What utility do you get out of tax paid?

prawn_86 · 5 July 2012

So it's that time of year when a lot of us get a shock and realise how much tax we have actually paid over the last year

Do you feel that you get use out of the amount of tax you pay?

Personally i dont think i get anywhere near my 'money's worth'. As far as i understand it my tax goes direct to the Commonwealth, not state governments, and as i rent pretty much the only thing i pay to the state is my car registration (which is definitely value for money in the roads department).

As to the commonwealth government i don't get much out of them. I have private health, dont beleive we should be deploying troops overseas, pay my own power and utilities bills, dont claim any form of government allowance, had to pay $500 just because a state government was too lazy to take out insurance etc.

I understand higher income earners need to givbe back some to support welfare etc, but where does the rest of my money go? Aside from bloated beauracracy and junkets?

Do you feel you get value out of your tax paid?

Julia · 5 July 2012

prawn_86 said:
Do you feel you get value out of your tax paid?

No. Especially at present.
Just one example a few days ago was a report on the non-readiness of the E-Health scheme where everyone is supposed to be able to log in to their records, doctors can share results, etc. None of it is working.
But amongst all the planning and billions in costs, there have been lavish seafood dinners and junkets away.

pixel · 5 July 2012

Does "Government" qualify as a utility?
If it does, then we get lots:

a PM that gets paid more than the US President (note, I'm NOT saying "earns more")
an overkill of red tape
a massive over-employment of lobbyists and self-obsessed "consultants" in control
a handful of Luddites dictating policies based on misguided ideologies

... add your own

Miss Hale · 5 July 2012

A bit via medicare, happy to contribute to defense, um.....

prawn_86 · 5 July 2012

Miss Hale said:
A bit via medicare, happy to contribute to defense, um.....

Another question then (for everyone):

What amount of tax do you feel is fair (for you)?

Subjective question i know, but i would be happy to pay around 20k pa at my current income and feel that i am getting my moneys worth, and contributing towards the company

Smurf1976 · 5 July 2012

I'm not opposed to paying reasonable taxes to fund government services including welfare for those who genuinely need assistance.

I am however totally opposed to paying excessive rates for services actually delivered. Government routinely seems to spend 3 times the amount necessary in order to provide the service, the rest disappearing into bureaucrats' pay and bumper profits for contractors. That's the bit I take issue with in a big way.

Roads are a classic example. Ever since they put that work out to contractors, the quality has gone down the drain. Where roads used to last for decades, now they fall apart far too quickly. There's one near me that the council had some contractor redoing about 3 year ago. It has already been fixed again a couple of months ago after it pretty much fell apart.

Why isn't the original contractor forced to re-do the work at zero cost to ratepayers? Take them to court and force them - why not? And why aren't the rates charged by such contractors referenced to the cost of doing the work "in house" to ensure we're getting value for money?

That sort of waste, not paying welfare to the disabled etc, is what I'd like to see cut out. Just stop spending my money without regard to value.

Do I get value from government? Based on what it actually costs them to provide services, I'm getting at least something back. But based on what it should cost to provide those services I'm being ripped off in a big way.

pixel · 5 July 2012

Smurf1976 said:
I'm not opposed to paying reasonable taxes to fund government services including welfare for those who genuinely need assistance.

+1

add good schooling for our kids, trade training and tertiary education

I am however totally opposed to paying excessive rates for services actually delivered. Government routinely seems to spend 3 times the amount necessary in order to provide the service, the rest disappearing into bureaucrats' pay and bumper profits for contractors. That's the bit I take issue with in a big way.Do I get value from government? Based on what it actually costs them to provide services, I'm getting at least something back. But based on what it should cost to provide those services I'm being ripped off in a big way.

+3

Julia · 5 July 2012

Smurf1976 said:
I'm not opposed to paying reasonable taxes to fund government services including welfare for those who genuinely need assistance.

+2.

Do I get value from government? Based on what it actually costs them to provide services, I'm getting at least something back. But based on what it should cost to provide those services I'm being ripped off in a big way.

+2 again.

A local council example today: a new toilet block is being erected adjacent to a single table picnic site in a park. About 200 metres away there are two toilet blocks. Why on earth can not the few people using the lone picnic table walk that far? Just absolute waste of money. No wonder the rates rise exponentially.

waza1960 · 5 July 2012

Roads are a classic example. Ever since they put that work out to contractors, the quality has gone down the drain. Where roads used to last for decades, now they fall apart far too quickly. There's one near me that the council had some contractor redoing about 3 year ago. It has already been fixed again a couple of months ago after it pretty much fell apart.

Why isn't the original contractor forced to re-do the work at zero cost to ratepayers? Take them to court and force them - why not? And why aren't the rates charged by such contractors referenced to the cost of doing the work "in house" to ensure we're getting value for money?

That sort of waste, not paying welfare to the disabled etc, is what I'd like to see cut out. Just stop spending my money without regard to value.

Agree with the rest of your post but the content above is at best ill-informed or worse IMO.
I was an earthmoving/roadbuilding contractor for 20yrs.
The real problem with council roads whether the Council or a Private Contractor builds them is the Engineering Staff that administer and supervise the works .Usually within most councils engineering departments are split into divisions one which looks after subdivisions and the other looks after their own work. There is a massive difference between the quality of work . In a subdivision all work has to be tested and signed off in stages before the next stage continues .With councils own work they are compromised IMO as they are supervising and signing off on their own work.
Most contractors don't make "massive" profits and are struggling against red and green tape and the inefficient government bureaucracy with which they have to work.
And comparing having the contractors do the work against doing it in house that is really funny I can assure you that
unless there is some sort of corruption happening councils are many times more expensive doing similar work they are after all just another inefficient government Bureaucracy.

Tyler Durden · 5 July 2012

I am happy to pay for the following:
- Medicare
- police services (in the sense that they are there to protect me if I need)
- ambulances, hospitals etc

However, what really annoys me about the use of our taxes is the following:
- politicians giving themselves pay rises (while cutting jobs of other public servants)
- Centrelink policy...if you defraud them, you can pay them back out of further money that they give you. I say, once a person is convicted of defrauding Centrelink, they should no longer be entitled to any further money.

johenmo · 6 July 2012

Smurf1976 said:
Do I get value from government? Based on what it actually costs them to provide services, I'm getting at least something back. But based on what it should cost to provide those services I'm being ripped off in a big way.

+3.

Don't know about now but 20 years ago in WA Govt work was considered a chance to add more above what they would charge the public.

My #1 beef for waste is the privileges post Govt - like free flights for ex-MPs and family. It was reported Ian Sinclair has had 55 flight so far this year - he finished up in 1998, 14 years ago.

All in all, I prob get my money's worth via medicare atm! But the roads don't seem to last as long - is this because of increased traffic e.g. more trucks and less rail, bigger truck loads?

white_goodman · 6 July 2012

Tyler Durden said:
- Centrelink policy...if you defraud them, you can pay them back out of further money that they give you. I say, once a person is convicted of defrauding Centrelink, they should no longer be entitled to any further money.

what about the 'right' to welfare...

nothing makes my eyes glaze over then the moral messiahs of society speak of 'Rights'

white_goodman · 6 July 2012

id argue no-one gets utility out of paying tax, however may I just say there is no means by which the rich can be taxed without ultimately taxing the poor far more heavily. The whole MPC/MPS Keynesian dogma doesnt really work in the real world, just an excuse for wealth distribution (as if there is a fixed number of wealth and we just need our benevolent overlords in Canberra to decide how best to divvy it up). It baffles me that politicians/people think by taxing labour and capital we will create the incentive for more labour and capital, its logically absurd, we could easily cover our over inflated budget with land taxation, pigs will fly when I see that happen.

Society is a collection of children, thats the only reasoning I can come up with as to why we have this Fabian nightmare before us.

pixel · 6 July 2012

Listen to this speech:
http://sorisomail.com/email/238743/o-politico-que-representa-realmente-a-populacao.html

Here is one MP who's got it and says so - sadly only to an almost empty European Parliament.

What utility do you get out of tax paid?

prawn_86

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