Why are we penalised for working harder/earning more?

Julia · 10 September 2008

Prawn, your comments didn't sound arrogant. Education is our future.
We need to support young people while they study, and allow them to earn a reasonable amount while they are doing this. If it's all just too hard, they will just drop out and go and work at some dead end job instead.

We need to take a long term view. By getting behind students when they need the assistance, we will be preventing more ending up on the dole or sole parent pensions.

pepperoni · 10 September 2008

aleckara said:
YA is a pet hate of mine.

My parents earned more than 55k, way more. But in their infinite wisdom they had bascially told me to pay rent while living with them. Which meant I would have to work a lot more than the average student, and not get the full independence of living on my own.

At university I would see the same person on YA. they don't work as much as I would, and due to YA while they are being subsided they are living close to the city, with their independence financed by the government to boot while I had to travel at least 2.5 hours a day to get there. they have their own place to crash and do the things that young adults do with freedom and confidence not feeling the responsibility of being in someone else's pocket.

When I was at school it was often the case that the kids with money to spend often did so because YA was deposited into their accounts. The kids with parents that were rich enough seemed to live the poorer lifestyle.

Other people at uni, who have parents who work hard share the same concerns. If YA was respective across all students (who are usually struggling equally) I would have no problems. But it isn't. The reality is that students who don't have government help have to work - and hope they have a natural aptitude at uni and be satisfied with less than average marks.

I had this prob too ... sucks for sure but no such system will ever be perfect.

Where do you stop the handouts ... no sense giving YA to james packer.

prawn_86 · 10 September 2008

pepperoni said:
Where do you stop the handouts ... no sense giving YA to james packer.

Why not? If he is going to uni then shouldn't he be entitled to it?

His family worked hard to get where they are, why should he be discriminated against? Same goes with taxes (although the uber wealthy can usually get around this)

aleckara · 10 September 2008

pepperoni said:
I had this prob too ... sucks for sure but no such system will ever be perfect.

Where do you stop the handouts ... no sense giving YA to james packer.

Guess not. I think rather than YA, maybe rent assistance for student rated accomodation? "James Packer" I'm sure would be happier in a much better lodging and would not qualify for it.

There are many ways. I agree students need to be supported. But looking at universities, the ones who are involved with the unions, the ones who are vocal about issues and YA mainteanance, the ones who supported VSU for all the clubs and fun they had with it - they have the time to enjoy those things because well they weren't busy working.

cuttlefish · 10 September 2008

Wysiwyg said:
Just wondering why you think you deserve a government handout for proving independance and taking a year off uni. studies?

aleckara said:
My parents earned more than 55k, way more. But in their infinite wisdom they had bascially told me to pay rent while living with them. Which meant I would have to work a lot more than the average student, and not get the full independence of living on my own.

Hmmm ... I'm starting to see some other points here ... (I never got any Austudy either as it was called back in the day).

So Prawn ... stop yer bl*ddy whinging and get me a quarter pounder and fries will ya!

prawn_86 · 10 September 2008

cuttlefish said:
So Prawn ... stop yer bl*ddy whinging and get me a quarter pounder and fries will ya!

I'll make sure i spit in it just for you :

Largesse · 10 September 2008

I am a YA receiving 22year old student.

I study full time and work approx 12 hours per week.

I did take the year off work to prove my independence because otherwise i would not have been able to afford to go to uni and work enough to pay the bills.

I receiving NOTHING from my parents even though they would well and truely be classed as "rich".

People are saying that "work needs to be encouraged": Is work encourage by taxing you at 65% for any dollar earnt over an approx $120 a week threshold?

Last FY, YA rose approx $6.00 per fortnight or approx 1.6% for the year.

RBA stated inflation was nearly double that.

At risk of getting a bit cliche, it is high time that the government fixed the YA earnings thresholds. I'm not asking for more handouts, i'm just asking to BE ALLOWED TO WORK MORE WITH HAVING TO SACRIFICE HALF OF MY BENEFIT.

What happened to my Education Revolution?

prawn_86 · 11 September 2008

Largesse said:
Last FY, YA rose approx $6.00 per fortnight or approx 1.6% for the year.

RBA stated inflation was nearly double that.

At risk of getting a bit cliche, it is high time that the government fixed the YA earnings thresholds. I'm not asking for more handouts, i'm just asking to BE ALLOWED TO WORK MORE WITH HAVING TO SACRIFICE HALF OF MY BENEFIT.

What happened to my Education Revolution?

I agree, its a crock. But of course politicians wont do a thing about it, as they have never done anything about anything, except for setup reviews for their mates, and then ignore the outcomes anyway.

Nashezz · 11 September 2008

prawn_86 said:
Why not? If he is going to uni then shouldn't he be entitled to it?

His family worked hard to get where they are, why should he be discriminated against? Same goes with taxes (although the uber wealthy can usually get around this)

I don't think so Prawn. You mentioned that only people that satisfy your criteria should get unemployment benefits, ie the so-called 'bludgers' should not. Why do you have a different view with YA? Those from wealthier families don't need it. My parents earnt over the cut-off yet I had viewed them as being low income earners throughout their lives. That being said they sacrificed their (potential) living standards while I was at uni to help me cover living expenses. I think all the people complaining need to take the issue up with their parents rather then the government. Your parents unwillingness to help you is not a government problem.

If you just handed out welfare, such as YA and pensions, without criteria, the tax burden for working people would be huge. What happens when the economy slows and the unemployment rises as it will inevitably, in the course of the economic cycle? We have even less people working to pay for more needed unemployment benefits as well as the mandatory pension and YA. How about the effect of a mass of baby boomers hitting retirement and all getting a mandatory pension? If we seriously undertook a program of welfare for all, regardless, there would be little money left for anything else.

I don't believe there was anything like YA when uni was free, although scholarships were far more prevalent and accessible.

prawn_86 · 11 September 2008

Nashezz said:
You mentioned that only people that satisfy your criteria should get unemployment benefits, ie the so-called 'bludgers' should not. Why do you have a different view with YA?

I dont recall saying this. Ignoring special situations such as disabilities, i think the system should be the same for everyone. If some who are capable of working get the dole because they choose not to work, then why shouldnt those who do work also get it? Give it to them as a tax deduction or something.

Nashezz · 11 September 2008

My apologies Prawn - you didn't actually say that. To answer your question - I think it is because the tax burden would be too high. If everyone is to get it you are talking about taking about (not sure what the dole is anymore) $300 out of everyones paycheck every fortnight. Since this is less than what a part time person will often earn, I dont think they are going to be happy to wait twelve months to get their money back as a 'deduction'. Add to to the fact that a compulsory pension and YA also has to come out of every working persons paycheck and you see how there is no way it could work.

Largesse · 11 September 2008

Nashezz,

why should the parents of australian students be required to 'support' their 18+ year old children....

if the government believes that australia will move forward as a nation through education (which by all indicators, it will) then it should be the one to support low income earning students and keep them in university.

i cant see any reason why my parents should HAVE to support me because i chose to study full time, but i can see many reasons why the government should

Timmy · 11 September 2008

I was in a similar situation to you Prawn when I was at Uni. Mind you, no HECS in those days.

The family home was far enough from Uni to allow me to qualify for whatever the assistance was called then. I lived in a share house, and had a casual job - but same sort of situation, once I earned a certain amount (sorry can't remember the numbers) the assistance from the government halved for every dollar over X (whatever it was). Basically, after just a few months I realised I could earn heaps more not bothering with the assistance and just working at the job (yep, would you like fries with that?). My Uni course was pretty easy so I could work quite a bit, especially during holidays etc.

I don't know ... for me, working so little that I continued to qualify for the assistance was just not sensibly financially, I was better off working (and continuing to study of course). Maybe that's how the 'system' is meant to work?

The costs were that I probably didn't have as full a social life as my peers at the time, but I had a good time anyway! For a while I used to start work at 5am on Saturday and Sunday mornings – so if there was a party on Friday or Saturday nights then it was party all night for me then straight to work! Ahhh to be young again....

Do what's financially right for you.

Gspot · 11 September 2008

One thing I believe, is that the waiting lists for surgery at our public hospitals, should be set that, people that have worked most their life, no matter the job, go to the front and the people that have relied on welfare most their lives go to the back.
Just another insentive to work and contribute to our society, and be appreciated for it.

Junior · 11 September 2008

aleckara said:
YA is a pet hate of mine.

My parents earned more than 55k, way more. But in their infinite wisdom they had bascially told me to pay rent while living with them. Which meant I would have to work a lot more than the average student, and not get the full independence of living on my own.

At university I would see the same person on YA. They didn't need to work as much as I would, and due to YA while they are being subsided they were living close to the city with their independence financed by the government to. I had to travel at least 2.5 hours a day to get there. These students have their own place to crash and do the things that young adults do with freedom and confidence not feeling the responsibility of being in someone else's pocket.

When I was at school years ago it was often the case that the kids with money to spend often did so because YA was deposited into their accounts. The kids with parents that were rich enough seemed to live the poorer lifestyle.

Other people at uni, who had parents who work hard share the same concerns. If YA was respective across all students (who are usually struggling equally) I would have no problems. But it isn't. The reality is that students who don't have government help have to work - and hope they have a natural aptitude at uni and be satisfied with less than average marks. It isn't equitable and actually puts poorer people in a better footing, not just financially but in terms of their independence and gives them an advantage in their development imo.

I don't understand the problem...why can't you move out of home and close to uni? Then you would have your full independance and receive YA.

aleckara · 11 September 2008

Junior said:
I don't understand the problem...why can't you move out of home and close to uni? Then you would have your full independance and receive YA.

Well I never looked into it to be honest at the time. A quick look at the Centrelink website just to check shows you needed to have been receiving benefits, or live a year out of home to prove you live away. A year is a long time of paying full rent, and I think that would stop most people from doing exactly as you suggest.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Besides I think working is good for you, and for other people as well.

Nashezz · 11 September 2008

Largesse said:
Nashezz,

why should the parents of australian students be required to 'support' their 18+ year old children....

if the government believes that australia will move forward as a nation through education (which by all indicators, it will) then it should be the one to support low income earning students and keep them in university.

i cant see any reason why my parents should HAVE to support me because i chose to study full time, but i can see many reasons why the government should

Largesse,

In essence I agree with you. I believe everyone should have equal access to education. I have a strong socialist leaning in this and in health. On the other hand, my parents who were low income earners managed to basically put me through with little financial stress on my own behalf - sure I scrounged out a cheap existence and swore never to be poor again but it was at worst character building. I did not mean to indicate however that I don't support an increase in spending in education, nor that people of every economic background need to be given the same opportunity. The way HECS fees have risen certainly goes against this.

Now, if you can't pay HECS upfront (ie are not from a wealthy background) most people will have significant debt over their head until they are into their 30's. Not a very good start for you to buy a house or prepare for having a family (are not we supposed to have them younger as well....).

fordxbt · 11 September 2008

Gspot said:
One thing I believe, is that the waiting lists for surgery at our public hospitals, should be set that, people that have worked most their life, no matter the job, go to the front and the people that have relied on welfare most their lives go to the back.
Just another insentive to work and contribute to our society, and be appreciated for it.

wouldnt you know i book specialist clinics @ a hospital under similar circumstances!

white_goodman · 11 September 2008

my youth allowance has been cut to $3 a fortnight lol...

and im a full time student... however full time in my course in 3rd year is 3 subjects 7 hours a week and its usually after work in the city so convenient aswell

Naked shorts · 11 September 2008

We're all supposed to sit at home, smoke weed and watch movies and then bitch and complain when the person next to us, who has saved their money starts to enjoy what they have saved.

Why are we penalised for working harder/earning more?

Julia

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Why are we penalised for working harder/earning more?

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