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Ukraine War

Zelensky has handled the US poorly.

It is commendable to stand up to a bully, but when you have one either side of you it is smarter to play the bullies against each other.

Zelensky should have shut his mouth, got the deal done, and then used some clever and wise words later.
 
Comment sums it up


Let ‘s get a truly unprecedented event straight: Trump betrayed an ally at war a second time.
He reduced the indiscriminate destruction of his ally ‘s country to a ‘bad negotiating position’. Reduced the heroic and justified defense of a nation to ‘refusing to make peace’.
Trump accused the beleaguered president, NOT the attacker, of ‘gambling with the start of WWIII’, simply for refusing to surrender. Acting under the delusion of being a great dealmaker, he pushed the monetization of his ally ‘s distress by forcing him into making a ‘good deal’ and just wouldn‘t stop using the ‘playing cards’ expression.
Adding insult to injury, Trump and Vance whined about the lack of gratitude they experienced for their betrayal. All this happened while this foreign head of state was a guest in their house.
In doing so, Trump followed Putin ‘s agenda like a slave. As usual.
This whole disaster of incompetence unfolded IN THE WHITE HOUSE, IN FRONT OF THE WORLD PRESS, with Trump jesting that it was ‘great television’. MAGA just means: making America the laughing stock again, isolated, shunned, alone.
Who is going to investigate the ‘kompromat’ that Putin has over Trump?
 
Sums it up if you are a retard. Focusing on that one incident and ignoring everything else is real legit. Getting to a ceasefire prevents more casualties. Rough estimate is about 2000 killed/wounded both sides. We go all out war to push Russia out and its going to be tens of thousands. When did resolving a war through diplomacy become such a second thought?

Russia isn't some small backwater. It's a superpower that has modernised its tactics in Ukraine. Also some of the biggest nukes on the planet. They will inevitably keep creeping forward gaining ground the longer it drags on.

Zelensky is a corrupt installed puppet. Most likely by Victor Pinchuk (very pro west) and Igor Kolomoyskyi (this guy ended up arrested though). Zelensky played the president on a TV show before the oligarchs installed him. All three have links to Israel so US by proxy.
You also had Pandora Papers revelations and a bunch of govt and military getting locked up for corruption. Ukraine is known for corruption.

Add in the CIA, Obama, the Biden corruption, biolabs, election rigging followed by election coup and a million other things. It all stinks. The whole thing is like a movie with a million sub-plots.


So if they want to keep dying then they can lose more citizens. If Russia moved on Poland that's different and I'd be for war. But US and Europe brushed too far up against Russia and wanted to drop missile defence in Ukraine. Russia will now keep fighting no matter what for that buffer space. So it's either WW3 or sit at the negotiating table.
 
In reality, Zelenskyy in typical arrogant left wing protocol, went to Trump for handout money, Trump said only on these conditions Zelensky said no and then they started arguing.

Zelenskyy's fall back position was for Europe to come to the party and stump up the money, the U.K wants to lend it to them, which is the same as Trump just put a different way.

The EU kind of looks down and starts mumbling and kicking the stones around at their feet, which is what the EU does.
So now the left wing approach of brow beating and demanding has failed, they have to go back to the U.S cap in hand and mumbling sorry.

Obviously the left wing lunatics, ran up against right wing lunatics and reality broke through as usually happens, eventually..
 
Cartoons aren't really appropriate, in such a terrible conflict and such a dangerous situation IMO.

Western countries bludging on the U.S and then lambasting them when the U.S gets fed up with it, really just shows the level of entitlement in the Western countries.

The EU should be able to defend itself and be enough of a deterent to stop Russia, the reality is, they have been letting the U.S spend their money on defense, so that the EU didn't have to spend any and could free load on the U.S.

It couldn't go on forever and really if it wasn't Trump it would have been someone else, the fact that Trump is rude and obnoxious just means it happened sooner rather than later IMO.
But it had to happen, the U.S is going broke by all accounts, also most Western countries have been bagging the U.S for years about wars on foriegn soil, Howard was constantly being criticised for supporting them.

Funny how things change.
 
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What? Nothing to do with left politics. Trump wanted a deal with no guarantee no sfa but was going to take minerals for nothing meanwhile Russia keeps killing its neighbour which bit did you miss? Trump is a coward fine just a note on US spending they sent all their old ordinance equipment with limitations and only recently sent high end weapons.
 
if that was true, Zelenskyy would tell Trump to pizz of and get the UK and EU to sort it out, you must dream this stuff up.
The EU UK and Aust will be buying heaps of US arms, which will help the US bankbook.
 
Former President of Poland Lech Walesa wrote the following letter to Trump.

Your Excellency, Mr. President,

We watched the report of your conversation with the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, with fear and distaste. We find it insulting that you expect Ukraine to show respect and gratitude for the material assistance provided by the United States in its fight against russia. Gratitude is owed to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who shed their blood in defense of the values of the free world. They have been dying on the front lines for more than 11 years in the name of these values and the independence of their homeland, which was attacked by Putin’s russia.

We do not understand how the leader of a country that symbolizes the free world cannot recognize this.

Our alarm was also heightened by the atmosphere in the Oval Office during this conversation, which reminded us of the interrogations we endured at the hands of the Security Services and the debates in Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, acting on behalf of the all-powerful communist political police, would explain to us that they held all the power while we held none. They demanded that we cease our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people suffered because of us. They stripped us of our freedoms and civil rights because we refused to cooperate with the government or express gratitude for our oppression. We are shocked that President Volodymyr Zelensky was treated in the same manner.

The history of the 20th century shows that whenever the United States sought to distance itself from democratic values and its European allies, it ultimately became a threat to itself. President Woodrow Wilson understood this when he decided in 1917 that the United States must join World War I. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt understood this when, after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, he resolved that the war to defend America must be fought not only in the Pacific but also in Europe, in alliance with the nations under attack by the Third Reich.

We remember that without President Ronald Reagan and America’s financial commitment, the collapse of the Soviet empire would not have been possible. President Reagan recognized that millions of enslaved people suffered in Soviet russia and the countries it had subjugated, including thousands of political prisoners who paid for their defense of democratic values with their freedom. His greatness lay, among other things, in his unwavering decision to call the USSR an “Empire of Evil” and to fight it decisively. We won, and today, the statue of President Ronald Reagan stands in Warsaw, facing the U.S. Embassy.

Mr. President, material aid—military and financial—can never be equated with the blood shed in the name of Ukraine’s independence and the freedom of Europe and the entire free world. Human life is priceless; its value cannot be measured in money. Gratitude is due to those who sacrifice their blood and their freedom. This is self-evident to us, the people of Solidarity, former political prisoners of the communist regime under Soviet russia.

We call on the United States to uphold the guarantees made alongside Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity in exchange for its relinquishment of nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional—there is no mention of treating such assistance as an economic transaction.

Signed,

Lech Wałęsa, former political prisoner, President of Poland
 
Russia will not stop as Ukraine is literally the last place before NATO has a complete front line against the Russian border. This war is not winnable and the next step is escalation on Russia's part.
 
Washington simply can’t afford to support another forever war in Ukraine, quite aside from the likely loss of life that ultimately includes US troops.
The US has World War II levels of debt without having remotely fought a world war. Public debt as a share of GDP in the US is already 100 per cent and on track for 118 per cent within a decade, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Spending on interest already exceeds spending on the military. US budget deficits of $US2 trillion ($3.1 trillion) a year, more than 6 per cent of GDP, have been pencilled in as far as the eye can see.

 
IMO that's the underlying issue, causing most of the problems, the West has lost its fiscal responsibility and China/Russia are trying to exploit it.

If the U.S loses the reserve currency status the West is done, as China will take over the control of each countries exchange rate and money printing will not be an option any longer.

The West has to get more fiscally responsible, you just have to listen to our politicians making promises hand over fist pre election, to realise there is no plan other than throwing money around with gay abandon. There is no structural changes announced, to turn around any of our failing institutions, failing industries or failing housing just throw more money at anything that sounds popular.

Trump is a huge disrupter, but the West needs that to shake the tree and get countries to get their house in order, or China will quietly screw the West while Russia provides the misdirection IMO.

Only my opinion, same as everyone else on the forum and about the same value as everyone else's.
 
Russia plays two cards
1. the international victim
2. escalation (nukes) against any resistance

But the reality, it is the aggressor
Absolutely true.
But there's a history of encroachment that I think now became the line in the sand. Eventually reality has to hit.
I want to know what Europe thinks the endgame is to all this.
 

Well worth noting just how much the US military aid , which Trump wants backs in spades and rare earths, "cost" the US.

Copy comes from Country First site.
..................................................................
Friend --

Democracy is under attack—and we need you to take action.

Join us for our next Dayof Action as we lobby key members of Congress to stand withUkraine and oppose any attempt by the Trump Administration to throwUkraine under the bus.

At Country First, we believe America’s foreign policy reflects our values—it defines who we are as a nation and what we stand for.

Yet, we’ve seen the Trump Administration distort history, absurdly claiming that Ukraine invaded Russia, and that President Zelensky is a dictator. Give me a break. And now, they want Ukraine to pay the United States back for any assistance provided. But when you have a President who only understands transactional dealing and transactional relationships, this is not surprising.

The actions of the President and Vice President in the OvalOffice today was an absolute disgrace.

Let’s Set the Record Straight:

  • Money for Ukraine Aid is largely spent right here in the U.S.—funding American defense contractors to build more weapons and munitions.
  • Much of the assistance has come from retired U.S. defense equipment—not taxpayer cash being handed out. And that retired equipment is assigned a $ value
  • This is about defending democracy at home and abroad—because if we let Putin win, authoritarians everywhere will be emboldened.
  • The actions of the President and Vice President today telegraphed to the murderous thug, Putin, that he has the upper hand.
Join us this Thursday, March 6, 2025 for our Day of Action.
Keep up the pressure. Standup for Ukraine.

Sign up now for our Dayof Action and help us demand that Congress hold the line againstPutin’s aggression.


Adam Kinzinger
https://www.country1st.com/
 
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