VSA Chart Analysis Discussion Thread

[tech/a]

I could be wrong here as I don't have the Tradeguider software but I think perhaps the software does indeed do something to the volume - I think extreme volumes are 'evened out' a bit so that all the other volume bars on the chart remains readable. Otherwise, if extreme volumes were left as is, the rest of the volume bars become unreadable and too small.

No that's not the case
Data is from the data supplier.
To tamper with it is to distort VSA
The difference will be from the data supplier.

 

[adt100]

I thought that TG use relative volume readings as well. I'm sure I read something along those lines been a while since I used it though

 

[Wysiwyg]

What is the (mathematical) definition of these terms? Unless proven and consistent is open to what the user thinks and your definition might be different to mine.

Well Tradeguider software has inbuilt algorithms for bar indications but I don't think they are open to the public otherwise no one would buy the software. There are some obvious interpretations which are coded in Amibroker such as stopping volume which is a wide ranging down bar with high volume.

 

[tech/a]

I thought that TG use relative volume readings as well. I'm sure I read something along those lines been a while since I used it though

Yes your right but I believe only for FOREX.

You can read about it here

http://marketmanipulation-whatyouneedtoknow.blogspot.com/

 

[tminus]

Yes thats a huge difference.
My data is e signal.

Tech/A would it be possible to post a screenshot of the volume of the same period from eSignals software.
Thanks

 

[tech/a]

Tech/A would it be possible to post a screenshot of the volume of the same period from eSignals software.
Thanks

Not from me as I only feed it to Tradeguider I dont use Esignals software.
Wheres your data from?

 

[tminus]

Not from me as I only feed it to Tradeguider I dont use Esignals software.
Wheres your data from?

Mine is from IB, SNFE SPI Sept11.

I have Esignal for US stocks when I got the volume for the SPY index US SP500 all the volume bars were nearly the same it was pointless.
I don't have E-signal for Aus stocks as it was expensive.

 

[tech/a]

Hmm
I have IB but dont use their Data.
esignal index volume is useless as you say.
But as far as Im aware the Futures are Trades not volume of trades.
So there maybe 100 trades in a minute but we dont know if 500 contracts were turned over.
The Tradeguider argument is that the big players will do far more trades at an area of
of interest than any other.
Personally id like to see number of contracts traded.
If there are only 10 trades and 500 contracts that is more advantageous to know than just the number of trades down.

However
Even so I trade the SPI and FTSE and find VSA of great benifit even counting trades ------ go figure--

 

[tech/a]

Although I missed this trade today As was looking at a very flat Sept Contract and lost my Alzheimer pills!

This is how the "VSA" absolutely nailed this trade---whether the volume was spot or not this is how it looked.

 

[tech/a]

And again.



Got stopped on that one

 

[samanne1]

VSA is not a precise science, it's an art. You can't define 'extreme volume', that's what the computer code does, but no software is going to be able to take the rest of the chart action fully into context even though that's probably more important

OK. But if you then say....

some-condition = wide-range-bar and high-volume

then some-condition will evaluate differently depending on your the values of wide-range-bar and high-volume.

if you use atr to determine a wide-range-bar or some other function then you might get 2 different results. Hell, even ATR(2) may give different result to ATR(1), ATR(10) or ???? So unless "we" knew something more about the "insert software here", and given the defintions are somewhat subjective, you cannot say the Amibroker code is necessarily incorrect.

(If all you wanted to do was find wide ranging days in Amibroker compared with trade guider then you could get closer matches in terms of signals presented.)

Now if the Amibroker code presented a signal that trade guider does not, what is it about the bar (or prev. bars) that invalidate the signal. The corresponding code in Amibroker could then be adjusted accordingly.

Myself, coming from an mathematical background, always have issues with non-mathematical definitions, as it can lead to different interpretations depending on the reader.

PS. the only thing that I could think of re signals in one software not present in another would be

a) data padding
b) use of AI
c) data provider

 

[Mistagear]

Hmm
I have IB but dont use their Data.
esignal index volume is useless as you say.
But as far as Im aware the Futures are Trades not volume of trades.
So there maybe 100 trades in a minute but we dont know if 500 contracts were turned over.
The Tradeguider argument is that the big players will do far more trades at an area of
of interest than any other.
Personally id like to see number of contracts traded.
If there are only 10 trades and 500 contracts that is more advantageous to know than just the number of trades down

Two chart captures, both ES 9/12 today, showing 150 tick and 150 volume from 8am today. Obviously the difference in the number of bars due to tick order size.

Cheers,

 

[Mistagear]

AQA is an interesting chart for me from a VSA viewpoint,

Have been watching for a possible long entry since the drop and volume spike in early August. Since then there has been considerable volumes being transacted and no further declines in the downtrend which has dominated since April.
From the first circle (from left) high volume on the low resulted in a rally back towards the lower side of the window and a fail again.

The sell-off was at the obvious point but the feature which attracted me was the relative lack of volume after that fail as price dropped and made a higher low. This suggested lack of supply had lifted from the prior $5 level to $5.50.

Next feature is the next high late August, near the top of the gap, I see this as a lack of demand power at this stage. The volume not heavy so there was not huge supply yet price failed.. low demand.

Price dropped to the 3rd circle 6/9/11, this shows volume increasing as price fell towards the eventual pivot. This shows demand very strong at the lower levels despite supply increasing during a negative market phase. I take this as increasing demand and price once again made a higher low.

During this last fortnight, price rose from the last pivot on reasonably light volume and again stalled through lack of demand at the higher level. Market sentiment and lack of demand at the higher level brought out fresh supply. Note how again demand arrived to once again support price when supply pushed down in numbers.

That brings us to this week, Monday and Wednesday both supply similar range, Wednesday went lower but on less volume.. that is telling me supply side is weakening that was possibly confirmed today... because high volume today did not achieve follow through.
I'm suggesting this stock is close to a wide range up bar, possibly on news that will reverse sentiment resulting in an uptrend. Next time up through $6.15ish, I give it a shot at eventual $7.50 top of structure.

Cheers, M

 

[Billyb]

Nice explanation Mistergear. The last bar's quite narrow for the amount of volume (compare to 23/8), IMO that could be a weak bar but we wouldn't know till the next couple of bars. At the moment it's in a trading range so too early to trade safely IMO. My gut feeling is that this stocks needs to churn more in this trading range, with a bit of testing, before it's ready to go up (if it does go up).

A lot of ASX stocks look the same since Aug 7, I reckon they'll all behave similarly for a while.

My analysis atteached.

 

[skc]

Would someone be kind enough to do an analysis on SIP? My fundamental hat says it has reached a top...

 

[tech/a]

Concur with BB's analysis on AQA. I think it's churning and volumes aren't high or low enough to draw any conclusions.
SIP will have a look a bit later
Mistagear
I'm sure the charts from E signal are trades / timeframe on forex not contracts
I'm not sure about index or other futures.
I'll ask Esignal and Tradeguider the question and see if we cant clear it up.

 

[rx2]

I thought that TG use relative volume readings as well. I'm sure I read something along those lines been a while since I used it though

I am just reading the book myself and yes they it state it uses relative volume. You can see a good example of relative volumes If you go to page 80 and look at the chart. In the chart they show you an up-thrust and have classified the volume as "Ultra High" - which is interesting comparing it the rest of the volumes. Obviously the relativity is being based on some defined period.

 

[tech/a]

Some SIP analysis

Click to expand

 

[Boggo]

My volume and close (Premium Data) for yesterday is different to yours tech/a ?

(click to expand)

 

[tech/a]

Yes I know.

I know the answer as well!

This is my Live Esignal feed and Live Tradeguider charting.
It doesnt up date EOD as quickly as Premium data or my Just Data feed which is
connected to metastock.(I'll download and check that.)
The analysis stays the same though.