation is split into two parts. the first part is about 22 MB, the second is only about 5 MB. The first part finishes suddenly, with no warning, the second part picks up where the first finishes.

Trembling Hand · 5 July 2008

Nice bump Timmy

And with perfect timing Dr Brett has a great Blog post on the BullS*** of Emotion in trading and the real cause of trading problems. Here is the crux of it in this quote,

If you don't understand markets, if you don't systematically prepare for trading, and if you haven't sufficiently rehearsed trading-related skills, you'll perform miserably and you'll become emotional.

Post is here

It also has some very nice articles on skill development.

Faithinchartz · 17 June 2009

Trembling Hand said:
Why reasonable smart and logical people apply thinking that in my experience is illogical and must be unique to the trading field.[/B][/U] It seems that the thinking and process of "I'm a sharp cookie at XYZ therefore I can jump in live with hard earned money and go up against pros and succeed" is unique to trading only.

I think that any profession based on logic and with some component of economics or statistics can do better than most traders with minimal practice. There is a lot of witchcraft in trading methods, and the punters like to claim skills that have simply been pulled out of the air with no scientific basis. Makes them feel important.

beamstas · 17 June 2009

Faithinchartz said:
I think that any profession based on logic and with some component of economics or statistics can do better than most traders with minimal practice. There is a lot of witchcraft in trading methods, and the punters like to claim skills that have simply been pulled out of the air with no scientific basis. Makes them feel important.

I disagree with this.
I don't think you need any profession to be a successful trader..

Infact maybe the opposite. If you have a profession in you may approach trading with the attitude that you always need to be right, you've done the hard yards, you've gotten to the top of your game, how can the market beat you? Every time you trade you have to be right, this could possibly not be beneficial.

Brad

skyQuake · 18 June 2009

Look at the name, obvious troll.

Mr J · 18 June 2009

I agree with beamstas. Trading requires a certain way of thinking, not a certain type of education. Many seemingly intelligent people become complete fools in a casino. It's not much different when it comes to trading.

As for the topic, I thought I was a sharp cookie, jumped in and mixed it with the pros. How hard could it be? And then I find it's actually easier than expected :.

GumbyLearner · 18 June 2009

God made the Idiot for practice. Then he made the School Board.

- Mark Twain

Triathlete · 9 May 2018

I realise this is an old thread started by Trembling Hand but it is worth the read.......

How true your quote is Peter2..

peter2 said:
One reason why people that are successful in one endeavour have difficulty becoming successful in trading could be due to them overlooking the years of learning, effort and experience that they gained in order to be successful. They wouldn't forget that they started at the bottom and worked their way up, but now that they are successful, their business or endeavour is easily maintained with minimal effort.

Not many realise that trading is a very competitive business. Not only do they want to start trading at the top level, they assume that they only need put in a minimal effort to be successful.

Only the few with ambition and motivation to work towards their trading goals will get there.

And another from.... Brett Steenbarger, Ph.D.

"If you don't understand markets, if you don't systematically prepare for trading, and if you haven't sufficiently rehearsed trading-related skills, you'll perform miserably and you'll become emotional. Plenty of emotional traders contact me seeking help; the vast majority trade simple patterns that have no demonstrable edge whatsoever, do not understand intermarket relationships, and do not know how to read intraday market sentiment. They're emotional because they haven't a clue."

frugal.rock · 17 September 2020

Triathlete said:
"If you don't understand markets, if you don't systematically prepare for trading, and if you haven't sufficiently rehearsed trading-related skills, you'll perform miserably and you'll become emotional.

Working on these skills.
So many facets to the market, some important, some not so.
However, systematic preparation and sufficiently rehearsed trading related skills are big helpers in managing emotions.

You're not smart enough

Trembling Hand

Can be found on the bid

sails

Rockhoundnz

tcoates

Timmy

white swans need love too

Timmy

white swans need love too

Michael9

It's Snake Pliskin

Timmy

white swans need love too

Trembling Hand

Can be found on the bid

Faithinchartz

beamstas

skyQuake

Mr J

GumbyLearner

Triathlete

Keep it Simple..!

frugal.rock

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