What is racism?

[wayneL]

Going off at a tangent from the "Paki" thread.

What is racism?

Is racism any sort of mention or thought of differences in race/culture as seems to be in the PC brigade? (actually race is an obsolete concept, it does not exist)

Or is racism only a negative manifestation of the above.

For instance, consider these two statements:

1/ I find black women extremely attractive

2/ I think all black women are ugly

Is one or both statements racist?

For instance when I meet people for business or socially of different "races", I always think "Here is a middle eastern person", or "here is a black person"; whereas no such thought enters my head when I meet a white person... unless they have an accent, then the thought is "here is a German" or whatever.

Though I "notice" the difference, I make sure that it doesn't affect my judgement of them.

In one sense this is definitely racist, but on the other hand I really enjoy these people's company if they are nice people, and enjoy the differences in culture etc. It's positive.

In this sense I think everybody is racist (even though race doesn't exist) and I could name all sorts of scenarios like this to prove it.

Quite different to automatic discrimination/disadvantage due to how someone looks, ie negative racism, which of course is detestable.

It is also different to disliking certain cultures because of their customary practices eg Islam. Not liking Muslims, though often labeled as racism, is nothing to do with race at all. (in itself an irrational concept given the broad spectrum of Islamic ideology. Most Muslims I have met are perfectly charming and peaceful people)

Thoughts?

 

[Stormin_Norman]

racism is an attitude. not a word. banning words is stupid. banning attitudes is impossible.

ask my wog and paki mates.

 

[cuttlefish]

Re: What is racism?

fear

 

[Old Mate]

Racism is out of control in my opinion. In the sense that just about any reference to any person's background is immediately labeled as racist. Oh but only if you're white apparently. Different rules for difference races... Was that observation racist?

 

[nunthewiser]

Racism is out of control in my opinion. In the sense that just about any reference to any person's background is immediately labeled as racist. Oh but only if you're white apparently. Different rules for difference races... Was that observation racist?

is white

also a curry munching burmese desendant bogan


i am so confused

I should also add that i am the white sheep of the family whereas apart from my mother my whole entire family , uncles, cousins , auntys are black/brown ....

now i am totally confused as am i allowed to call my family black or is there a more non racially upsetting accepted word ?

 

[wayneL]

is white

also a curry munching burmese desendant bogan


i am so confused

Me too. Apparently we're all just bog standard bogun homo sapiens.

http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/debunking-biological-theories-of-race

Curry.... Yum

 

[cuttlefish]

Not liking Muslims, though often labeled as racism, is nothing to do with race at all.

Bullsh*t.

 

[GumbyLearner]

is white

also a curry munching burmese desendant bogan


i am so confused

I should also add that i am the white sheep of the family whereas apart from my mother my whole entire family , uncles, cousins , auntys are black/brown ....

now i am totally confused as am i allowed to call my family black or is there a more non racially upsetting accepted word ?

Interesting points you raise there nunthwiser.

Has anyone ever thought about the use of black as an adjective?

Black Plague
Black Market
Black List

I think racism is just treating someone different than others solely because of their race. But it could apply to lots of other things as well religous beliefs, age, gender etc...

I think there must be good and bad people in every race. Its my choice to befriend people regardless of there race. But racists may fear (just like cuttlefish mentioned earlier) getting to know others either due to a persons appearance or religous belief. Rather than discerning for themselves through communication or logic to determine the character of a person, they just close there mind and classify everyone according to their own general views of a particular race. Basically its sort of like contortionist yoga, where a person must place their head up their own backside. Because thats the enlightened world that many racists want people to live in.


Not that this my answer as to what racism is but I would call it close-mindedness.

On the other hand, I can appreciate where WayneL is coming from. The PC language-freak thought police will try anything to deconstruct a person or the English language for that matter. Its got to the stage where people are too scared to have a laugh or enjoy a joke about the beautiful differences we all have in this world. Certainly of lot of this crap is peddled by unemployable academic radicals who have never had to work for a living and on many occassions elitist cry-babies who spent their entire academic life with their head buried in a book by Foucault or Derrida.

Just my opinion, no offence intended!

 

[wayneL]

Bullsh*t.

Care to expand on this thought?

Islam encompasses quite a few different peoples:

Arabs
Persians
Slavs
Indons
Chinese
Indians/Pakistanis
Blacks
even some Anglos

... as does Christianity et al

 

[disarray]

its a different dynamic between the individual and the group. a single person is a totally different beast to one in a wider social grouping.

the solo aussie in the street behaves differently at the pub with his mates. the muslim at work behaves differently at the mosque at friday prayers.

the important thing is to judge the individual on his / her own merits the first time you meet them. then you can decide whether you like or dislike them.

its no problem to label / criticise groups of people though because the dynamic is different. but people would rather just lump everything in together because its easier that way and requires less thought. imo.

 

[cuttlefish]

Care to expand on this thought?

You're an intelligent person Wayne .... read what you wrote.

Not liking Muslims, though often labeled as racism, is nothing to do with race at all.

Hi how are you .. my names Wayne... nice to meet you.

Hi ... I'm Aamil.

Oh ... thats an interesting name ... are you Muslim by any chance?

Why yes! I am!

Ok well f*ck off then because I HATE you.... but I'm not racist or anything ...

 

[wayneL]

You're an intelligent person Wayne .... read what you wrote.





Hi how are you .. my names Wayne... nice to meet you.

Hi ... I'm Aamil.

Oh ... thats an interesting name ... are you Muslim by any chance?

Why yes! I am!

Ok well f*ck off then because I HATE you.... but I'm not racist or anything ...

You're missing one important point... Islam is not a race, it's a religion.

Look at the word RACE-ism.

I didn't say it wasn't discrimination, it is. But it is not racism.

 

[cuttlefish]

You're missing one important point... Islam is not a race, it's a religion.

Look at the word RACE-ism.

wahahah you make me laugh.

What was that about the thought police and mincing words? ...


So whats it called when someone announces their religion and you decide that you hate them from that point on based on their religion ... I've never been taught the word for that one - inform me.

 

[nunthewiser]

wahahah you make me laugh.

What was that about the thought police and mincing words? ...


So whats it called when someone announces their religion and you decide that you hate them from that point on based on their religion ... I've never been taught the word for that one - inform me.

bigot?

big⋅ot   /ˈbɪgət/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [big-uht] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

 

[So_Cynical]

You're an intelligent person Wayne .... read what you wrote.


Hi how are you .. my names Wayne... nice to meet you.

Hi ... I'm Aamil.

Oh ... thats an interesting name ... are you Muslim by any chance?

Why yes! I am!

Ok well f*ck off then because I HATE you.... but I'm not racist or anything ...

Cant u just be nice to him, smile, shake hands and carry on with non
offensive conversation...while all the time thinking.

I really don't like Muslims....but i do like your Kebabs and Chicken Borek,
just wish u didn't force women to wear black tents etc.

 

[wayneL]

wahahah you make me laugh.

What was that about the thought police and mincing words? ...


So whats it called when someone announces their religion and you decide that you hate them from that point on based on their religion ... I've never been taught the word for that one - inform me.

Jesus cuttlefish,

You're normally fairly sensible. WTF?

I don't know what you call it. It is discrimination for sure.

But let's look at the dictionary definition

rac⋅ism
   /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

It doesn't say anything about religion or culture, ergo, it is not racism.

Bigotry, religionism, creedism.... I don't know.

 

[wayneL]

A bit of Googling later, I believe the correct term is Religious Discrimination.

 

[cuttlefish]

Jesus cuttlefish,

You're normally fairly sensible. WTF?

I don't know what you call it. It is discrimination for sure.

.

Then *why* use it to justify a 'political correctness is stupid' debate?

It is also different to disliking certain cultures because of their customary practices eg Islam. Not liking Muslims, though often labeled as racism, is nothing to do with race at all. (in itself an irrational concept given the broad spectrum of Islamic ideology. Most Muslims I have met are perfectly charming and peaceful people)

Wayne - what exactly then is your point in the above paragraph?

So not liking people because they are islamic is ok ... but its cool to be friends with them as well?

Or are you genuinely trying to explore the microcosm of the word racism as opposed to political correctness and bigotry in general ... and if so ... to what purpose?

For what its worth, I am in agreement about a lot of aspects of the political correctness debate - I think people need the freedom to express themselves and explore their differences without fear of being labelled racist because of a poor choice of words - and I also think that if people choose (and are privelidge enough to) to live within a certain government/legal system then they should accept it and not ask to be treated differently because of race or religion.

 

[slim pickins]

wayne you said there is no such thing as race.... so why are you concerned about racism. by that logic racism doesnt exist.

hating muslims or christians is bigotry. some think it is acceptable to do this because islam or christianity is a choice as oppposed to race which you are born with.

this is certainly one argument.

however with imporoving medical procedures it is no longer necessary to be black or aisan because with enough surgery you can significantly alter your outward racial characteristics. look at michael jackson.

i personally would not care if i was discriminated against by poeple of other races and religions. if they dont like me, fine, not interested in them and i dont need their religion

 

[disarray]

So not liking people because they are islamic is ok ... but its cool to be friends with them as well?

you can dislike a social construct without automatically disliking the individual who follows it.

hating muslims or christians is bigotry

but hating islam or christianity isn't. there needs to be a seperation of the individual from the social grouping, but that doesn't happen, people just lump everything in together then get hyper sensitive about anything that touches any part of the subject.