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Both men are entertainment industry veterans.... actors...
The odds of this being staged are not insignificant in my mind.
Ukraine War
- Thread starter robertbanking
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The odds of this being staged are not insignificant in my mind.
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Highly possible, but it does highlight how fickle dependence on others is, there are a lot of leaners and not a lot of lifters in the World to use a quote.
Don't believe the partial clip as the sum of the discussion. Zelensky started to push and argue. He actually tried to blow up the negotiations. Zelensky looked like an idiot and basically threw it back in their face. Vance and Trump were partially blindsided. Media then clipped to suit.
Delaying negotiations and letting 100s if not thousands more die, in a war you can't win. While simultaneously trying to get NATO involved to start WW3 is delusional at this point.
Going on TV and blowing up negotiations in real time while you are literally holding zero cards is interesting tactics.
Going on TV and blowing up negotiations in real time while you are literally holding zero cards is interesting tactics.
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A negotiated outcome is obviously the best way forward, other than all out war, which will include Europe and Europe aren't in any military position to take on Russia without the aid of the U.S.
If the U.S is involved one would expect China and North Korea to get involved, as they have obviously stated their affiliations and China wants Russia's minerals and energy resources. Plus an escalation of the U.S involvement in Europe would make Taiwan an easy target.
So interesting impasse, Ukraine wants backing but isn't keen on paying for it, U.S wants paying for what they are supplying and the EU doesn't really want to have to pay anyone or get physically involved.
It will make a good movie down the track.
Knobby22
Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast
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USA will take the resources but won't back them. No help from now on.
Putin even promised the same deal to the USA in case he took over.
Not even getting a peace treaty, just a ceasefire.
The USA could pressure Putin a bit they are doing nothing. From the Ukrainian view its a worse case scenario. How can Zelensky sign?
Trump needs to stop being a puppy to Putin.
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I don't think he is being a puppet to Putin, he just doesn't want to throw more U.S money at the underdog, I don't think he actually cares who wins, the U.S is a long way away and unless there is something in it for them, he reckons the EU can sort it out.
Funnily enough it wasn't long ago many were calling for the U.S to get out of the middle East, Afghanistan and stay out of other countries issues, now they are doing that everyone is upset.
Is it a case of be careful what you wish for, Australian media bag the U.S and the U.K endlessly, interesting times when global tensions rise and small countries are looking for a big mate.
Kev gagged on his Weeties a couple of months ago, from past indiscretions regarding Trump, now Kev wants to be BFF with his mate Don.
It funny how life can change, in a very short period of time.
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Knobby22
Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast
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Would you sign the deal?I don't think he is being a puppet to Putin, he just doesn't want to throw more U.S money at the underdog, I don't think he actually cares who wins, the U.S is a long way away and unless there is something in it for them, he reckons the EU can sort it out.
Funnily enough it wasn't long ago many were calling for the U.S to get out of the middle East, Afghanistan and stay out of other countries issues, now they are doing that everyone is upset.
Is it a case of be careful what you wish for, Australian media bag the U.S and the U.K endlessly, interesting times when global tensions rise and small countries are looking for a big mate.
Kev gagged on his Weeties a couple of months ago, from past indiscretions regarding Trump, now Kev wants to be BFF with his mate Don.
It funny how life can change, in a very short period of time.
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I would put it to the people, I wouldn't take it upon myself to make that decision, the leaders job is to get the best options to present.
The first rule in negotiations is to not say no, once that has been said there isn't any further negotiation.
The real issue is, why has the war being going for 3 years and it is only now that negotiations have actually started, a lot of people have died, same as in Palestine, it seems that people dying is the least thing of concern.
I will put to you Knobby, would you be prepared to send your kids to fight in Ukraine, if they don't come to a deal? Because Ukraine may need extra forces if a negotiated settlement isn't reached and the EU, UK and Australia could be called upon, as Ukraine can't hold off Russia forever.
Albanese backs Ukraine after Trump’s catastrophic meeting with Zelensky
The Australian prime minister has joined other world leaders in rallying behind the Ukrainian president after an angry confrontation with the US president in the Oval Office.
From the U.S perspective, the last Govt seemed to be happy with the war lingering on and it kept their munitions companies busy.
This Govt seems to want to try and reduce the U.S debt and doesn't want to keep pouring money into overseas wars.
Both sides of politics have their reasons and they are allowed to, same as we are that's democracy.
It isn't perfect but that's what we have.
As for the deal, I haven't read it, but if it is anything like Australia's LNG deal, it will be terrible and we didn't have to get threatened to sign it.
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The left has turned into a pretzel. Trump wants peace, Zelensky doesn't
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@DB008 One thing that is not mentioned with any peace talk or deals done.
Will the aggressor Russia abide by it or just keep on invading because The Trumpet is now jammed up his backside.
Will Russia abide by peacekeeping forces that are set up to maintain that
I doubt it.
just a modern-day Stalin or Hitler, take your pick
No country will get in-between the US and a bunch of Commodities. Ukraine needs a deal. That's it. People would rather risk WW3 than supporting Trump in any manner is wild.
It's legit war with a nuclear power and Russia won't mess around. China, Russia, Iran are already primed for war. The west is full of limpwrists.
I'd want everyone supporting war and their families getting conscripted to the front lines first.
It's legit war with a nuclear power and Russia won't mess around. China, Russia, Iran are already primed for war. The west is full of limpwrists.
I'd want everyone supporting war and their families getting conscripted to the front lines first.
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As Moxjo said the U.S is going to be heavily dependent on rare earths from Ukraine, China at the moment has the U.S over a barrel with regard rare earths, so it would be in U.S best interest to stop a Russia/China takeover of Ukraine.
As for giving a never ending binding security agreement to the Ukraine, well no country in the World has a security deal like that, we don't
Jeezus it was only the other day that Trump said "what the hell is AUKUS and we are buying $300billion dollars of subs off him LOL and you guys are all out of shape because Trump wont give Ukraine a lifetime warranty on saving them.
Really?
The only thing that will save our ar$e, is the U.S and U.K's mining and commerce interests in Australia, Ukraine really needs to get NATO membership and NATO needs to grow a pair if they are going to be able to stare down Russia.
Globalisation has broken down a lot of the demarcation lines between countries, cultures and politics, wars wont be fought over politics as much as they were in the past, in the future it will be mainly over diminishing reserves of materials and energy and who has them IMO.
At the moment Ukraine has the materials that the U.S wants and possibly Russia wants, so they may well be just the meat in the sandwich.
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There's a couple things going on. New world order is taking shape and just like the move from agricultural to the industrial age completely changed laws and economies. So to will the move to the digital age.As Moxjo said the U.S is going to be heavily dependent on rare earths from Ukraine, China at the moment has the U.S over a barrel with regard rare earths, so it would be in U.S best interest to stop a Russia/China takeover of Ukraine.
As for giving a never ending binding security agreement to the Ukraine, well no country in the World has a security deal like that, we don't
Jeezus it was only the other day that Trump said "what the hell is AUKUS and we are buying $300billion dollars of subs off him LOL and you guys are all out of shape because Trump wont give Ukraine a lifetime warranty on saving them.
Really?
The only thing that will save our ar$e, is the U.S and U.K's mining and commerce interests in Australia, Ukraine really needs to get NATO membership and NATO needs to grow a pair if they are going to be able to stare down Russia.
Globalisation has broken down a lot of the demarcation lines between countries, cultures and politics, wars wont be fought over politics as much as they were in the past, in the future it will be mainly over diminishing reserves of materials and energy and who has them IMO.
At the moment Ukraine has the materials that the U.S wants and possibly Russia wants, so they may well be just the meat in the sandwich.
Schools are now obsolete for the most part. Getting ready for careers is basically over. Which is causing a disconnect in the youth. It needs to be addressed quickly.
Dona Ferentes
beware the aedes of marsh
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in the mail
Knobby22
Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast
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You are skirting the issue.I would put it to the people, I wouldn't take it upon myself to make that decision, the leaders job is to get the best options to present.
The first rule in negotiations is to not say no, once that has been said there isn't any further negotiation.
The real issue is, why has the war being going for 3 years and it is only now that negotiations have actually started, a lot of people have died, same as in Palestine, it seems that people dying is the least thing of concern.
I will put to you Knobby, would you be prepared to send your kids to fight in Ukraine, if they don't come to a deal? Because Ukraine may need extra forces if a negotiated settlement isn't reached and the EU, UK and Australia could be called upon, as Ukraine can't hold off Russia forever.
Albanese backs Ukraine after Trump’s catastrophic meeting with Zelensky
The Australian prime minister has joined other world leaders in rallying behind the Ukrainian president after an angry confrontation with the US president in the Oval Office.www.theage.com.au
From the U.S perspective, the last Govt seemed to be happy with the war lingering on and it kept their munitions companies busy.
This Govt seems to want to try and reduce the U.S debt and doesn't want to keep pouring money into overseas wars.
Both sides of politics have their reasons and they are allowed to, same as we are that's democracy.
It isn't perfect but that's what we have.
As for the deal, I haven't read it, but if it is anything like Australia's LNG deal, it will be terrible and we didn't have to get threatened to sign it.
I'm reading that you all see it as being anti Trump. I was hoping for a famous deal. Not this limp wristed do whatever Putin wants.
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Like Trump has said so often, it is difficult to understand why the US has to even be involved in this mess, much less sort it out.
They are supposed to fix the Russia/Ukraine thing, fix up the entire middle east, and all at the same time as trying to fix their own myriad of internal problems.
Its a European problem.
There are 500+ million people in Europe once you take out Russia's 144 mill,
Russia's GDP at 2.2 Trillion is barely 10% of the Rest of Europe's 29 trillion.
So it should not be problem with size mismatch, everything in Europe apart from land area dwarfs that of Russia.
Trump got elected for a number of reasons, but most certainly one of them was a distinct lack of desire to have US money, materials, and its young men sent to other countries and cultures, especially when so many of those cultures bag the **** out the them.
Its doubtful whether Trump even cares whether Ukraine survives or not, but he does know that Russia is not going away , and you have to accommodate them.
Sometimes the realities of life just get in the way of ones wishes.
Mick
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What the U.S pays Ukraine? When everyone had to pay the U.S back for WW2?
Sounds very left wing, where everyone else pays for your decision, hows that working for Victoria?
JohnDe
La dolce vita
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Yeah, I received a package yesterday from Aussie Post, damaged as heck. Looks like someone jumped on it.
