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Van Tharp - Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom

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Tech
Does this book do as much as Tharp's $1000 home study course? Basically, I want to know if I should invest the $1000 in Tharp's course.
Thanks in advance of your advice.
 
I just bought Tharp's - Trade your way to financial freedom book yesterday. Seems good so far
 
Bin57again said:
Tech
Does this book do as much as Tharp's $1000 home study course? Basically, I want to know if I should invest the $1000 in Tharp's course.
Thanks in advance of your advice.
Click to expand...

I havent seen the Course but read the book so cant comment on the course itself.

Personally I'd invest in education with Nick Radge.

He's in Aust,a straight shooter.More experience than most educators.
Has a great support instrument through his site and WILL show you the way to Profit in the market. You'll have access to a real person not just a course.

Email him and ask what he can offer.

Set out what you want to achieve as specifically as you can and I'm sure nick will have something that will suit.
Here I can speak from experience---best I've seen by a mile.
 
I've seen Radge's site and know he's (1) genuine; (2) well regarded. His service seems more appropriate for learning how to enter discretionary trades. How do you build a positive expectancy or system from his advice? How does it work? Do you follow each of his thoughts or do you get an idea of how he trades and try and learn from that?
On the Tharp issue, this is the link for his course. I'm wondering whether anyone has used it? $1000 is a lot but you know what? Time is my biggest enemy. I've been trying to put together so many of the items discussed above by RichKid and others over the last 2 years. The penny finally dropped that the least important element is entry. Tharp's course seems a snip at $1000 when you think most systems could give you that back in days.
http://www.iitm.com/products/systapes/trading-system-home-study.htm
 
Bin57again said:
I've seen Radge's site and know he's (1) genuine; (2) well regarded. His service seems more appropriate for learning how to enter discretionary trades. How do you build a positive expectancy or system from his advice? How does it work? Do you follow each of his thoughts or do you get an idea of how he trades and try and learn from that?
On the Tharp issue, this is the link for his course. I'm wondering whether anyone has used it? $1000 is a lot but you know what? Time is my biggest enemy. I've been trying to put together so many of the items discussed above by RichKid and others over the last 2 years. The penny finally dropped that the least important element is entry. Tharp's course seems a snip at $1000 when you think most systems could give you that back in days.
http://www.iitm.com/products/systapes/trading-system-home-study.htm
Click to expand...

My understanding is that Radge has extensive experience in systems trading, not just discretionary trading, although he explains the money and risk mgmt of the latter better than anyone else on ASF imo, just speak to Radge and see what he says or buy his Adaptive Analysis first and see the thread on his book here on ASF. Good luck Binh and don't be eager to part with your hard earned capital so easily!!
 
Bin57again said:
I've seen Radge's site and know he's (1) genuine; (2) well regarded. His service seems more appropriate for learning how to enter discretionary trades. How do you build a positive expectancy or system from his advice? How does it work? Do you follow each of his thoughts or do you get an idea of how he trades and try and learn from that?
On the Tharp issue, this is the link for his course. I'm wondering whether anyone has used it? $1000 is a lot but you know what? Time is my biggest enemy. I've been trying to put together so many of the items discussed above by RichKid and others over the last 2 years. The penny finally dropped that the least important element is entry. Tharp's course seems a snip at $1000 when you think most systems could give you that back in days.
http://www.iitm.com/products/systapes/trading-system-home-study.htm
Click to expand...

Bin,
Mr Tharp has probably been my biggest influence, as I have done extensive reading and research on what the guy offers. Regarding his courses, I did not even consider them due to the cost element. His book is good, but there is a lot more you can get without buying his courses - please think about that. I do believe his courses would be very good quality though. Importantly you should read his special report on money management even if you have to buy it - though some of it may not be simple to follow; some is not relevant to the AUS market either. Mr Radge has been a big influence too.

Watch these: http://www.yourproductteam.com/ftp/Rmultiples/player.html
http://www.yourproductteam.com/ftp/STDEV/player.html
http://www.yourproductteam.com/ftp/Confidence/player.html
 
Bin57again said:
I've seen Radge's site and know he's (1) genuine; (2) well regarded. His service seems more appropriate for learning how to enter discretionary trades. How do you build a positive expectancy or system from his advice? How does it work? Do you follow each of his thoughts or do you get an idea of how he trades and try and learn from that?
On the Tharp issue, this is the link for his course. I'm wondering whether anyone has used it? $1000 is a lot but you know what? Time is my biggest enemy. I've been trying to put together so many of the items discussed above by RichKid and others over the last 2 years. The penny finally dropped that the least important element is entry. Tharp's course seems a snip at $1000 when you think most systems could give you that back in days.
http://www.iitm.com/products/systapes/trading-system-home-study.htm
Click to expand...


I have know Nick for around 10 yrs.
I can assure you there are few who understand expectancy more than Nick.
Let me also assure you that Nick wont trade anything without a proven expectancy. Where can you get advice from an ex Floor trader CBOT,London and SFE who lives in Australia.

Start simply with a "Positive Expectancy" with regard to Nicks ability as an educator.

Simply ask him how to design your trading around a positive expectancy.
Pay the man and the rest will be up to you to implement!
Bet you get the cost of education back 10 fold in quick time. I did!!! (actually its around 250x).
 
It's Snake Pliskin said:
Bin,
Mr Tharp has probably been my biggest influence, as I have done extensive reading and research on what the guy offers. Regarding his courses, I did not even consider them due to the cost element. His book is good, but there is a lot more you can get without buying his courses - please think about that. I do believe his courses would be very good quality though. Importantly you should read his special report on money management even if you have to buy it - though some of it may not be simple to follow; some is not relevant to the AUS market either. Mr Radge has been a big influence too.

Watch these: http://www.yourproductteam.com/ftp/Rmultiples/player.html
http://www.yourproductteam.com/ftp/STDEV/player.html
http://www.yourproductteam.com/ftp/Confidence/player.html
Click to expand...

Snake speaks the truth about the cost of the courses Bin! ;) I found those video tutes really helpful as well, very simple. Also look for the 'free stuff' thread on ASF for freebies, I think the money mgmt report may be linked there too.
 
Bin,
From the Van Tharp Institute:

Kick Start Your Trading Career

The Workshop Hierarchy

With our launch of the 2007 workshop schedule, now is a good time to address the topic of "What courses should I attend if I really want to become a great trader/investor?"

We get many inquiries here at the Van Tharp Institute from people just like you, who weigh the value and opportunity, versus the time, travel and expense that they have to incur to attend a trading workshop. Therefore, to make the choice easier for you (one way or the other), I thought it would be valuable to provide an outline of what our workshops are and how they fit together, so that you can make an informed decision as to whether attending a workshop is something that you would like to do. In addition I'm making you an exceptional offer at the end of this article.

Thankfully, our workshops have a great reputation both for their content and for the level of attendees that frequent our events. This incredibly high caliber of clientele just keep coming back. Time and time again, we see the familiar faces repeating or attending a new course both for the educational experience and the networking opportunities – so we must be doing something right!

Whether you are starting out on the trading journey or have been a trader for many years, there are fundamental strengths that will help you to be the best trader you can be and our goal is to give you the tools and materials to help you do just that.

Van K. Tharp has close to 25 years of experience coaching traders, and in conjunction with his world class instructors, they have put together a trading curriculum that is unrivalled in the industry.

I. Foundation Workshops – Tharp Fundamentals and the Backbone of Great Trading

Although these workshops are called Foundation Workshops, they are definitely not basic. We name them that simply because they provide the core material that everyone who wants to become a great trader should master. We regard them as the starting point for your trading education regardless of your background or trading experience. Also, these core workshops are just as valuable for the short term trader as they are for the long term trader because what you learn is not dependent on the market traded, nor the timeframe.

Blueprint for Trading Success
Peak Performance 101
How to Develop a Winning Trading System that Fits You
These courses will help you master yourself, understand what you need to do for profitable trading, learn to develop a blueprint for trading/investing success, and learn how to develop systems that fit who you are

II. Specific Strategies and Proven Techniques in Various Trading Styles

Once you have a solid foundation and understand a new way of thinking about trading and investing, then we offer many courses that will give you a technical background and help you fill in the details that you will probably want. Can you take these courses without the foundation material? Yes you can, but doing so is like learning how to write a specific computer program without even knowing the basics of computer programming or understanding the potential mistakes that you could make.

Proven Swing Trading Strategies
Professional E-Mini Futures Tactics
Highly Effective ETF and Mutual Fund Techniques (this is essentially our course for learning great stock market trading techniques).
Professional Day Trading Strategies
III. Pre-requisite Material

We have one course and one program that definitely require other pre-requisite courses, so we’ve put these at the last level.

Advanced Peak Performance 202 (Peak 101 is a pre-requisite).
The Super Trader Program. (Peak 101 and Dr. Tharp’s approval required).
This week we’ll take a look at our Foundation Workshops:

How Our Courses Work

1. The Blueprint for Trading Success Workshop is the ultimate course to provide you with exactly what you need to master trading success, whether you are a full-time professional who wants a solid foundation or someone who would like to make a lot of money trading/investing and eventually move into trading full time for yourself. Dr. Tharp will walk you step- by- step through a series of 52 pertinent questions designed to get you thinking strategically about your trading. He will touch on all of the specific areas that you need to address, in the order that you need to address them. You will walk away from this workshop with a business plan outline and an understanding of why you want to trade, how you want to trade, the specific steps that you need to take to create a winning trading plan that works in any market condition and what type of trading systems you want to incorporate into your plan. You’ll also learn some of the key things that you need to personally master in order to be successful. You will learn how expectancy, position sizing, R-multiples, objectives, the big picture and other Tharp concepts fit together. After this workshop, you will know where you need to delve next to increase your profits and success in the markets.

2. Peak Performance 101. We have identified two types of people that frequent the Van Tharp Institute – those that believe that trading is purely technical and a learned skill (those people tend to head for the Systems and Strategy workshops first and eventually join us at Peak 101), and those who already know that their thoughts and beliefs play a huge role in their individual trading results. The bottom line is that we can prove that trading is largely psychological and that you must master yourself if you want great trading results. Peak Performance 101 is Dr. Tharp’s core psychological workshop and his most famous course for over 15 years. This is the workshop for anyone wanting to know how great traders think, behave and act so that they get consistent and profitable results, without stress. In this workshop, not only will you learn what makes a great trader great, but you will also find out what is holding you back. Whether it’s overtrading, not pulling the trigger, over confidence or lack of confidence, or just making mistake after mistake – there are many ways that people sabotage their market experiences. Taught exclusively by Dr Tharp, this workshop is designed to break down any barriers that you may have, as well as teaching you specific tasks and strategies that will improve your trading results overnight.

3. Developing a Winning Trading System that Fits You. We meet many people every year who spend small fortunes buying other people’s trading systems, and following their recommendations and ideas – yet they still don’t win in the markets. Is it because we think that we can’t do it ourselves? Or is there a holy grail that a few have mastered and when they do they won’t share it? Well, Jack Schwager, after writing Market Wizards and The New Market Wizards concluded that the secret was to develop and trade a system that fits you. And that’s what we help you do in this course. Don’t be confused with thinking that “creating a system” is having the technical know-how to develop a cutting edge software program. That’s great if you have that skill, but that is not a proper trading system. Anyone can create one if they have the knowledge and commitment to do it. In this workshop, you will learn the key components of a trading system (there are more than most people realize), how and why they are needed, and how to use position sizing to help you fulfill your trading objectives.

Summary

As you can see, these are the three core workshops that form the basis of Dr. Van Tharp’s work. But it takes commitment and discipline. Once you know how you think and why, uncover what you really want to achieve with your trading and then develop a specific plan to make it happen. You can fit workable trading systems into that plan and you’ll be well on your way to success as a trader. From there, you can look at specific trading strategies that might fit with who you are and add them to your arsenal. For example, many such techniques are taught in the upcoming swing trading workshop. We’ll look at some of the Specific Strategy Courses next week.
Click to expand...
 
Rich/Snake- thanks, you're right, parting with cash may make me feel like I'm getting something but ultimately you have to do the hard work yourself. I'll do as you suggest. Thanks also guys for the links/info.
Tech - I think I'll try and contact Nick Radge. Should I email Trish on his website? How do I approach him? It's not so much that I want to learn about +expectancy. I think I have a grasp (sure, I'm not an expert). What I want to know is how to put together a paper which outlines the system/plan. E.g. the paper would say:
Objectives, starting capital, etc. Then:
1. What is the set-up (let's say some type of breakout).
2. Which instrument - let's say ASX CFDs
3. Timeframe - let's say position (days to weeks)
4. Entry - basically the set-up where you can enter at low risk (define - %, ATR, support/resistance, whatever).
5. Exits
6. Position sizing
7. Risk of ruin, max.drawdown/consecutive losses, etc
I know it's individual but having someone criticise the paper, add input, say "yeh, sure but have you (1) monte carlo'd it; or (2) your data's not big enough; or (3) what about this or that; (4) have you realised this or that?
Sorry for rambling.
Could he help with this do you think? I basically need a mentor!
Best regards.
 
I got a lot from Van Tharp's book. I like the Holy Grail stuff at the front, and the system testing and position sizing info really made me search for suitable portfolio testing software (MS / TradeSim / AmiBroker).

Rather than give a method he gives a framework for assessing methods. If you want to develop your own systems and approach to the market then this is a very good book to read. I thought that the title was a little outrageous but there is a lot of excellent stuff in between the covers.

I also wonder if the book outlines 99% of what Van Tharp has to say and all the courses etc that he runs is really just a repeat of the themes in the book. But then I haven't had the urge or need to shell out the dollars for any of his other stuff.

regards
Steve
 
Stevo
Having looked into Tharp's courses a bit more (to be honest RichKid and Snake had already convinced me not to spend the $1000) I think you're right when you say they probably just re-run the themes in the book. For example, I re-read last night chapter 3, the interview with Tom Basso and the section on sorting out your objectives, analysing what pschological issues you have (I've got many - not all trading related!), etc. It's clear that if you do the "homework" the book sets you, you're probably on your way. (Just as a side comment, it bugged me a bit how perfect Basso's answers were. E.g. do you have any weaknesses or problems? None, etc.) Anyway, as I said, I'll keep the $1000.
Bin
PS - Has anyone checked out Van Tharp's simulator/trading game on position sizing? I found it useful. See top right of link headed "Van Tharp's trading game". http://www.iitm.com/
 
Bin57again said:
PS - Has anyone checked out Van Tharp's simulator/trading game on position sizing? I found it useful. See top right of link headed "Van Tharp's trading game". http://www.iitm.com/
Click to expand...

I'm downloading it right now.

I know this is naughty, but does anyone have the full version copy of it?...if so, please message me.
 
Has anyone tried Athena, the position size software which Tharp recommends?

Qaz -Sorry I don't (otherwise I would lend you have a copy). If I come across one, I'll buzz you. I found it helpful just playing 1-3 (the latter stages seem a rehash of the principles of 1-3).
 
Hi Bin57
I haven't looked at athena but I do recommend having a look at Stator which has a free download. It is portfolio management software that has a very good position sizing calculator included amongst a lot of additional features. The author is continuously developing the software. It is a great product.

http://www.stator-afm.com/


Cheers

Shane
PS I have no financial interest in Stator. Just a very happy user.
 
I thought that Athena software mentioned in TYWTFF was more like TradeSim or maybe even MSA. From memory it was used to backtest different position sizing strategies.

Stevo
 

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