When do YOU sell?

[Tysonboss1]

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does it really matter what the label is? end of the day you all earn money buying and selling shares regardless of time spent holding them or methods employed?



?

Yes it does matter, Because the two types operate in completely different ways. You asked the original question " When do you sell". I guess you were trying to gain some insights or some ideas so that you would know when was the right time to sell.

The reason I asked whether you were an investor or a trader is because the two classes will have different buy and sell trigger.

Traders are largely mechanical, using varying types of charts and market movement data, and somtimes wild speculation on investor attitudes. If you had said you were a trader who knew nothing about the underlying security, I would have said you should sell as soon as you see a decent profit, or the data you used for you entry signal has reversed or the stock has started to trade down.

However if you said you were an investor with a good understanding of the business I would have said you should sell when the stock has become priced dangerously high compared to it's underlying value, or the company earning power is changing fundmentally or you can see better oppotunities else where. etc,etc.

I would suggest knowing the difference between intelligent investing, intelligent trading and out right speculation is very important, But if you don't think so thats fine too.

 

[Tysonboss1]

at this point i have no definite plan that i reckon would recoup the losses in the short term so I lose nothing by leaving them as they are, for now anyway. Should an opportunity that i feel would help even things out come along then yeah i'll probably sell for whatever price and jump ship as it were.

I would go back and look at each stock and weigh it up on it's own merits and ask myself "would I be willing to put fresh capital into this stock as it stands" if the answer is no, then sell them.

I don't know what the companies are, but you may find they are good businesses, that you just unfortunatly through lack of knowledge over paid for, and at their current levels may see solid returns over time and it is worth while keeping them.

If you look back through them and find they are rubbish, then you have to sell them.

You don't want to fall into the trap of selling the flowers and keeping the weeds.

 

[burglar]

does it really matter what the label is?

Since I came to ASF I have learnt many labels. I don't want to be fixated by any of them.

Here is what's good about labels.
You can define them.
You can discuss them, agreeing or disagreeing.
You can convey a lot.

You can google them.

Here is one I Googled earlier (I learnt it from nunthewiser)
"zero cost averaging"
http://thepatternsite.com/ZeroCostAverage.html

 

[So_Cynical]

Here is one I Googled earlier (I learnt it from nunthewiser)
"zero cost averaging"
http://thepatternsite.com/ZeroCostAverage.html

Thanks for the link Burglar...up until today i didn't know that i have been trading a very similar strategy to zero cost averaging for almost 2 years. i use the multiple trade strategy, however my plan was never to get my cost to zero as im happy to have some capital left in the stocks i hold.

My longer term plan is to reduce my capital per share to around 20% with anything from 3 to 6 trades per stock over many years..eventually building a portfolio of over 35 stocks, im 2 years into a 8 to 10 year plan.

 

[breaker]

IMHO 35 stocks is to many why tie up capital in that many stocks when you can just have 3,4,5 good performers and they are eaisier to watch

 

[Tysonboss1]

Which class are long term TLS holders in Tyson ?

 

[Market Depth]

lol never thought this thread would get so big

this is what you were talking about in that other thread i asked questions right M D ?
if i removed the initial that would be 3/4 of the 45 shares... leaving me with like... 12
would that be worth it? I really like and understand that principle and it is an excellent way of using "their money" similar to only using your winnings at the casino to gamble.
Do you think that it is still effective that way irrespective of the scale?

It's a start. The 12 shares are worth around $600. You could then use the funds from the sale of CBA to speculate on some growth stocks, taking profits and placing them into a cash management account, to buy more CBA when the time is right. That's what I've always done. You'd be surprised how quick you can build up a holding in a company, that essentially costs you nothing. The only caveat is you must pay attention to your target stock for the longer period of time, and have funds available to take advantage of a buying opportunity.

Some people collect things, I collect stock My latest collection addition is Toll Holdings, and thus far it's doing quite well. And so far a worthy addition to the collection.

 

[TabJockey]

At the top!.

Just kidding. Start selling at my DCF per share number. Usually finish selling when its 10% up on that number. Usually drops after that but not always.

 

[ChaoSI]

It's a start. The 12 shares are worth around $600. You could then use the funds from the sale of CBA to speculate on some growth stocks, taking profits and placing them into a cash management account, to buy more CBA when the time is right. That's what I've always done. You'd be surprised how quick you can build up a holding in a company, that essentially costs you nothing. The only caveat is you must pay attention to your target stock for the longer period of time, and have funds available to take advantage of a buying opportunity.

Some people collect things, I collect stock My latest collection addition is Toll Holdings, and thus far it's doing quite well. And so far a worthy addition to the collection.

i think i'll lean towards this method.. i my head it seems like a happy medium or holding and of acquiring profits.

but i meant i would have 12 LEFT out of 45so i'd be selling 33

 

[burglar]

IMHO 35 stocks is to many why tie up capital in that many stocks when you can just have 3,4,5 good performers and they are eaisier to watch

breaker,
I believe what So_Cynical has done is micro manage 3-6 shares at a time until they owe him very little, then accumulate 3-6 more.

In 10 years, he plans to accumulate 35 shares which he need not watch at all closely ... because they will each owe him next to nix.

Did I get that right?

 

[skc]

Since I came to ASF I have learnt many labels. I don't want to be fixated by any of them.

Here is what's good about labels.
You can define them.
You can discuss them, agreeing or disagreeing.
You can convey a lot.

You can google them.

Here is one I Googled earlier (I learnt it from nunthewiser)
"zero cost averaging"
http://thepatternsite.com/ZeroCostAverage.html

Zero cost averaging... that has be the stupidest way of thinking.

'Even if the company goes bankrupt it has cost you nothing'.

Money is money. Whether they come from your bank account or the market. You need to treat them the same way.

If you think the share will go up, you won't sell. If you think the share will go down, you don't hold. If you think the share will do very little, then you should probably sit on the sideline.

In no scenario does it warrant 'zero cost averaging'.

 

[So_Cynical]

IMHO 35 stocks is to many why tie up capital in that many stocks when you can just have 3,4,5 good performers and they are eaisier to watch

i have no problem watching 100 stocks, also because im low cost averaging im buying (or at least trying to) buy significant bottoms in the price cycle....watching for big bottoms in only 5 stocks would be about as taxing and exciting as watching paint dry.

breaker,
I believe what So_Cynical has done is micro manage 3-6 shares at a time until they owe him very little, then accumulate 3-6 more.

In 10 years, he plans to accumulate 35 shares which he need not watch at all closely ... because they will each owe him next to nix.

Did I get that right?

I'm adding 1 stock to the portfolio every 3 or 4 months, when i see an opportunity (significant bottom) to LCA (low cost average) into a stock that i already hold (portfolio stock) i do it in preference to adding a totally new stock, as my portfolio grows (23 stocks now) it gets easier and easier to find opportunitys to LCA into portfolio stocks.

I figure that by the time i have about 35 portfolio stocks (2013/14) there will always be 1 portfolio stock at a low enough price to warrant a re-entry, thus no need to add any new stocks to the portfolio.

 

[ROE]

Funny how everyone using tls as an example of long term holder and ignore other greater stocks.

Let me put it in perspective .. Say you bought tls at the beginning and hold all the way to today

If you do that you are also likely to pick up cba csl and almost all other government sell off

Say your portfolio has 10 to 15 stocks, even if tls goes to zero you still make a truck load of money.. Here is something I pickup get feed into my iPad about finance and stuff I dont know the URL so I cut and paste for other benefit of an ordinary investor
who buy and hold...

"I start ed at 22 with investing/saving over 10%+ of my check, increased to 15%+ by age 23 1/2 and 20%~ by age 27. Those today who invest will mimic the investors who con tin ued through ("the death of equi ties") times of 70s and early 80s RICH!

I retired at 47 with $2.85M. When I start ed after col lege [I had] no debt, 2 old (11+ years old) cars and $1.5K saved by grad u a*tion with BS in 1982. [I made it through the] crash of '87, Gulf war mar ket drop, reces sion of 92-93 and high unem ploy ment (includ ing me!) , the dive of 2000, equi ties crash of late 2001, crash of 2008. Yep, still here, finan cial ly inde pen dent and worth every penny!

The tur tle always beats the rab bit. If you're not con fi dent PAY a finan cial plan ner the com mis sion or fees but, even the "poor est" (there are no "poor" with cell phones, cable TV, cars, etc., in Amer i ca today) can START with 5% or more (like ly 10%) and the mid dle class should have NO prob lem sav ing invest ing 15-20%. It's time to do what's right and what's REAL LY worth it for your future and some small sac ri fices -- like the cable TV, ther mo stat at 70'F+, cell phone extend ed plans, data plans, pre*mi um gas, etc.,...."

 

[breaker]

It would still be a lot off money in 35 stocks
Would you buy, say TOL,VBA,NUF to me seem to be at bottoms and just leave them,is that the plan ? do your main stocks pay dividends ?

 

[ROE]

It would still be a lot off money in 35 stocks
Would you buy, say TOL,VBA,NUF to me seem to be at bottoms and just leave them,is that the plan ? do your main stocks pay dividends ?

I don't hold more than 15-20 stocks doesn't matter how much money I have

if I have 10m, 10m will still be allocated to 15-20 stocks.

I usually prefer stock that pay dividend whether it's 3%, 5% or 8%

in my opinion paying dividend is a good way for business not do do stupid things
with excess cash...That why I like FLT and ARP ... and recently CCP...

They are expanding slowly but when they have excess cash they pay a special dividend to their shareholders as well as regularly dividend....

CCP got so much cash now it doubling and tripling dividend payout and suspend DRP ..they still growing just not using that excess cash and make stupid purchase...

I prefer companies give me my excess cash because rather than them wasted on the bankers fee and acquisition spree I can turn that excess a return of 15% a year by allocating that capital to other business on my purchase list.

also with dividend it easy for me to spot how the companies doing with money and cash flow

Companies that don't fit my ideology I say no thank you and look for those that do...

VBA or QAN or XXX airline I never look at them and I never put a cent into them
because I don't like their business model as a long term investment...

NUF a stupid stock that I make an 10% loss, I realise the mistake and I got out and will never be back...doesn't mean it wont go up....Just me wont invest in it no more

TOL never really look at it either just glancing over the business some years ago doesn't interest me either....

I only like business where I have confident I can hold for a long time without too much worries about wordly events and one day I can live off its pay cheques come twice a year....

 

[So_Cynical]

It would still be a lot off money in 35 stocks
Would you buy, say TOL,VBA,NUF to me seem to be at bottoms and just leave them,is that the plan ? do your main stocks pay dividends ?

• TOL is a stock i like, tried to buy it a couple of times in early/mid 09 and didn't get filled.i don't hold.
• VBA i don't like airlines...i don't hold.
• NUF ive watched for a long time, but cant see a competitive advantage for NUF...i don't hold.

Of the 23 stocks i hold 16 pay dividends and 5 pay distributions, 1 has no potential to ever pay a dividend and the other 1 should be announcing a return to dividends next week.

I'm building a portfolio to provide me with a dividend stream that will hopefully be sufficient to allow me to move to a low cost country with a suitable foreign earnings tax regime...moving in 6 to 8 years time.

 

[Tyler Durden]

I'm building a portfolio to provide me with a dividend stream that will hopefully be sufficient to allow me to move to a low cost country with a suitable foreign earnings tax regime...moving in 6 to 8 years time.

I have a similar goal in that I want a steady dividend stream, but I find it hard as a lot of companies pay dividends in the same month. As I want to receive dividends every month, it's almost impossible to find a blue chip company that pays in certain months like June.

 

[So_Cynical]

I have a similar goal in that I want a steady dividend stream, but I find it hard as a lot of companies pay dividends in the same month. As I want to receive dividends every month, it's almost impossible to find a blue chip company that pays in certain months like June.

Agree...but what can we do about it :dunno: alot of the REITs and infrastructure stocks pay in June/July and Dec/Jan but they don't have any franking credits....im finding that with the 23 stocks i have now there is a fair spread of actually payment dates....however June is a lean month.

Not exactly blue chip for some :dunno: but HVN have a pay date of May and CSR in early July.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Agree...but what can we do about it :dunno: alot of the REITs and infrastructure stocks pay in June/July and Dec/Jan but they don't have any franking credits....im finding that with the 23 stocks i have now there is a fair spread of actually payment dates....however June is a lean month.

Not exactly blue chip for some :dunno: but HVN have a pay date of May and CSR in early July.

Thanks - just wondering, why do you have a roulette wheel as part of your avatar?

 

[BrightGreenGlow]

I'm a strong believer that if you have made a gain of over 20grand never sell before the year is up. I hate to give the government 40 odd % of that I gained from smart investing.