What constitutes a fair wage?

[Timmy]

What if the 16-year old saved up $5000, pestered her parents to open up a CFD account then earnt $800 in a week trading, would that be ok?

 

[nioka]

What if the 16-year old saved up $5000, pestered her parents to open up a CFD account then earnt $800 in a week trading, would that be ok?

I guess it would be OK as it would be a B&$#@@y miracle.

 

[njc.corp]

I think everyone's missing the point. It's very easy to sit back and say that $800 is too much, but the reality is someone was willing to pay that.

Now, if I can find a 16yo or a 46yo that brings enough into a business that I can justify paying them $800pw I'll happily pay it. Similarly if they generate much more value than that, I don't see why I wouldn't pay them more.

The reality is how old they are is irrelevant. It's just another form of discrimination. People should be paid based on the value they generate.

For example, I know of a 22yo who's not yet finished their degree with about 8 months experience in their line of work who is on track to earn over $350k in his first 12 months. Is he worth it? In truth, he's probably worth much more than that - he's generated over $2m in new business for his company and in a field they weren't previously involved in....

It comes back to the old adage - price is what you pay, but value is what you receive.

correct-

a fair wage-

like my old worker- he was prepared to go the distance-

i had over 25 workers come and go-all saying its to hard- he just said when u finish i will to

he was getting paid $1000.00 a week- take home- and not only could he do -3 things at once-he could be trusted-

he was also making me between 3-5 times what i was paying him a week-he was very freindly and the customers could related to him-

he never took a day off- in 5 years- 2 days off in 5 years for a fever-if i had to start at 5 am he would to etc etc

my point is if they want to work they will-u will know who does not-

i have noticed from other sectors-that the under paid workers rip off their bosse's 7/10 times-

so if u feel u have a good worker look after them-


Nick--

 

[Smurf1976]

* work ethic not too high - this has alienated others quite quickly
* excuses for almost everything that isn't delivered on time or at required quality
* usually refuses to take responsibility for individual actions

I could probably go on, but am feeling old and spiteful all of a sudden......

We have a few Gen Y's at work. Main difference I've noted is they want everything NOW and just don't get the concept of having a long term plan and actually sticking to it. Also they have an outright obsession with mobile phones.

Other than that though I'd have to say that their incredible ability to get things done, which is absolutely tops, more than makes up for any downsides.

Overall I'd rate them higher than the rest. Quite a bit higher in fact. Harder to deal with in many ways but the good points more than make up for that. Only thing is it did take me a while to get used to the phone thing. Text, text, text...

 

[trishan9390]

We have a few Gen Y's at work. Main difference I've noted is they want everything NOW and just don't get the concept of having a long term plan and actually sticking to it. Also they have an outright obsession with mobile phones.

Other than that though I'd have to say that their incredible ability to get things done, which is absolutely tops, more than makes up for any downsides.

Overall I'd rate them higher than the rest. Quite a bit higher in fact. Harder to deal with in many ways but the good points more than make up for that. Only thing is it did take me a while to get used to the phone thing. Text, text, text...

I'm a Gen Y and I agree. I reckon because of technological improvements as well as more accessible information sources students these days are asked to get through a greater amount of work in a shorter time period than in the past.

Before all you oldies start going on about walking to school barefoot, uphill both ways, I actually have had this discussion with older folk and they seem to agree with this point. How many of you notice this with your kids?

So anyway we come out of the academic system with the ability to utlise technology and information sources much more effectively than the generation before us which would explain our ability to get things done.

I am sure a lot of you think that's hogwash.

 

[nioka]

The ability, definitely, but from my experience, not the work ethic to stick out the "boring" part of any real job. Proved to me by the case I mention where a 16yr old refused a second week at $800 because the job was boring.

 

[vishalt]

Nioka,

Sounds like a classic Gen Y type thing. Want the money, but don't want to work too hard, and don't want to be inconvenienced while earning it.

Have one at work under me (along with a number of Gen X and baby boomers) and the difference in thinking is quite unbelievable. Could be a new thread all on its own. Don't know how many others out there see it too but it can be summarised as follows...(at risk of offending the youngsters out there)

* work ethic not too high - this has alienated others quite quickly
* excuses for almost everything that isn't delivered on time or at required quality
* usually refuses to take responsibility for individual actions

I could probably go on, but am feeling old and spiteful all of a sudden......

You are stereotyping all of Gen Y on the basis of one employee? Are you serious?

At my workplace we have Gen Y's and Gen X's who work in perfect harmony as the bosses keep us happy and reward us for the hard work and the extra time and effort we put in, and we put in an exceptional amount of work.

We take great pride in our work too, are very passionate and do the best to get the best articles for our publication (I'm a journalist).

If you just told me how you feel in a work place, and I was your employee, I would abandon you at the drop of a hat and at the most critical moment and laugh on the way out especially because of how arrogant you sound on your theory which is based on just ONE person.

DON'T class or streotype us, or me anyway, not all Gen Y's are the same, same with X's.

 

[nioka]

You are stereotyping all of Gen Y on the basis of one employee? Are you serious?

I have quoted one example, more to draw attention to the wage. I could quote many other examples, some from my extended family and some from the children and grand children of my neighbours. The attitude of " I'm educated so the world owes me instant recognition" prevails.

 

[vishalt]

I have quoted one example, more to draw attention to the wage. I could quote many other examples, some from my extended family and some from the children and grand children of my neighbours. The attitude of " I'm educated so the world owes me instant recognition" prevails.

Oh really? Clarify first, please.

 

[Plasmo]

I have quoted one example, more to draw attention to the wage. I could quote many other examples, some from my extended family and some from the children and grand children of my neighbours. The attitude of " I'm educated so the world owes me instant recognition" prevails.

That's an ignorant stereotype and says more about you than it does about the people you're complaining about. It's just as factual to say all people your age drive around in combi vans wearing rainbow coloured shirts, smoking weed and waiting for their welfare handout.

To get away from this stupidity and back to the original post, there's no such thing as a "fair wage" any more than there is a "fair price for corn chips shaped like Kevin Rudd", there is only the market price, and trying to apply a moral judgement to it is an excercise in futility.

 

[vishalt]

To get away from this stupidity and back to the original post, there's no such thing as a "fair wage" any more than there is a "fair price for corn chips shaped like Kevin Rudd", there is only the market price, and trying to apply a moral judgement to it is an excercise in futility.

I guess thats the truth, although I was interested in the earlier arguments about executives getting overpaid while the underlings or mid-tier people get paid substantially less.

A fair wage to me is something that would let me pay for the rent, food, laundry, groceries, utility bills while providing me with enough cash to have a good time with friends (dinner, bowling, movies, whatever) while not worry too much about money and enough for some savings.

Oops thats asking for too much already!

 

[nioka]

That's an ignorant stereotype and says more about you than it does about the people you're complaining about. It's just as factual to say all people your age drive around in combi vans wearing rainbow coloured shirts, smoking weed and waiting for their welfare handout.
.

Komki vans and rainbow shirts came a generation after me. Had they not been doing what they did and lived like they have they may not be finding it so hard to manage now. I'm sure, with the passage of time teaching them a better way, that most of them have come around to a different way of thinking.
Remember my age group has been young and foolish, the young have yet to walk in our footsteps.

 

[Plasmo]

I feel the same way about top executives, but can't logically justify it.

They command such high prices because they're scarce, and they're scarce because they have enough money to comfortably retire. It takes a lot of money to draw most people with millions in the bank, nice houses and boats and golf club memberships out into the world of business, but they're the people wanted for CEO level roles generally.

Remember my age group has been young and foolish

Until one day you matured, and learned to do the responsible thing by taking heavily leveraged speculative positions on the real estate bubble. How wise, I'm certain we can all learn a valuable lesson from this example of prudent financial planning.

 

[vishalt]

I feel the same way about top executives, but can't logically justify it.

They command such high prices because they're scarce, and they're scarce because they have enough money to comfortably retire. It takes a lot of money to draw most people with millions in the bank, nice houses and boats and golf club memberships out into the world of business, but they're the people wanted for CEO level roles generally.



Until one day you matured, and learned to do the responsible thing by taking heavily leveraged speculative positions on the real estate bubble. How wise, I'm certain we can all learn a valuable lesson from this example of prudent financial planning.

Funny thing is though all of my age group is stereotyped, mostly thanks to brainwashing by the wonderful news.com.au and the mX with their agendas on Gen Y's.

Its funny how my group of friends, atleast 9 out of the 10 of us all plan to be loyal to our workplaces for atleast 3 to 4 years, we don't have credit cards and blow massive amounts in shopping, we save immense amounts of money and seek long-term wealth management capabilities.

 

[Julia]

..... there's no such thing as a "fair wage" any more than there is a "fair price for corn chips shaped like Kevin Rudd", there is only the market price, and trying to apply a moral judgement to it is an excercise in futility.

This is really the whole point. Comes down to supply and demand as with any other commodity. We have almost full employment, so employees can command pretty much what they want.

 

[vishalt]

This is really the whole point. Comes down to supply and demand as with any other commodity. We have almost full employment, so employees can command pretty much what they want.

Yeah and please don't whine about this Gen X's, take Bill Gates' lesson and just live with the fact that "that's life" and none of us care that you were born in a recession while we are enjoying 16 years of economic expansion with unlimited opportunities.

But appreciate some of us won't change workplaces every 2 weeks to make our resumes look bad to prepare for a time when we do have an inevitable contraction.

 

[nioka]

Until one day you matured, and learned to do the responsible thing by taking heavily leveraged speculative positions on the real estate bubble. How wise, I'm certain we can all learn a valuable lesson from this example of prudent financial planning.

I believe that neither a borrower nor a lender be. I never take highly leveraged positions and a lot of those that have done have certainly come unstuck. When I did borrow I found that, on average, the only one to gain at the end of the deal was the bank. Then I learned to save and invest was the best way to go.
I'm not against high wages but anyone expecting any wage should be prepared to give value for that wage. They should think "Would I like to pay someone else that amount of pay to do that job for me?"

 

[Plasmo]

believe that neither a borrower nor a lender be. I never take highly leveraged positions

How can that be? All people of your age are greedy imbeciles drowning in mortgages and credit card debt.

 

[ithatheekret]

In fact, that's the perfect example - price and value are different things. As an employer you should employ where there is value.

In the example you sight, you highlight the inefficiencies of govt interference in markets. Soon there won't be any bulk billing doctors. If experienced accountants and lawyers charge $700-1000/hr, the idea that the government gives bulk billing doctors $100/hr is insane.

Nope $100 per hour with 15m per patient . plus an extra $8 or $9 if it be a rural location , is insane , I can do nothing but agree there .

Surgeons are leaving practises and going into public sustems , because patients can't afford the costs . Does the Govt. support them ?

There will always be bulk billing doctors , I beg to differ there , but they might be locum service doctors , doing rounds at surgeries etc.

Doctors are fighting back , but they are wearing the cost increases .

The solution could fall back to the medicare levy , which has been wasted in my opinion . Then again we are only seeing the excise on petrol start to be spent on roads . This little hold off has increased the medical costs and dragged the economy into a bottle neck . Great productivity drive they had there .

If the solution is within the realms of the medicare levy , we can expect a rise on that too , but that would depend on whether the waste continues or not .

Waste eats into both price and value . Let a private medical system do as it likes , and that waste adds to the effect 100 fold , as they send up costs and cut back pay out ratios , that's business .

Let it proceed unregulated and again that's insane . A Doctor is worth $440 an hour based on current CPI figures , they'd be lucky to get half that .

 

[Plasmo]

Subsidising medical care creates moral hazard by reducing the disincentive for healthy lifestyle.

Providing free healthcare creates disease.