Voluntary Euthanasia

[Garpal Gumnut]

The last ASF member to start a thread on this subject was @Julia . She included suicide which I have omitted. Wikipedia gives some commonsense definitions and recent state legislation which I have quoted below.

In this Time of Covid the treatment of our elderly in nursing homes before and during the epidemic has been exposed. I would certainly not wish to be bed bound in one of the institutions slated recently by the Commissioner.

I had been quite anti Euthanasia but having researched it in some detail I am if not exactly pro, believe I myself would consider it in a terminal or getting to useless state.

The epidemic has exposed the normal bloody mindedness of business mostly led by males aged 35-55 in relation to the welfare of the aged in insisting on opening up borders and allowing the virus to infect the population in a "business as usual" manner. If I were to be a burden I would prefer to chose the time and method of my exit, rather than be shunted hither and thither between a ventilator and abuse. I would also prefer to go with dignity if terminally ill.

Australia
Main article: Euthanasia in Australia

As euthanasia is a health issue, under the Australian constitution this falls to state governments to legislate and manage.

Euthanasia was legal within the Northern Territory during parts of 1996 - 1997 as a result of the territory parliament passing Rights of the Terminally Ill Act 1995. As a territory and not a state, the federal government under Prime Minister John Howard amended the Northern Territory (Self-Government) Act 1978 (amongst others) to ensure that territories of Australia are no longer able to legislate on euthanasia.[13] This reversed the legal status of euthanasia in the Northern Territory, where it has remained illegal since. The federal government is not able to legislate restrictions on health issues for the six Australian states in the same manner.[14]

On 29 November 2017, the Victorian Government passed the Voluntary Assisted Dying Act 2017 (Victoria), legalising physician-assisted suicide.[15] The laws came into effect on 19 June 2019 and feature 68 safeguards designed to protect the vulnerable.[16][17] As of February 2020, Victoria is the only Australian state with legalised assisted death, though it will soon be available in Western Australia following the passing of the Voluntary Assisted Dying Act 2019.[18]

gg

 

[lindsayf]

Yes the combination of the CV19 virus and the royal commission into aged care facilities has made the idea of going to a nursing home ( with no nurses) more abhorent than ever.
I would like to think that is not in my future or that by the time I am of that age and condition that the whole sector has had a proper overhaul.

 

[lindsayf]

?I clicked on Julia’s link in your post and it said she last visited the site yesterday...
I always enjoyed her carefully worded and considered posts and opinions.

 

[SirRumpole]

Problem here. I clicked on @Julia in the original post and it came up with details for Ann.

@joeblow , is there an issue with member references ?

 

[PZ99]

I clicked on @PZ99 and it came up with Donald Trump

 

[SirRumpole]

I clicked on @PZ99 and it came up with Donald Trump

It's just fake news.

 

[Joe Blow]

What happened here is when @Garpal Gumnut started the thread he originally had @Ann instead of @Julia. At some point within 30 minutes of starting the thread he must have realised his error and edited his post. However, he only changed the user name, not the user number that references the relevant user. So we have a situation where a user mention says @Julia, but references @Ann.

Very confusing, but it was a user error not a software error. I have now edited GG's original post.

 

[SirRumpole]

Silly users !

Always better than software errors.

 

[dutchie]

I do not have a fear of death. What I do fear is being stuck in an old peoples home being abused with no control over what happens to me.
I choose euthanasia every time. I want that choice.

 

[explod]

A good thread and agree very much that we ought to have the choice to go in our own way. However choosing when is a major issue.

I'm getting on and as I have no partner or dependents have begun to work on a plan. Will get back, been working the veggie patch hard today so cot time.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

A good thread and agree very much that we ought to have the choice to go in our own way. However choosing when is a major issue.

I'm getting on and as I have no partner or dependents have begun to work on a plan. Will get back, been working the veggie patch hard today so cot time.

It certainly is a difficult problem knowing when to die, and sudden death is often a blessing as it takes that decision out of one's hands. The doctors seem to concentrate on keeping us alive and not on ensuring we die when quality of life disappears.

Having read some of the commentary on nursing homes during the pandemic I would agree that I would never willingly enter one as a resident. This is not to criticize the many fine carers, nurses, nursing sisters and doctors who care, in the main, very well for residents.

There do remain the mad and the bad among those professions, not to mention venal and incompetent administrators and owners of those institutions, who can make life a misery, and are dangerous and unpleasant to those under their care.

gg

 

[SirRumpole]

Dying of a terminal disease is reasonably clear cut, if you are going to die painfully in a short time anyway why prolong it ?

Dementia is another issue. Your quality of life will seriously diminish, but by that time you may not be in a fit state to decide that you want to go.

There should be a way that you can specify you want to be euthanised if you are diagnosed with dementia, but that may be a step too far for our legal system.

 

[macca]

I truly do not understand why someone who is terminally ill is artificially kept alive for absolutely no reason.

A person I know was terminally ill with cancer but kept alive in a coma for 6 weeks, eventually the children asked why prolong the agony for all concerned.

Eventually the Doc agreed to turn off the machine, just cruel, no compassion at all

 

[Iggy_Pop]

This is a complex issue with divided opinions among all of us. I have just been through the experience of saying goodbye to my Mum who was 94 year years old. Mum has been ready to move on for a couple of years as she had lost the use of her legs due to aging. I often thought what Mum would have done if euthanasia was available, but my thoughts are that luckily she was mentally very good and enjoyed playing cards and could easily add up the scores. She also enjoyed doing craft work, and luckily she was blessed with 5 children, 17 grandchildren, 27 great grandchildren and 8 great great grandchildren.
So Mum had a constant stream of visitors, regular card games, could get out in a wheel chair up to about six months ago and lived in a small aged care facility. We were lucky with the Covid rules and all had the chance to say goodbye personally. My sister and I were allowed to stay in the room the last week as Mum did not want to be alone at the end. She got her wish, with no pain, surrounded by family, in what she considered her home. About as good as it gets. I really feel for people going through similar goodbyes but with Covid limiting access, it must be hard for all.
So my thoughts are in Mums case, euthanasia was not really required and I doubt she would have taken that step, but she did say many times "I just want to die". I feel this was the frustration of losing her mobility and dealing with pain of being bed bound, then moved around by a sling to a wheel chair.
My experience with the process was positive but obviously some sadness in saying goodbye to Mum. For people who have dementia issues it would be very difficult to come up with some sort of euthanasia policy as this is a slow process and at what stage do you allow people make the decision for euthanasia? I do have another relative in the dementia situation who is still at home at this stage, but not sure where this will end up. I still believe euthanasia would not be suitable.

 

[basilio]

This is a complex issue with divided opinions among all of us. I have just been through the experience of saying goodbye to my Mum who was 94 year years old. Mum has been ready to move on for a couple of years as she had lost the use of her legs due to aging. I often thought what Mum would have done if euthanasia was available, but my thoughts are that luckily she was mentally very good and enjoyed playing cards and could easily add up the scores. She also enjoyed doing craft work, and luckily she was blessed with 5 children, 17 grandchildren, 27 great grandchildren and 8 great great grandchildren.
So Mum had a constant stream of visitors, regular card games, could get out in a wheel chair up to about six months ago and lived in a small aged care facility. We were lucky with the Covid rules and all had the chance to say goodbye personally. My sister and I were allowed to stay in the room the last week as Mum did not want to be alone at the end. She got her wish, with no pain, surrounded by family, in what she considered her home. About as good as it gets. I really feel for people going through similar goodbyes but with Covid limiting access, it must be hard for all.
So my thoughts are in Mums case, euthanasia was not really required and I doubt she would have taken that step, but she did say many times "I just want to die". I feel this was the frustration of losing her mobility and dealing with pain of being bed bound, then moved around by a sling to a wheel chair.
My experience with the process was positive but obviously some sadness in saying goodbye to Mum. For people who have dementia issues it would be very difficult to come up with some sort of euthanasia policy as this is a slow process and at what stage do you allow people make the decision for euthanasia? I do have another relative in the dementia situation who is still at home at this stage, but not sure where this will end up. I still believe euthanasia would not be suitable.

Nice one Iggy. Eerie actually because it reflects almost 90% of my experience with my mother and the last years of her life. She lived well and even as she sucumbed to dementia there were still glimpses of the clever loving person she was. One striking memory was watching Mum play cards even when most of her memory was shot. She could still count suits and strategise !!

From my experience the medical profession does not try to keep people alive when quality of life has deteriorated badly. There is definitely a point at which nature should take its course. Pneumonia is colloquially known as the old mans friend.

It's true that the quality of life in many aged care facilities is mediocre. Unfortunately the majority are now very profit driven and this is reflected in minimal staffing levels and minimal activities.

 

[basilio]

I truly do not understand why someone who is terminally ill is artificially kept alive for absolutely no reason.

A person I know was terminally ill with cancer but kept alive in a coma for 6 weeks, eventually the children asked why prolong the agony for all concerned.

Eventually the Doc agreed to turn off the machine, just cruel, no compassion at all

That is disturbing. From my experience the decision to pull the plug in such circumstances would be taken far quicker.

It would depend on how advanced the cancer was and how severe the illness currently causing the coma. For instance if there was going to be reasonable quality of life for some time and the coma inducing condition seemed likely to be resolved than a doctor could advise wait and see. But on the face of it - no.

 

[macca]

That is disturbing. From my experience the decision to pull the plug in such circumstances would be taken far quicker.

It would depend on how advanced the cancer was and how severe the illness currently causing the coma. For instance if there was going to be reasonable quality of life for some time and the coma inducing condition seemed likely to be resolved than a doctor could advise wait and see. But on the face of it - no.

When admitted the final time after a year of treatments the prognosis was "no hope" only a matter of time

The family all gathered, eventually , many had to go back home or work as the machines kept the patient alive, some still suffer from the anguish the unnecessary delay caused.

The family attitude is "I guess the hospital could send more bills to the health fund "

 

[noirua]

Dutch woman, 29, granted euthanasia approval on grounds of mental suffering

Zoraya ter Beek, who has chronic depression, anxiety, trauma and unspecified personality disorder, expected to end her life soon

www.theguardian.com

Thu 16 May 2024 12.00 GMT+1
Ter Beek’s difficulties began in early childhood. She has chronic depression, anxiety, trauma, and unspecified personality disorder. She has also been diagnosed with autism. When she met her partner, she thought the safe environment he offered would heal her. “But I continued to self-harm and feel suicidal.”