Where is/can Donald Trump take US (sic)?

basilio · 8 September 2018

Tisme said:
Facts predicated on innuendo and fantasy don't really cut as facts.

For any of us to make a value judgement of Trump corruption we need verifiable facts and they won't avail themselves to date.

Back to alternative truths again Tisme ? Or just acutely selective seeing and hearing.

In any case the anonymous Mad House insider story isn't about the corruption of Donald Trump.

It is about his fitness to be President and the (alleged) efforts of his staff to protect him and everyone else from the worst consequences of his intentions.
Now of course this story may be a total lie. Just a fabrication from the New York Times to undermine Donald Trump.
Or the writer could be a total liar. He just wanted to create some sort of mayhem for Donald Trump.
Is this the reality you wish to believe ?
On a similar note Bob Woodward is about to release his book on the Trump Whitehouse after hundreds of hours of converstaion with White House staff. Will these all be fabrications?

Is Bob Woodward a calculated liar ?
And then earlier this year Michael Wolff broke his own story on the Trump Presidency again based on interviews with many admin staff. Was this all fabrication ? Was he also a liar ?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...de-the-trump-white-house-michael-wolff-review
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/27/media-madness-book-howard-kurtz-donald-trump

Bob Woodward's book details Trump's chaotic and dysfunctional White House
Fear is based on hundreds of hours of conversations with key players, according to the author, who uncovered the Watergate scandal

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/04/bob-woodward-book-fear-donald-trump-white-house

basilio · 8 September 2018

Donald Trump and Corruption. Enriching himself through the office of President.
Consider the following.

A Year in Trump Corruption
Here’s every time Trump has profited off the presidency.

by Nicole Narea
Magazine

Joshua Alvarez
Editor’s note: For our Jan/Feb/March 2018 issue, Nicole Narea walks through the ways in which Donald Trump spent his first year in office brazenly enriching himself and his businesses, making a mockery of the notion that the interests of the American people should come before the president’s own bottom line. While past presidents divested of their assets or placed them in a blind trust, Trump merely shifted day-to-day control of his business onto his sons, who continue to brief him, and placed his assets in a trust that he can withdraw from whenever he wants. Read Nicole’s article for an explanation of which conduct is clearly unconstitutional and which is technically legal but deeply improper.

The rate of misbehavior, by both the president and those hoping to curry his favor, has been dizzying to keep track of. Mainstream news organizations have done an impressive job documenting each instance of profiteering, but as far as we can tell, none have pulled them all together in one place. The following is our attempt to do just that. If there are any examples we’ve missed, please email us at editors@washingtonmonthly.com.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/january-february-march-2018/a-year-in-trump-corruption/

luutzu · 8 September 2018

moXJO said:
Bush was as bad as Obama. In fact they were basically on the same page with continuing a lot of stuff.

Judges are often drafted in on their expertise with the Constitution. I'm sure Kavanaugh was friendly to the bush camp though.
I have no doubt all sides would love to follow the bits of the constitution they love. And get rid of the bits they don't like.

I supposed no political leaders should be judged on how they treat foreigners and barbarians. I mean, if that were the case pretty much all political leaders throughout history would be guilty of crimes against humanity.

So let's be generous, and Machiavellian, and let them pass that one hurdle. Let St. Peter decide that one.

Obama is, yea, same as Bush Jr. regarding the American plebs. But he speaks better though. Trump is no match by a long mile when it comes to teleprompters delivery. Trump, there are two of them old man.

----------
Maybe judges on the lower courts are picked for their understanding of the law. The higher ones get there because they've shown themselves to be useful to certain group of people (who picked them).

Any idiot can know and understand the law. It take a special kind of idiot to know it so well they could spin it however you like.

With the new US chiefs... kiss all that labour, union rights; environmental protection etc. etc. goodbye.

Good thing all Americans own stocks and play the financial markets. Those that don't will get properly stuffed.

moXJO · 8 September 2018

basilio said:
Donald Trump and Corruption. Enriching himself through the office of President.
Consider the following.

A Year in Trump Corruption
Here’s every time Trump has profited off the presidency.

by Nicole Narea
Magazine
Joshua Alvarez
Editor’s note: For our Jan/Feb/March 2018 issue, Nicole Narea walks through the ways in which Donald Trump spent his first year in office brazenly enriching himself and his businesses, making a mockery of the notion that the interests of the American people should come before the president’s own bottom line. While past presidents divested of their assets or placed them in a blind trust, Trump merely shifted day-to-day control of his business onto his sons, who continue to brief him, and placed his assets in a trust that he can withdraw from whenever he wants. Read Nicole’s article for an explanation of which conduct is clearly unconstitutional and which is technically legal but deeply improper.

The rate of misbehavior, by both the president and those hoping to curry his favor, has been dizzying to keep track of. Mainstream news organizations have done an impressive job documenting each instance of profiteering, but as far as we can tell, none have pulled them all together in one place. The following is our attempt to do just that. If there are any examples we’ve missed, please email us at editors@washingtonmonthly.com.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/january-february-march-2018/a-year-in-trump-corruption/

"Technically legal".... so legal but going to bitchh about it anyway.

basilio · 8 September 2018

moXJO said:
"Technically legal".... so legal but going to bitchh about it anyway.

Unwilling to note the sections which outline totally corrupt practices ?

Corruption Type 1: Foreign Emoluments
“No person holding any office of profit or trust under [the United States], shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.”
U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 9

17 examples

Corruption Type 2: Domestic Emoluments
“The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.”

–U.S. Constitution, Article II, Section 1

24 examples

Darc Knight · 8 September 2018

I admire your tenacity Bas, but you know Mo and other Trump fan boys emulate Trump's tactics and will argue the Sun rises in the West if it suits.

luutzu · 8 September 2018

basilio said:
Donald Trump and Corruption. Enriching himself through the office of President.
Consider the following.

A Year in Trump Corruption
Here’s every time Trump has profited off the presidency.

by Nicole Narea
Magazine
Joshua Alvarez
Editor’s note: For our Jan/Feb/March 2018 issue, Nicole Narea walks through the ways in which Donald Trump spent his first year in office brazenly enriching himself and his businesses, making a mockery of the notion that the interests of the American people should come before the president’s own bottom line. While past presidents divested of their assets or placed them in a blind trust, Trump merely shifted day-to-day control of his business onto his sons, who continue to brief him, and placed his assets in a trust that he can withdraw from whenever he wants. Read Nicole’s article for an explanation of which conduct is clearly unconstitutional and which is technically legal but deeply improper.

The rate of misbehavior, by both the president and those hoping to curry his favor, has been dizzying to keep track of. Mainstream news organizations have done an impressive job documenting each instance of profiteering, but as far as we can tell, none have pulled them all together in one place. The following is our attempt to do just that. If there are any examples we’ve missed, please email us at editors@washingtonmonthly.com.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/january-february-march-2018/a-year-in-trump-corruption/

That's one long list.

A list on the Trump's kids would definitely be longer.

There's Ivanka and her husband earning some $150M alone during Daddy's first year in office.
Both while they act as senior advisors to the president of the United States (or Dad).

Before Daddy became the man, their businesses were poor to failing. After taking on responsibilities for women's rights, world peace, peace in the Middle East, women entrepreneurialship and empowerment... their profit picks up like someone's paying them for access.

If it weren't clear before, it's in your face obvious how corrupt American politics is.

I mean, Chelsea got some a $250K job right out of uni; hubby got a couple hedge fund to play with. But those are just peanuts compare to the Trump clan.

moXJO · 8 September 2018

basilio said:
Unwilling to note the sections which outline totally corrupt practices ?

Corruption Type 1: Foreign Emoluments
“No person holding any office of profit or trust under [the United States], shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.”
U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 9

17 examples

Corruption Type 2: Domestic Emoluments
“The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.”

–U.S. Constitution, Article II, Section 1

24 examples

When is he getting charged again?

moXJO · 8 September 2018

Darc Knight said:
I admire your tenacity Bas, but you know Mo and other Trump fan boys emulate Trump's tactics and will argue the Sun rises in the West if it suits.

Pretty sure posting alternative facts like outlining "technically legal" as corrupt practices, is bs wrapped as fact. How many other politicians are being lambasted over "technically legal" strategies?

I'm not saying its right. But it's not new.

basilio · 8 September 2018

Darc Knight said:
I admire your tenacity Bas, but you know Mo and other Trump fan boys emulate Trump's tactics and will argue the Sun rises in the West if it suits.

Which, in a nutshell, is why there are so many better ways for me to spend my time.

basilio · 8 September 2018

moXJO said:
When is he getting charged again?

When the Justice Department have the guts to follow the law.

At some stage moxjo one has to look at clearly criminal behaviour and acknowledge that reality. The facts that people are currently getting away with these activities doesn't change the reality of the behaviour.

I will acknowledge that there are grey areas in politics. Trying to run a completly honest political system is an ideal, rather than a reality. For the sake of discussion that third section of dodgy deals around Trump probably fits that catergory.

I suggest the facts are on the ground to show that Donald Trump use of office to enrich himself and his family has completely trashed the legal and understood expectations of the Presidency in regard to emoluments.

moXJO · 8 September 2018

.

basilio said:
When the Justice Department have the guts to follow the law.

At some stage moxjo one has to look at clearly criminal behaviour and acknowledge that reality. The facts that people are currently getting away with these activities doesn't change the reality of the behaviour.

I will acknowledge that there are grey areas in politics. Trying to run a completly honest political system is an ideal, rather than a reality. For the sake of discussion that third section of dodgy deals around Trump probably fits that catergory.

I suggest the facts are on the ground to show that Donald Trump use of office to enrich himself and his family has completely trashed the legal and understood expectations of the Presidency in regard to emoluments.

I have no doubt he has set up a structure to do just that. But if it wasn't in the confines of the law he would be butt raped. There are literally thousands of progressive lawyers that are being paid to make his life hell by billionaires that hate him.
So insinuating he is corrupt is another midterm tactic.

Personally I think he dances along the line between legal and illegal. But personal opinion isn't fact and shouldn't pose as fact.

basilio · 8 September 2018

Criminal behaviour allowed to flourish

If we go back to the 1920's we can see how gangsters like Al Capone ran huge criminal empires from their public hotel rooms.

"Everyone" knew what was happening. The public, the police, the politicians. The politicians and the police either took the bribes, looked away - or took the consequences. You could equally argue then "When is Al going to get charged ? "

It took a very small group of "Untouchables " to bring Al Capone to justice. And then the one crime they decided to make stick was tax evasion. I don't think it's a surprise that current investigations into the raft of crooked Trump confidantes is focusing on the money trails and tax evasion that appears to have happened.

moXJO · 8 September 2018

basilio said:
Criminal behaviour allowed to flourish

If we go back to the 1920's we can see how gangsters like Al Capone ran huge criminal empires from their public hotel rooms.

"Everyone" knew what was happening. The public, the police, the politicians. The politicians and the police either took the bribes, looked away - or took the consequences. You could equally argue then "When is Al going to get charged ? "

It took a very small group of "Untouchables " to bring Al Capone to justice. And then the one crime they decided to make stick was tax evasion. I don't think it's a surprise that current investigations into the raft of crooked Trump confidantes is focusing on the money trails and tax evasion that appears to have happened.

Capone was an outright criminal who had everyone in the pocket. He worked in cash. And could kill or bribe anyone that was a threat. Harder to chase a paper trail back then as well.

Trump is being accused of corruption because of the way he structures, like they all do.

If we were going along that route, then why are all the politicians that structure not being investigated?

Clintons, bushes and all the rest have skeletons that are wrapped up under a neat structure that makes it legal. Clinton donations stand out (bribes anyone).

SirRumpole · 8 September 2018

moXJO said:
Clintons, bushes and all the rest have skeletons that are wrapped up under a neat structure that makes it legal. Clinton donations stand out (bribes anyone).

Dick Cheney & Haliburton ?

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/28/us/a-closer-look-at-cheney-and-halliburton.html

moXJO · 8 September 2018

SirRumpole said:
Dick Cheney & Haliburton ?

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/28/us/a-closer-look-at-cheney-and-halliburton.html

Muller, Comey and lockheed martin was a suss looking event as well. And that was huge money.

luutzu · 8 September 2018

moXJO said:
Capone was an outright criminal who had everyone in the pocket. He worked in cash. And could kill or bribe anyone that was a threat. Harder to chase a paper trail back then as well.

Trump is being accused of corruption because of the way he structures, like they all do.

If we were going along that route, then why are all the politicians that structure not being investigated?

Clintons, bushes and all the rest have skeletons that are wrapped up under a neat structure that makes it legal. Clinton donations stand out (bribes anyone).

Two wrong don't make a right?

You're right that they're all corrupt. That's why all the established republicans loses to Trump; why Clinton lost to Bernie and have to cheat to win. Then lost to Trump for he promised to empty the swamp.

Evens in Iraq this past week never really register with Western politicians. Maybe they reckon the newly empowered and properly militarised police (and military personnel if needed) would quell any and all unrest... I guess living in a bubble doesn't give you access to the History Channel.

luutzu · 8 September 2018

SirRumpole said:
Dick Cheney & Haliburton ?

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/28/us/a-closer-look-at-cheney-and-halliburton.html

Wait... they already awarded contracts for oil before the invasion to liberate the Iraqis? Priorities eh.

Haliburton gave him a few million stock options before he left to serve his country. I guess he'd be too busy to wonder how much he'd made if Haliburton's stock goes up from no-bid, cost-plus contracts.

moXJO · 8 September 2018

luutzu said:
Two wrong don't make a right?

You're right that they're all corrupt. That's why all the established republicans loses to Trump; why Clinton lost to Bernie and have to cheat to win. Then lost to Trump for he promised to empty the swamp.

Who said anyone did anything wrong. Pretty sure they followed the rules.

Democrats of old are losing to the new generation of up and comers for midterm selection. Gop had a similar thing happening during Obama.

Is it going to be better?
I doubt it. Greed, stupidity, ego and power trips are the only things you can bank on.

I suppose trump does take the focus off the rest of them.
But he has exposed the inner workings of:
Government
Lobbyists
Media
Business

Intentional or not, people have been made aware of the propaganda that oozes out from all sides.

luutzu · 8 September 2018

moXJO said:
Who said anyone did anything wrong. Pretty sure they followed the rules.

Democrats of old are losing to the new generation of up and comers for midterm selection. Gop had a similar thing happening during Obama.

Is it going to be better?
I doubt it. Greed, stupidity, ego and power trips are the only things you can bank on.

I suppose trump does take the focus off the rest of them.
But he has exposed the inner workings of:
Government
Lobbyists
Media
Business

Intentional or not, people have been made aware of the propaganda that oozes out from all sides.

Yea, don't think the new, tanner, group of democrats are going to change much. That's even if they honestly wanted to.

With bankers, inside established interests tapping into your every move... a politician have got to be a saint to not have any dirt on that can be use against them. Those that are saintly won't be in politics in the first place, so the plebs better do what they always do if they want change... take to the street and scare the crap out of their masters.

I'm beginning to think that the establishment will make Trump a scrapegoat. Not that he's innocent or saintly... not that he haven't done them, and his own family, trillions of favours.... Just that the image he portray doesn't suit with the national narrative of a perfect, saintly, enlightened God-president.

It would be suicidal for the ruling elite to have the head of state an obviously slimey lying idiot. It doesn't serve the empire and that fascade of enlightened people's representative and imperial majesty PR stunts.

Not that the majority doesn't know it. Just that Trump makes it almost impossible to spin it any other way. I mean, with Obama and Billy Clinton.. .they're so smooth and polite you can pull the bs off. With Trump, even his stupid hair give them a hard time making it look not-too-alive.

Just read how a "handful" of Iraqis in Basra take to the street, break into gov't offices and lit it alight. They apparently, "perceive" and alledged political corruption, not giving two-farks about the people, jobs, infrastructure, clean drinking water.

Where is/can Donald Trump take US (sic)?

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