Why are they reducing super limits?

[medicowallet]

I guess you missed the irony of someone whose whole profession depends on government interference of their market complaining about government interference in other areas.

1. If you want the best medical practitioners to move to America or Europe, just stop it.

2. People would pay for medical treatment if it was NOT government subsidised, AND it would result in doctors being paid MORE.

Learn about remuneration of medical professionals, and you will realise that many, especially the most proficient are paid much less here than what they are worth.

 

[medicowallet]

Reminds me of the quote "None so blind as those who will not see". You do know you pay the same amount of tax on your first $50000 of income as everyone else? You do know what a marginal tax rate is?

.

Of course I know this.

Do you also realise that there are people on this thread who are saying that salary sacrificing is unfair?

That it is unfair to lower income earners that higher income earners may receive a tax concession TO THEIR LEVEL for a mere $25k income.

How serious do you expect me to take your posts? Do you really believe that a tax concession of $6-7k is unfair for a person contributing $60k, especially when the $50k earner contributes only $8k

AND the high income earner will never require a pension etc later in life.

Have your cake and eat it too mate, because you can have yours and the high income earners too.

Spend some time training yourself up, earn some real money, then come back here when you have some perspective.

 

[todster]

But like the average person earning $50k, you fail to ask WHY someone is earning $200k and they are only earning $50k.

Might like to ponder that a for a bit over your evening beers, instead of still being at work, or, as in the case of doctors, training for 13 or so years.

Yeah the one who do breast augmentation and lipo and stuff deserve special rates imo

 

[todster]

Yeah the one who do breast augmentation and lipo and stuff deserve special rates imo

Stayin back late lookin at there work 13 years well spent thats wha i call super!

 

[todster]

Of course I know this.

Do you also realise that there are people on this thread who are saying that salary sacrificing is unfair?

That it is unfair to lower income earners that higher income earners may receive a tax concession TO THEIR LEVEL for a mere $25k income.

How serious do you expect me to take your posts? Do you really believe that a tax concession of $6-7k is unfair for a person contributing $60k, especially when the $50k earner contributes only $8k

AND the high income earner will never require a pension etc later in life.

Have your cake and eat it too mate, because you can have yours and the high income earners too.

Spend some time training yourself up, earn some real money, then come back here when you have some perspective.

Gee mate i will excede your 60k with only 4years training who is the fool

 

[So_Cynical]

A person who earns $50k has a tax rate of approx 17% (before government handouts/middle class welfare)

A person who earns 200k has a tax rate of approx 32% (before government levies)

So salary sacrificing at 15% tax means that for $25k the high income earner is effectively paying the same amount of tax on that $25k as the $50k earner.

Some prior posters need a reality check for the real world.

WHERE is this advantageous taxation area??? I fail to see it.

If anything it is unfair for a $200k earner to pay $63k + tax for working more than the person who pays less than $8500 per year.

.... awaiting the "we deserve to be subsidised by high income earners" posts by the middle class welfare posters.

Some people make their own "luck", others whine about it.

Medico do you think someone on 200K a year has greater potential/opportunity to take advantage of salary sacrifice when compared to someone on 50k ?

Even if we consider that our mystery worker pulling 200K has twice the outgoings of the Drone pulling 50K, our 200K man/woman still has 4 times the capacity to sacrifice/take advantage of the system.

I don't know about the other average income earners out there but im sick and tired of propping up the whiny rich, im glad the green Labor alliance is clawing back what they can from the hands of Australia's whiny rich.

Spend some time training yourself up, earn some real money, then come back here when you have some perspective.

touche , its amazing how many capitalist socialist traders are out there LMAO ... what an oxymoron ...

Well you got the Moron part right.

 

[sptrawler]

Medico do you think someone on 200K a year has greater potential/opportunity to take advantage of salary sacrifice when compared to someone on 50k ?

Even if we consider that our mystery worker pulling 200K has twice the outgoings of the Drone pulling 50K, our 200K man/woman still has 4 times the capacity to sacrifice/take advantage of the system.

I don't know about the other average income earners out there but im sick and tired of propping up the whiny rich, im glad the green Labor alliance is clawing back what they can from the hands of Australia's whiny rich.





Well you got the Moron part right.

Well So_Cynical maybe you could ask how many of your moraly superior Labor/Green fabulously caring politicians are observing the limits they are imposing on everyone else.
Funnily enough the only politician I have ever seen, that had the dignity and honesty to accept the punitive class oppressive rules they force on others, was Allan Carpenter. He didn't last long, obviously had principles and couldn't live with the smell.
I really wouldn't mind any of the superannuation laws if they applied equally to the politicians that invoke them. However it is just a case of "the working class can kiss my aaaaaase I got the bosses job at last".
The rich don't need the super contribution breaks, it is only the people breaking their **** doing fly in fly out 14 on 7 off etc. They need the opportunity to put some off the high income(for a lot of hours worked) away in super so there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[medicowallet]

Gee mate i will excede your 60k with only 4years training who is the fool

1. Earning more than $200k is very good with only 4 years of training well done!! May I ask what it is that you do?

2. I never said that I only earn $200k. I don't know any full time specialist who only makes $200k

Medico do you think someone on 200K a year has greater potential/opportunity to take advantage of salary sacrifice when compared to someone on 50k ?

Even if we consider that our mystery worker pulling 200K has twice the outgoings of the Drone pulling 50K, our 200K man/woman still has 4 times the capacity to sacrifice/take advantage of the system.

Of course they have the capacity.

However they do so at 15% tax, and hence are doing so at the average tax rate of a $50k earner, so they are not doing so at an unfair advantage.

The tax rate on the $25k salary sacrifice is the same as the $50k income earner.

Gee, the next argument will be that someone who works 60 hours per week is getting unfair pay because they earn more than someone working 40 hours per week.


The fact is that everyone can do any job. I could TRY to become CEO of CBA. I would make more money than I do now, but would have to receive the appropriate training, work my way up the corporate ladder, and make many sacrifices to achieve that position and hence the opportunities that affords.

For me, with the prospects of that, it may be better to become a truck driver at the mines, or a geologist/engineer, and ride a potentially temporary boom for what it is worth.

Then I could whinge about how much CEOs are paid, without any thought of the fact that I could be that CEO.

I don't know about the other average income earners out there but im sick and tired of propping up the whiny rich, im glad the green Labor alliance is clawing back what they can from the hands of Australia's whiny rich.

So, to "prop up" the whiny rich, how much tax do you pay per year?

Or is that just a throw away line, without an understanding of what some people actually pay per year?

 

[Junior]

I don't know about the other average income earners out there but im sick and tired of propping up the whiny rich, im glad the green Labor alliance is clawing back what they can from the hands of Australia's whiny rich.

Observe my case study:

Case Study

Average worker earning $50,000 with no capacity to salary sacrifice pays the following tax:

Income tax and medicare $8,600
Contributions tax based on 9% super conts $675
TOTAL TAX $9,275

Worker earning $200,000 taking advantage of the system by salary sacrificing $32k into super:

Income tax and medicare $46,450
Contributions tax based on 9% super conts $2,700
Conts tax on salary sacrificed amount $4,800
TOTAL TAX $53,950

Even after making maximum salary sacrifice conts, wealthy person still pays 5 times as much in income and contributions tax for the year, so, in fact, they are 'propping up' the average worker.

 

[sptrawler]

Also junior, lets not forget the compulsory health insurance, $4,200p.a h.b.f

 

[Crom]

Dear oh dear, how big are some of the chips on the shoulders out there (So_Cyn and todster).

Other posters on this thread are politely trying to point out facts in regard to taxes paid, benefits of hard work, reskilling and taking ownership of financial matters.

However you guys just want to stick to your bizzare view of what a higher income earners profile is, and that they are parasites in the tax system. May I suggest that you actually talk to someone who is a higher income earner and you will be totally blown away.

The gst I pay would be higher than average income persons tax. Then add my income tax plus SMSF taxes (introduced by the Hawke/Keating Gov't from memory). Some of my close friends and family members, pay more tax in their 3 monthly BAS statements, than I earn in a year!

Your view so Cynical re supporting the wealthy is just embarrassing. All professionals income is identifiable to the ATO, and taxed! Deductions are based on spending on buisiness needs, and that means foregone monies, AND, the supporting of other buisinesses and their staff.

We do not live in feudal times mate, or in a country where the aristocracy is supported (though we do sadly have to support many ALP and Green clowns).

I actually find your comment re the ALP/greens clawing back monies to lower income demographics as rather ofensive. Albeit I acknowledge your bravery in admitting to supporting this minority Gov't, as it continues on it's merry way of destroying this country. (I hear you Julia re they won't be in for much longer. However once the coalition clears up the mess, the electorate will then do what they always do and vote in another ALP Gov't!).

My offense is that what you are actually saying is that rather than taking ownership of your current situation by re skilling, working longer hours, changing occupations etc, you just want a Gov't that will continue to strip money away from achievers so that you can get more without having to work for it.

so you don't think I am a hypocrite, I left a cushy senior management job in the public service in my mid thirties. I had a degree in Economics and a post grad management degree. Both undertaken while working full time without any assistance. I then did a science degree, again while working fulltime, and started my own buisiness. My income was very hand to mouth for a number of years but with hard work and intelligence, I am now a higher income person of the type you despise.

Might I add that I also got rid of my managed funds in super, and set up and managed my own SMSF. Taking this from $60 k to almost $700K.

Nothing has come easy mate. I get nothing from the Gov't. When I retire I will get nothing from the Gov't. For you to sit back and vote a certain way hoping that I will have more tax dollars transferred to people who don't want to make ownership changes is offensive.

Now master Todster, your comments re plastic surgeons is also offensive. And being the good Catholic that I am, I pray that you don't have a major accident that requires their service. And by the way, given what a females body goes through in having children and breast feeding, how dare you villify a woman who wants her breasts back the way they were.

My other gripe is your attack on medical professionals. My younger brother is a cardiologist, and he deferred making a good income for over 12 years of education and training. I bet my left one that if you needed him to save your life, or the life of someone close to you, you would not begrudge him one cent of income. He also works very long hours and is on call 7 days a week, 24 hours a day unless he can get another cardiologist to cover for him.

And do you know another thing, I whinged to him about the amount of tax I pay, and in his gentle way he just smiled and I felt rather silly as his 3 month tax bill was more than my total yearly income.

I don't think anymore really needs to be said on this thread. If you are unhappy then take ownership and make changes. Be assurred that higher income earners do pay a very fair share of their income in tax, and that they are not demons who exist to make your lives poorer.

I wish you well and hope your stock selections are better than your political ones!

All the best to all the posters here

CROM

 

[Intrinsic Value]

Medico do you think someone on 200K a year has greater potential/opportunity to take advantage of salary sacrifice when compared to someone on 50k ?

Even if we consider that our mystery worker pulling 200K has twice the outgoings of the Drone pulling 50K, our 200K man/woman still has 4 times the capacity to sacrifice/take advantage of the system.

I don't know about the other average income earners out there but im sick and tired of propping up the whiny rich, im glad the green Labor alliance is clawing back what they can from the hands of Australia's whiny rich.





Well you got the Moron part right.

Things are not as simple as they may seem.

Take my case for example.

I am over 50 and obviously haven't enjoyed the compulsory super scheme as long as young people will do in the future.

Further I never made a lot of money when i was young and of course I had a family and mortgage to pay as well then.

I am now according to you super rich am earning close to 300k a year but this has only happened over the last couple of years and wont continue for too many years.

Wouldn't it be more cost effective for the government to allow me to salary sacrifice as much as possible at the 15 percent so that they dont have to support me on a pension for 25 years?

A lot of people dont start making money til later in life and of course when they are younger have different priorities so a tax break for those trying to save for their retirement is hardly a burden on society especially if it means they wont be dependent on the government pension for many years.

 

[sptrawler]

Things are not as simple as they may seem.

Take my case for example.

I am over 50 and obviously haven't enjoyed the compulsory super scheme as long as young people will do in the future.

Further I never made a lot of money when i was young and of course I had a family and mortgage to pay as well then.

I am now according to you super rich am earning close to 300k a year but this has only happened over the last couple of years and wont continue for too many years.

Wouldn't it be more cost effective for the government to allow me to salary sacrifice as much as possible at the 15 percent so that they dont have to support me on a pension for 25 years?

A lot of people dont start making money til later in life and of course when they are younger have different priorities so a tax break for those trying to save for their retirement is hardly a burden on society especially if it means they wont be dependent on the government pension for many years.

Don't worry, you are the exact person the government is aiming at. They can't afford to have you stop work, you are the typical baby boomer who just gets on with it.
Funnily enough if all the labor politicians who brought these stupid limits in, hadn't been elected to office and were still in their union jobs they would be peesed off the same as us. Ferguson, Combett etc.

 

[todster]

Dear oh dear, how big are some of the chips on the shoulders out there (So_Cyn and todster).

Other posters on this thread are politely trying to point out facts in regard to taxes paid, benefits of hard work, reskilling and taking ownership of financial matters.

However you guys just want to stick to your bizzare view of what a higher income earners profile is, and that they are parasites in the tax system. May I suggest that you actually talk to someone who is a higher income earner and you will be totally blown away.

The gst I pay would be higher than average income persons tax. Then add my income tax plus SMSF taxes (introduced by the Hawke/Keating Gov't from memory). Some of my close friends and family members, pay more tax in their 3 monthly BAS statements, than I earn in a year!

Your view so Cynical re supporting the wealthy is just embarrassing. All professionals income is identifiable to the ATO, and taxed! Deductions are based on spending on buisiness needs, and that means foregone monies, AND, the supporting of other buisinesses and their staff.

We do not live in feudal times mate, or in a country where the aristocracy is supported (though we do sadly have to support many ALP and Green clowns).

I actually find your comment re the ALP/greens clawing back monies to lower income demographics as rather ofensive. Albeit I acknowledge your bravery in admitting to supporting this minority Gov't, as it continues on it's merry way of destroying this country. (I hear you Julia re they won't be in for much longer. However once the coalition clears up the mess, the electorate will then do what they always do and vote in another ALP Gov't!).

My offense is that what you are actually saying is that rather than taking ownership of your current situation by re skilling, working longer hours, changing occupations etc, you just want a Gov't that will continue to strip money away from achievers so that you can get more without having to work for it.

so you don't think I am a hypocrite, I left a cushy senior management job in the public service in my mid thirties. I had a degree in Economics and a post grad management degree. Both undertaken while working full time without any assistance. I then did a science degree, again while working fulltime, and started my own buisiness. My income was very hand to mouth for a number of years but with hard work and intelligence, I am now a higher income person of the type you despise.

Might I add that I also got rid of my managed funds in super, and set up and managed my own SMSF. Taking this from $60 k to almost $700K.

Nothing has come easy mate. I get nothing from the Gov't. When I retire I will get nothing from the Gov't. For you to sit back and vote a certain way hoping that I will have more tax dollars transferred to people who don't want to make ownership changes is offensive.

Now master Todster, your comments re plastic surgeons is also offensive. And being the good Catholic that I am, I pray that you don't have a major accident that requires their service. And by the way, given what a females body goes through in having children and breast feeding, how dare you villify a woman who wants her breasts back the way they were.

My other gripe is your attack on medical professionals. My younger brother is a cardiologist, and he deferred making a good income for over 12 years of education and training. I bet my left one that if you needed him to save your life, or the life of someone close to you, you would not begrudge him one cent of income. He also works very long hours and is on call 7 days a week, 24 hours a day unless he can get another cardiologist to cover for him.

And do you know another thing, I whinged to him about the amount of tax I pay, and in his gentle way he just smiled and I felt rather silly as his 3 month tax bill was more than my total yearly income.

I don't think anymore really needs to be said on this thread. If you are unhappy then take ownership and make changes. Be assurred that higher income earners do pay a very fair share of their income in tax, and that they are not demons who exist to make your lives poorer.

I wish you well and hope your stock selections are better than your political ones!

All the best to all the posters here

CROM

It's called takin the piss mate!
Pity your brother wasn't a proctologist he could have pulled your head out

 

[So_Cynical]

It's called takin the piss mate!
Pity your brother wasn't a proctologist he could have pulled your head out

I loled.

 

[Intrinsic Value]

Don't worry, you are the exact person the government is aiming at. They can't afford to have you stop work, you are the typical baby boomer who just gets on with it.
Funnily enough if all the labor politicians who brought these stupid limits in, hadn't been elected to office and were still in their union jobs they would be peesed off the same as us. Ferguson, Combett etc.

I dont want to get into bashing Labor or Liberal as of course it was Labor under Keating who initiated the scheme so kudos to them.

It was Costello under the Libs who inititated the 50k and 100k caps for salary sacrifice at 15 percent tax so kudos to him.

But unfortunately the current government is eyeing the super honey pot and what they will end up doing is anybody's guess. On the one hand they are telling us we should all save for our retirement but on the other hand they are taking away the incentives for people to do just that. It doesnt make sense.

Unfortunately the Liberals dont even want to continue the 50k cap for over 50s so I have little confidence in them either when it comes to super.

The bigger super gets the more dangerous a temptation it becomes for governments to try and get their hands on it. I trust neither of the major parties when it comes to super.

Unfortunately both major political parties are addicted to wastage of taxpayers money.
We should be running huge surpluses given our financial position.
But middle class welfare, disability pensions, over generous concessions to seniors who are not in any dire financial state coupled with general fiscal mismanagement have created a situation if it were not for the mining boom we would be in the same basket case as the US and some of the struggling European countries.