What formed your attitude toward money?

[Julia]

At 18 my father said "You have no respect for money"---He is right.
At 21 My new wife and I did a budget and had $5 left for us. Isaid
I dont ever want to be in a position where I have to worry about money.

Started working for myself.

28 First shot at Bankruptcy just fell short!
Changed business direction lost all but business property---including losing the wife.
35 second shot at B/Ruptcy.

40 Get it right business turns over $1 mill
Have some spare.
Start buying houses and keep going for 10 yrs.
Accumulate quite a few.
Develop 3 duplex developements
Get trading right after 10 yrs.

Business cracks the 4 mill T/O.
Sell and freehold property and positive gear all.

Hit 55 and can retire.

Still working cause I can and love it.
Play golf/Ride miles and travel heaps whenever I want.
Lifes very good.
Business structured to operate without me.

Still have no respect for money.
Help many out who have no idea I do.
That is the most rewarding of all (Particularly hearing the stories and how it helps).

Tech, it was you I was thinking about when I included the comment that some never want to fully retire, so much do they enjoy what they do.

I'd challenge, though, your comment that you 'have no respect for money'.
Don't you perhaps rather mean that for you money is not important of itself, but rather because of what can allow you to do, i.e. live in a comfortable home, travel at will, and perhaps most important of all, help other people, something which clearly gives you much pleasure.

I think my money-awareness really did start from a young age. My older generation relatives migrated to Australia in the early 1900's from Italy to what is now a largely Italian-based community. My grandparents (and many others in the community) worked hard to establish a fruit orchard which has been kept in the family and is now operated by my dad. From the age of around 7 or 8 onwards i would help pick and pack fruit, especially during the busy season while i was on school holidays. It wasn't a lot of money, but dad would always pay me in proportion to the number of hours i worked. I strongly believe that this helped me to appreciate the value of hard work from a young age.

I had never studied any economics or finance until university, so high school did not really play much of a direct role in my financial habits. The classes i did at school were some of the "harder" ones i.e. physics, chemistry, calculus etc. and i am generally quite competitive, so there was a lot of friendly competition between me and one other student to be the top in the classes. I think this same "driven" attitude has transferred itself to my bank account, where i challenge myself to do better than the average person.

If i was to give a specific reason as to why i try to be so careful with my money and make it grow as much as i can, I'd say for the financial security. I am not necessarily expecting to become so rich that i can buy whatever i want, but what i do hope for myself is that i can live comfortably without having to stress about money all the time, and if there is something that I'd like (within reason) i can afford to buy it.

danago, another great story about an immigrant family.

It wasn't a lot of money, but dad would always pay me in proportion to the number of hours i worked. I strongly believe that this helped me to appreciate the value of hard work from a young age

I strongly agree here.

Perhaps the responses so far on this thread are a reflection of the type of membership a stock forum attracts. But even so, I'm just so encouraged by reading these stories of so many of you who clearly appreciate the usefulness of money without making it your god. Just so makes up for all the profligate spending and lack of any sort of financial understanding which I was beginning to think was the norm.

 

[Bill M]

Investing was never discussed at our home, it was always seen in a negative light. "So and so invested their money and blew it all" - those sort of stories that you hear all the time. They were brought up to 'put everything under the mattress' - not even trusting banks (although we did have money in our bank accounts, most was actually sitting around in cash). In post war communist Poland, money 'disappeared' sometimes so thats how they were raised and I guess living here they didn't know any better.

One of my best mates is a Polish Immigrant also, I have great respect for him. He came here on his own with a few American dollars. Now he has his own home, a big share portfolio and is going to retire soon. I really enjoyed his hardship stories from Poland too. It just goes to show that anyone can make it here in OZ, cheers and thanks for sharing.

 

[Julia]

I'm still hoping for a response from Wysiwyg whose two contrasting posts I quoted when I started this thread, i.e. from nothing to multiple millions in just ten years.
Wysiwyg???

 

[Sean K]

Money and it's trappings are the source of incredible hardship.

Human nature is to blame.

But this basic instinct has allowed us to survive and climb to become kings of the jungle.

So, my attitude is formed by my genes and society in my present space and time.

 

[Market Depth]

I started work at age 14, as a Carpenter. I worked my guts out 6 days a week. When I discovered I could work for one company, and save some money to 'Buy' other companies, that would work for me as well. It changed my whole outlook towards money and money management, and my future employment. Suddenly I didn't have to accept just 'Any Old Job' just to make ends meet. I could 'Cherry Pick' the jobs I wanted to do at the price I wanted to be payed. I still work as a 'Traddie' from time to time, because I enjoy it. It's what got me started. And I have great respect for that.

 

[KurwaJegoMac]

Thanks for the feedback everyone

I'm still hoping for a response from Wysiwyg whose two contrasting posts I quoted when I started this thread, i.e. from nothing to multiple millions in just ten years.
Wysiwyg???

I PM'd Wysiwyg with regards to this thread as perhaps he may not have seen it. Hopefully he's happy to share his story, i'd definitely love to hear it because it's quite an impressive achievement!

 

[Calliope]

My Scottish Presbyterian ancestry. I think making and retaining your money is like the art of wing-walking;

"Never let go of something until you have got hold of something else".

 

[Smurf1976]

My family being in very difficult financial circumstances during my high school years taught me a lot when it comes to money. A life changing experience certainly.

Every now and then, I'll deliberately walk home from work in the rain (a distance of 9km) with no coat or something like that. It's just a little reminder should I ever forget that money is valuable. Always a good opportunity for some thinking doing something like that.

But I'm still perplexed as to why anyone would actually want a new car every year, always have a new fridge and so on. It's just a fridge - a 5 year old one is just as good as a new one and it's the same with cars etc too. So I'm quite happy to keep my 11 year old car, though I do like knowing that I have the $ available to fix it should it break down and that I could pay cash for a new one if I really wanted to.

 

[Smurf1976]

"Never let go of something until you have got hold of something else".

Now that's a comment that every politician in the country needs to be forced to comprehend...

 

[Julia]

But I'm still perplexed as to why anyone would actually want a new car every year, always have a new fridge and so on. It's just a fridge - a 5 year old one is just as good as a new one and it's the same with cars etc too. So I'm quite happy to keep my 11 year old car, though I do like knowing that I have the $ available to fix it should it break down and that I could pay cash for a new one if I really wanted to.

So having enough money represents a sense of security, doesn't it. You're not going to experience the anxiety that people without cash reserves will feel if the fridge dies.

I'm with you on feeling no compulsion to acquire new things when the existing model is fine.

 

[Tysonboss1]

Security, But mainly freedom.

 

[tech/a]

Tech, it was you I was thinking about when I included the comment that some never want to fully retire, so much do they enjoy what they do.

I guess if you become very good at something and people search you out its not hard to have continued Passion. Being in the position of not having to go to work if I Dont wish too makes it easier to go---if you understand what I mean.

I'd challenge, though, your comment that you 'have no respect for money'.
Don't you perhaps rather mean that for you money is not important of itself, but rather because of what can allow you to do, i.e. live in a comfortable home, travel at will, and perhaps most important of all, help other people, something which clearly gives you much pleasure.

Ive often contemplated what Dad meant and go back in thought to the many times he has repeated it to me. Now 87 (Dad) I haven't heard him use it since Ive been re married (11 yrs ago).
Dad was in the second WW and the great depression---he used to come home every night and mix up a batch of Cement sand and potash and pour into steel molds bricks for his house. He and his dad built his home and the one I grew up in---amazing.

Every Penny in those days counted.
Dad always saw/sees my life style as excessive and wasteful---and it was---to a degree still is--- in his eyes.
I remember vividly his head shaking when he found out I paid for a season pass for a pensioner friend of mine who couldn't afford to go to the footy.
I also remember a very un happy father when I paid for 4 friends to fly to Melbourne and join us at a concert many years ago.---They couldn't afford it either.

He saw that as big noting.

Strangely he was less critical of his new John Deere ride on tractor mower which I had delivered a year ago when Mum told me he couldn't afford to fix the old slasher!
Took him a couple of weeks to work out where it came from!!

Its fun--life is good.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Regarding money, my early learning was quite a mixed bag of positives and negatives.

Changing beliefs and attitudes can be extremely difficult, but this represents the core of all I do nowadays, regarding trading. Occasionally I enjoy tweaking some systems but it's not a focus like it used to be.

If your attitude is right, it shouldn't matter too much which system or method you use. A good example of this is what happened with the Turtles. They were all given the rules and shown the results and yet only a few of them made money. The explanation for this was that those who did poorly lacked discipline, but I don't believe this for a second.

If you take 100 people off the street and let me interview them for 5 minutes, I bet I could tell you which of them will be able to make money trading, and it would have nothing to do with their application, intelligence, programming expertise, prior trading experience or any of that stuff.

 

[KurwaJegoMac]

If you take 100 people off the street and let me interview them for 5 minutes, I bet I could tell you which of them will be able to make money trading, and it would have nothing to do with their application, intelligence, programming expertise, prior trading experience or any of that stuff.

In your view, how would you be able to determine which people would be able to make money trading?

 

[tech/a]

In your view, how would you be able to determine which people would be able to make money trading?

Ability to handle risk and apply it to opportunity.

 

[Julia]

I guess if you become very good at something and people search you out its not hard to have continued Passion. Being in the position of not having to go to work if I Dont wish too makes it easier to go---if you understand what I mean.

I do indeed.

Ive often contemplated what Dad meant and go back in thought to the many times he has repeated it to me. Now 87 (Dad) I haven't heard him use it since Ive been re married (11 yrs ago).
Dad was in the second WW and the great depression---he used to come home every night and mix up a batch of Cement sand and potash and pour into steel molds bricks for his house. He and his dad built his home and the one I grew up in---amazing.

Every Penny in those days counted.
Dad always saw/sees my life style as excessive and wasteful---and it was---to a degree still is--- in his eyes.
I remember vividly his head shaking when he found out I paid for a season pass for a pensioner friend of mine who couldn't afford to go to the footy.
I also remember a very un happy father when I paid for 4 friends to fly to Melbourne and join us at a concert many years ago.---They couldn't afford it either.

He saw that as big noting.

Strangely he was less critical of his new John Deere ride on tractor mower which I had delivered a year ago when Mum told me he couldn't afford to fix the old slasher!
Took him a couple of weeks to work out where it came from!!

Its fun--life is good.

So having money gives you pleasure in being able to give. Do you ever consider that it might also confer a sense of power and the capacity to inspire gratitude amongst the people to whom you're giving?

I'm not at all suggesting you're being patronising here, Tech. From all I've known about you over now many years, that's not your motive at all, rather a genuine desire to help.
But sometimes when I've helped someone out a little, I've wondered if I could be compromising their sense of independence.

Regarding money, my early learning was quite a mixed bag of positives and negatives.

If your attitude is right, it shouldn't matter too much which system or method you use. A good example of this is what happened with the Turtles. They were all given the rules and shown the results and yet only a few of them made money. The explanation for this was that those who did poorly lacked discipline, but I don't believe this for a second.

I'm a bit surprised to read this, GB. I'd have thought self discipline was pretty high on the list of characteristics required for financial independence.
Why do you so disbelieve this?

If you take 100 people off the street and let me interview them for 5 minutes, I bet I could tell you which of them will be able to make money trading, and it would have nothing to do with their application, intelligence, programming expertise, prior trading experience or any of that stuff.

In your view, how would you be able to determine which people would be able to make money trading?

I echo Kurwa's question: what questions would you ask and what answers would you receive to determine their capacity to make money?

 

[Smurf1976]

So having enough money represents a sense of security, doesn't it. You're not going to experience the anxiety that people without cash reserves will feel if the fridge dies.

I'm with you on feeling no compulsion to acquire new things when the existing model is fine.

Exactly. It's about security first and foremost. I don't need or even want to be eating at top restaurants on a regular basis, driving a Porsche and living in a mansion.

But I do want certainty that I will have something to eat, adequate transport for my actual needs, and a roof over my head. Having faced the reality of those things not being certain in the past, it does focus your priorities that is for sure.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I echo Kurwa's question: what questions would you ask and what answers would you receive to determine their capacity to make money?

Maybe I'd ask them to lend me $3 for a coffee and see how they reacted. Haha! I'd work out some questions that gave me insight into their attitudes about money. That's all I'm saying. I'd do it because I believe it's important. I'd be looking for an attitude similar to tech/a, but without the bankruptcies. Most people who bankrupt would retain that tendency to do it again, IMO. Others would learn from it and go forward in leaps and bounds.

 

[Sean K]

I still think, and probably always will, that money is just a means to an end.

Define the end.

It will define your attitude to it.

For me, it's financial independence and never having to 'work' again. Then I can totally devote my time to family, friends and society in need. I suppose it's a best guess what that $$ value is depending on your vision. For me, the bar is pretty low.

 

[Whiskers]

What formed your attitude toward money?

I would say that not having any was probably the biggest influence.

Yeah, ditto here!

I remember when I left school and first started work I was pretty thrifty, well more like frugal I suppose, with my cash but generous with my time and tolerance for others.

I guess that is a trait that I learned from my parents... they were pretty frugal, making every dollar go ar far as it could, not afraid to use hand-me-downs or second hand goods or equipment. They always managed to get by quite comfortably on what they had with a little saved for a rainy day... well enough so as not to get the full pension anyway.

But I think our real character, in particular money management skills develop through the teens to when we leave home and manage on our own... and while I believe in the first instance it's shaped by what we observed from the people closest to us, there is also intrinsic personality traits (inner spirit or soul) that wrestle for control against our learned behaviour.

Also, the dynamics of new relationships can influence, often unconsciously at first, our money management practices.

For example, when I was single I saved and paid cash for my first car, motor bike and boat etc, even only borrowed a small amount for my second car, but paid it off ahead of time. Once married the (ex)wife handled the money mostly as I set about working up some income to build the house and have kids etc.

After some years the cash was getting harder to go around and the savings were dwindling and I just worked harder and longer.

Eventually I suspected something wasn't adding up and tried to organise a household budget... well didn't that cause some hostility. Whereas she didn't work for income (just to help out her parents) in the early years of the marriage, she had started work again and the catch-phrase became, this is my money and I don't have to explain to you what I do with it. You just have to earn more to support your family!

I learnt later this was a guilt trick that controlling (toxic) people play to try to keep you (me) subservient.

The lesson here is often it's the one closest to us that we trust most and unquestiongly believe and frame our decision making around. My ex developed a taste for luxury goods and the good life and started charging up credit all over town, even borrowing from the petty cash box where she worked to buy basic food for the kids at times and tell me so and succeeded for awhile in making me feel inferior and inadequate. I fell for the trick and borrowed against my business to offsett the extraudinary cash flow drain to personal drawings for awhile.

But eventually what I realised is that she was screwing with my head with guilt tricks to change my attitude to money management from one of living within your means with minimal borrowings and paying cash for a discount in most cases, to feeling guilty for not providing enough cash for her to live off... err not providing cash faster than she could spend it and resorting to borrowing to buy the peace in the household.

Well, after a while (after seperation) battling to find a few coins for a loaf of bread and tin of baked beans to get by to pay day, I eventually cleared my head and got back to the basics, my original attitude to money management and started to rebuild again.

The moral of my story is love, lust and luxury can quite easily corrupt your attitude to money management.

Things ain't always what they appear to be when you have personal or business relationships with other people when money is at stake.

Didn't someone famously say 'money is the root of all evil'. So by association if your life or relationships depend on money, there is most likely something evil there.