Who are you voting for?

chops_a_must · 22 November 2007

Aussie2Aussie said:
Just in case anyone thinks that the Liberals are the only ones that do this kind of stuff.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National...r-safe-ALP-seat/2005/01/26/1106415668219.html

http://lee.greens.org.au/index.php/content/view/1077/42/

http://mcv.e-p.net.au/news/gay-claim-dirty-tricks-campaign-2.html

http://www.wilderness.org.au/campaigns/forests/victoria/farce/

these after a not even really trying!

Pre-selections are notoriously bad for this kind of rubbish.

I can remember a famous Western Australian by the name of Graham Kierath, some of you will know that name, was handing out fake how to vote cards for the greens. What disturbed me most about that was seeing his very young family members knowingly doing it. I don't think I've ever seen such a peaceful person fire up so much, as I did Janet Woollard that day.

I've also been chased with a hammer by a local Liberal campaign manager. That was pretty scary. Wasn't even doing anything. Just put my flag down and off we went. The police weren't too impressed that's for sure.

Numerous candidates have been beaten up. Could keep going on.

But in general, it appears the greens and labor seem to get the worst of it. They're probably too pacifistic to do anything back. Or not as inclined to do as much in the first place. Anecdotally anyway.

Gundini · 22 November 2007

Aussiejeff said:
Unfortunately, you forgot to distribute the preferences of the "minor parties" in the ASF poll - you know - the ones that say "Other - with a Liberal or Labor preference"... and I'm pretty sure most all of the Green preferences would go to Labor too.

So that would make it about 50.56 Coalition to 49.44 Labor on a "2 party preferred" basis - a whole lot closer than what you may be thinking.

AJ

Not true, actually, I did distribute those preferences, but didn't add the Green vote or Nationals vote. So, if the Greens get all of the Labor vote preferences,(a massive 5.35%) and Liberal get all the National preferences,(a minor 1.07%) then the current poll looks like this:

Labor 50.27%

Liberal 49.73%

which still represents excellent value at $4 something on Liberal. (For the betting Man/Woman that is)

Woodchips · 22 November 2007

skint said:
Back then there were those saying the sky would fall under Labor and as you recognise, it was Labor that made the reforms. Nothing to date suggests things would be significantly different IMO.

Probably because the memory of the sky actually falling in under Whitlam was fresh in their minds. : But OK, fair enough.

skint said:
There is a mountain of evidence to indicate these groups have been hammered.

If there is a mountain of evidence they must be hiding pretty well skint because to be honest I hear a lot of people talk about it in theory, but in practice they cant produce the figures. There will inevitably be some people that are worse off in certain circumstances, thats the nature of reform. But the numbers ive seen suggest that overall, the country is benefiting from these changes. Just as most economists now agree that the country has benefited overall from the introduction of the GST. Who knows, the figures might tell a different story in 5 years, but right now the signs are positive.

skint said:
You only have to look to the US to see the problems with an entrenched underclass that results from a Howardesque mentality.

That is a very general statement that once again is not backed up by any evidence. There are many differences between the US and Australia, and there are many reason why the US is in the state that its in. And you're putting it all down to a 'Howardesque mentality'? Not even sure what you mean by that.

If you want compare Australia with a country that has undertaken significant IR reforms, you only have to look across the TAsman. New Zealand put through 3 phases of workplace reforms back in 1993 - there was actually a substantial increase in productivity post reform, contrary to all of the scare mongering that was going on before they were introduced. And the fact is that New Zealand went much further with their reforms than we are with Workchoices. Interestingly, Helen Clarke kept all of those workplace reforms under the next Labour government.

skint said:
Workchoices is not about productivity. Its about ideology.

You can call it whatever you like, but the fact is that Workchoices will have an impact on productivity. Some economic estimates suggest that reform to unfair dismissal rules can increase productivity by up to 2.4%. Its all in the literature.

Anyway, I wont be able to comment here till after the election, good luck to everyone and I hope your team wins. As long as that team isnt the Greens.

WC

noirua · 22 November 2007

Don't forget, that a strong mining and oil industry, backed up by continued increases in capacity at Australias Eastern Ports is absolutely vital to the countries growth and prosperity and of all Australians.
The Liberal leader, John Howard is a steady hand in this respect.

nioka · 22 November 2007

noirua said:
.
The Liberal leader, John Howard is a steady hand in this respect.

He certainly thinks so. But then he isn't going to stay on is he? I can't see why Rudd can't do better. Rudd will get on with our best customer prospects and maybe we will all be able to share in the prosperity of the nation.

Aussiejeff · 22 November 2007

Aussiejeff said:
Thanks, skint, for those calming, soothing words (MEDIA BLACKOUT... hooray!)

I can't wait to see what Johnny Santa pulls out of his sack AT THE LAST MINUTE before the blackout commences .... mebbe a spare "extra" 10 Billion for even more tax cuts?

AJ

Bit of a larf having to quote oneself, but the temptation was too great after seeing this news item today re: Final Fling Pork Barreling....

"THE Coalition has pledged to pump another $7.3 billion into the transport infrastructure fund".

I got close to the $10 Billion Pork Barrell call .... anyone wanna throw me a bag of peanuts for a prize??

Any more for any more????

Ka-ching, ka-ching.......

LOL

AJ

PS: If only stock price movements were soooooo predictable.

Aussie2Aussie · 22 November 2007

nioka said:
He certainly thinks so. But then he isn't going to stay on is he? I can't see why Rudd can't do better. Rudd will get on with our best customer prospects and maybe we will all be able to share in the prosperity of the nation.

Who knows Rudd, I dont and the Australian community does'nt either. Labor have run a fantastic campaign and have been more disciplined than I have ever seen them, part of that is the image work on a man that is presenting himself as an alternative Prime Minister who has not been allowed to truly show himself.

The press have a lot to answer for this as they are blinded by the prospect of seeing Howard off; never sympathetic to conservative politics anyway, they see a good relationship with a new Labor Government as more important than doing what they should be - investigating and challenging. If the Liberals were appearing in the polls as even a 50/50 chance, Rudd would be under much more scrutiny.

noirua · 22 November 2007

nioka said:
He certainly thinks so. But then he isn't going to stay on is he? I can't see why Rudd can't do better. Rudd will get on with our best customer prospects and maybe we will all be able to share in the prosperity of the nation.

At the moment, Australia sells all the coal, oil, gas, iron ore etc., it can possibly get through the ports. The next few years needs continued expansion at many ports, Newcastle in particular, and I remain unconvinced that Kevin Rudd is the man to go full out for Australia, in this respect, and has, I believe, a stronger green agenda than meets the eye.

nioka · 22 November 2007

noirua said:
At the moment, Australia sells all the coal, oil, gas, iron ore etc., it can possibly get through the ports. The next few years needs continued expansion at many ports, Newcastle in particular, and I remain unconvinced that Kevin Rudd is the man to go full out for Australia, in this respect, and has, I believe, a stronger green agenda than meets the eye.

What did Howard do in that regard in the last 11 years? Why is it in such a mess.

noirua · 22 November 2007

nioka said:
What did Howard do in that regard in the last 11 years? Why is it in such a mess.

The reason for the problems in getting the go-ahead for the Newcastle Port expansion lies solely with the ruling Labor Party of New South Wales. They were pushed for nearly three years to agree a go-ahead by the coal mining companies. Now the port has 39 ships waiting with four in dock and this is down from 70 ships and this only due to cutting back the miners quotas.

Rafa · 22 November 2007

the whole pamphlet thing has really put a sour taste in many peoples mouths...

whilst most parties do their fair share of dirty tricks, one thing it does highlight, is the fact that the liberals, esp under howard, are never backward in slagging of minority groups and playing on people fears in the name of political gain.

i.e. there is no regard for collateral damage, people outside the political arena are hurt. That is the big difference in tactics. Those in the political system are paid to cop it... not members of the public.

such sort of immoral disregard for minority groups is very concerning, but is not unexpected from the liberals under howard.

THE sister of a Bali bomb victim says she is angry over the way tragedy was used in bogus election flyers distributed by Liberal party supporters in western Sydney.

Georgia Lysaght lost her brother Scott, 34, in the October 2002 bombings that killed 202 people, mostly western holidaymakers.

She said she heard about the distribution of the pamphlets in the marginal Sydney seat of Lindsay on television last night.

"To be honest my first reaction when I saw it was, I was actually really angry," Ms Lysaght said.

"How dare they use that as part of a political stunt."

The leaflet was headed "The Islamic Australia Federation" and reads: "We gratefully acknowledge Labor's support to forgive our Muslim brothers who have been unjustly sentenced to death for the Bali bombings," the leaflet reads.

Mr Lysaght was living in Jakarta and had gone to Bali to play in a rugby match when he was killed.

"Obviously I don't believe a word of it (the letter) but the damage, to an extent, has already been done," Ms Lysaght said.

"The thing that always worries me when something like this comes up is that we see a backlash. All of a sudden there's all this anti-Muslim, anti-Indonesian ... sentiment in the community ... it serves to flare up these sort of tensions.

"Whoever is responsible for this has done a disservice to the people who are involved in the Bali bombings and done a disservice to the Islamic and Indonesian community in Australia as well."

Kauri · 22 November 2007

Bad timing... a week earlier and we could have had another "children overboard" and "Tampa" rolled into one..
Cheers
..........Kauri

<H2>Navy in high-seas rescue of stricken fishing boat

Click to expand...

21st November 2007, 17:00 WST

Sixteen Indonesians rescued from a leaking fishing boat by the Australian navy were tonight being taken to Christmas Island for assessment by immigration authorities.
The three men, three women and 10 children aboard the wooden vessel were picked up by HMAS Ararat yesterday after their engine failed in rough conditions in the Timor Sea.

Using a makeshift sail, they were able to reach the Jabiru Venture, a converted 140,000-tonne oil tanker used as a floating oil production facility, 650 km west of Darwin.
A rescue ensued during which six of the overcrowded boat’s passengers and two of HMAS Ararat’s crew were thrown into the water.
“As the boat started to sink more quickly, the remaining passengers also entered the water,” defence spokesman Andrew Nikolic said.
“All were recovered safely and a subsequent assessment revealed that no injuries were sustained.”

</H2>

The Mint Man · 22 November 2007

noirua said:
The reason for the problems in getting the go-ahead for the Newcastle Port expansion lies solely with the ruling Labor Party of New South Wales.

And some of the same people that voted the Iemma government in are going to vote for Rudd on the weekend. east to west Labor governments, what a great idea.
These people sure like punishment!
The states have also been uncooperative with the Liberal government over the last 12 months or so in the lead up to this election, no doubt at the request of Kevin Rudd just so he can say that Labor wall to wall would actually be a good thing.

Kevin Rudd has been going on about new leadership yet he has basically copied the Liberals each step of the way, how is that new leadership? Kevin Rudd (and the rest of the Labor party) has been against almost everything the Liberal government has done up until now, strange that don't you think?
I can only think of one reason why Kevin Rudd and the other heavies in the Labor party have suddenly decided to tow the Liberal line.... because they know they would not have a hope in hell of winning this election if they took their true beliefs and displayed them to the people, if they did that then this election would be more about the parties as a whole and their respective policies as opposed to the man.
Like Peter Garrett said, they will just change it all once they get in, Garrett is a part of the front bench and he knows things only the front bench would know. I truly believe this remark was a warning to Australian voters. Yes he did say that it was just a joke but who is to know if he is telling the truth or just trying to save his @rse? As every good comedian knows, there is a bit of truth behind every joke!

Now just on voting for the man.... I don't understand this concept of voting for the new, fresh face, after all you should not be voting for a man, you should also consider the team. Just like a coach, be it cricket, rugby, NRL,AFL, soccer, net ball etc. they all have one aim and that is to pick the best possible team. Sure the captain is important but he is nothing without the skill of his team mates..... and lets be honest, when you compare Labor to the Liberals, well lets just say they are worlds apart. Even Labor supporters know deep down that their team has not got what it takes when it comes to the crunch.
And come to the crunch it will!

Cheers

mark70920 · 22 November 2007

The Mint Man said:
Just like a coach, be it cricket, rugby, NRL,AFL, soccer, net ball etc. they all have one aim and that is to pick the best possible team. Sure the captain is important but he is nothing without the skill of his team mates.....
Cheers

Even the Australian Cricket Selectors know you can't keep the same Captain forever and if the Captain does not have the support of his team , well he is a lame duck. But most of our modern Captains have taken the hint when tapped on the shoulder and retired on top. Allan Border , Mark Taylor , Steve Waugh all mature enough to accept advise that their time was up.

nioka · 22 November 2007

noirua said:
The reason for the problems in getting the go-ahead for the Newcastle Port expansion lies solely with the ruling Labor Party of New South Wales. They were pushed for nearly three years to agree a go-ahead by the coal mining companies. Now the port has 39 ships waiting with four in dock and this is down from 70 ships and this only due to cutting back the miners quotas.

The question still is "What did Howard do about it in 11 years and what will he do now." Maybe Rudd will work with the labor and get something going.
Maybe we have all Labour state governments because of the Federal Liberals. Maybe if we have Labor federally then we will get some Liberal states. I do not like our State Government but I like the Liberals federally a lot less.
Nothing I have seen on these forums so far has convinced this long term Liberal supporter from defection. Nothing at all. Menzies must be writhing in his grave with their antics.

Aussie2Aussie · 22 November 2007

nioka said:
Nothing I have seen on these forums so far has convinced this long term Liberal supporter from defection. Nothing at all.

Sure

moneymajix · 22 November 2007

HELP WITH DECIDING HOW TO VOTE

http://www.howshouldivote.com.au/

Enter your postcode and dive straight in to our quick twenty question quiz. It will match YOUR answers to the candidates in YOUR electorate and produce YOUR own unique personalised how-to-vote card based on which candidates are most like YOU!

How does it work?
We've asked every candidate in each electorate to answer twenty questions that cover a wide range of issues that are of interest to voters. Now you can answer the same quiz and compare your views to the people you are considering voting for.

I just answered the quizz. The person most aligned with my answers to the quizz is probably not someone I had seriously considered. Interesting.

nioka · 22 November 2007

moneymajix said:
HELP WITH DECIDING HOW TO VOTE

http://www.howshouldivote.com.au/

Enter your postcode and dive straight in to our quick twenty question quiz. It will match YOUR answers to the candidates in YOUR electorate and produce YOUR own unique personalised how-to-vote card based on which candidates are most like YOU!

How does it work?
We've asked every candidate in each electorate to answer twenty questions that cover a wide range of issues that are of interest to voters. Now you can answer the same quiz and compare your views to the people you are considering voting for.

I just answered the quizz. The person most aligned with my answers to the quizz is probably not someone I had seriously considered. Interesting.

Interesting. Labor came out well ahead. An independant close behind. Confirms my intentions.

Aedo · 22 November 2007

moneymajix said:
HELP WITH DECIDING HOW TO VOTE

http://www.howshouldivote.com.au/

Enter your postcode and dive straight in to our quick twenty question quiz. It will match YOUR answers to the candidates in YOUR electorate and produce YOUR own unique personalised how-to-vote card based on which candidates are most like YOU!

How does it work?
We've asked every candidate in each electorate to answer twenty questions that cover a wide range of issues that are of interest to voters. Now you can answer the same quiz and compare your views to the people you are considering voting for.

I just answered the quizz. The person most aligned with my answers to the quizz is probably not someone I had seriously considered. Interesting.

Only gave results for the green/labor/christian democrats - no other candidates had completed a questionaire.

Basically useless

Aussie2Aussie · 22 November 2007

What a load of crap, the site is run by Get-Up an anti Liberal activist group.
Below is, surprise, surprise the results for my seat...although I answered it with intent in the most extreme anti Labor manner.

Recommended preferencing.
7 PETERS, LindsayThe Australian Greens
5 GOLDFINCH, PeterAustralian Democrats (NSW)
2 LEYONHJELM, David Liberty & Democracy Party
9 SPENCER, Gavin Citizens Electoral Council (NSW)
13 WATERSON, VictorOne Nation (NSW)
12 MARKWELL, Lorraine Family First (NSW)
3 CORDINER, Graeme Independent (NSW)
4 ALLEN, David L Independent (NSW)
8 TAHIR, Yusuf Independent (NSW)
11 HOWARD, John Liberal Party of Australia
6 TRACANELLI, Margherita Climate Change Coalition
10 PEEBLES, Robyn Christian Democratic Party (Fred Nile Group)
1 MCKEW, MaxinePARTY: Australian Labor Party (NSW)

Based on your answers to our candidate match, Maxine MCKEW, in selected Bennelong electorate is best suited for you. For more information on Maxine MCKEW View Profile

Who are you voting for?

Who will you vote for?

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chops_a_must

Printing My Own Money

Gundini

Woodchips

noirua

nioka

Aussiejeff

Aussie2Aussie

noirua

nioka

noirua

Rafa

Kauri

E/W Learner

The Mint Man

mark70920

nioka

Aussie2Aussie

moneymajix

nioka

Aedo

Aussie2Aussie

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