Ukraine War

IFocus said:

Manoeuvre to add pressure on Putin with current so called peace talks?

Click to expand...

Sounds like there is a massive amount of manoeuvering going on in the media, it will be interesting to see what actually unfolds, rather than what the conflicting media sources say will unfold.

Now that The Trumpet has decided to side with Russia and the Evil Putrid, there is now the treble that can't be beaten, The Trumpet, Putrid and The Rocket Man.
I wonder just how long the American voters will put up with this idiot and his insane utterances.

reality on the ground

1 drone drop. The fragmentation is only 350 grams, but contains over 700 fragments that retain energy for more than 25 meters and have a continuous damage zone of 15 meters. After exploding a few meters from the enemy, it immediately knocks him off his feet.

...to be injured or bleed out.


(dropped on snowy terrain... this was Ukr. drone, but happening on both sides)

Taking/ regaining territory is costly

The text that Zelensky has to sign to get Trump’s support which has caused great consternation in Ukraine has been released.

Part of it reads:
The agreement covers the economic value associated with the resources of Ukraine including mineral resources, oil and gas resources, ports,other infrastructure as agreed.

This agreement shall be governed by New York law, without regard to conflict of law principles.

The US will take 50% of recurring revenues received by Ukraine for extraction of resources and 50% of all new licence's issue to third parties (in perpetuity).

Knobby22 said:

The text that Zelensky has to sign to get Trump’s support which has caused great consternation in Ukraine has been released.

Part of it reads:
The agreement covers the economic value associated with the resources of Ukraine including mineral resources, oil and gas resources, ports,other infrastructure as agreed.

This agreement shall be governed by New York law, without regard to conflict of law principles.

The US will take 50% of recurring revenues received by Ukraine for extraction of resources and 50% of all new licence's issue to third parties (in perpetuity).

Click to expand...

Trump doing what the neocons did militarily and with covert operations.
The difference is the money is going to the state rather than the private industry moguls.
Is that nationalism by another name??
Mick

mullokintyre said:

Trump doing what the neocons did militarily and with covert operations.
The difference is the money is going to the state rather than the private industry moguls.
Is that nationalism by another name??
Mick

Click to expand...

Reminds me of protection money from the Mafia.
If Australia got attacked by China what would we have to sign?

Knobby22 said:

Reminds me of protection money from the Mafia.
If Australia got attacked by China what would we have to sign?

Click to expand...

We would have sign away everything especially if that idiot The Trumpet was involved.

Knobby22 said:

The text that Zelensky has to sign to get Trump’s support which has caused great consternation in Ukraine has been released.

Part of it reads:
The agreement covers the economic value associated with the resources of Ukraine including mineral resources, oil and gas resources, ports,other infrastructure as agreed.

This agreement shall be governed by New York law, without regard to conflict of law principles.

The US will take 50% of recurring revenues received by Ukraine for extraction of resources and 50% of all new licence's issue to third parties (in perpetuity).

Click to expand...

Nobidy with a sane gain in the brain would sign something like this. Giving the aggressor and The trumpet everything to become a non existent State, WOW.

Knobby22 said:

The text that Zelensky has to sign to get Trump’s support which has caused great consternation in Ukraine has been released.

Part of it reads:
The agreement covers the economic value associated with the resources of Ukraine including mineral resources, oil and gas resources, ports,other infrastructure as agreed.

This agreement shall be governed by New York law, without regard to conflict of law principles.

The US will take 50% of recurring revenues received by Ukraine for extraction of resources and 50% of all new licence's issue to third parties (in perpetuity).

Click to expand...

Trump using Xi's belt and road playbook? We will help, but we want things in return.

21st century lend lease, with a more business and less charitable tone?

farmerge said:

Nobidy with a sane gain in the brain would sign something like this. Giving the aggressor and The trumpet everything to become a non existent State, WOW.

Click to expand...

There is always two ways of looking at things, subjectively or objectively.

As I said the U.S where a lot more charitable during WW2, when they supplied arms, food etc, to the U.K, Russia and China, even though Trump is a proverbial pain the butt why should the U.S keep supplying arms etc to countries for nothing? It all sounds nice to expect it but Trump has never said he is nice.

Similar to China's belt and road initiative, they supply infrastructure to third world countries and they expect access to their ports and resources and I doubt if they are supplying arms to Russia they do it for nothing.

With the Western countries, it has become an expectation that the U.S will fix everything if it goes pear shaped, it is a lot like our society in general really. Everyone expects everything to be for nothing, not saying it is right or wrong, it is just the way things appear to have developed.

By the way the U.K finished paying of the loan to the U.S for WW2 in 2006.

So did Russia at a steeply discounted rate apparently.

I'm not sure whether China paid off their debt or not.



A brief history:
The case of debts arising from World War II is somewhat less complicated. At this time only four countries, discussed below, owe the U.S. government debts of any size arising from World War II programs to aid our allies. Other countries have paid their debts in full.

The United Kingdom still has amounts outstanding from World War II and its immediate aftermath which it continues to repay on a regular basis. World War II-era claims on Iran have been incorporated into the claims being adjudicated by the Iran-U.S. Claims Tribunal, established after the 1979 Iranian revolution. Lend Lease claims against the former Soviet Union arising from World War II were settled in a 1972 agreement between the U.S. and U.S.S.R. In the 1972 agreement, the U.S.S.R. pledged to make three initial payments totaling $48 million and to repay the remaining Lend Lease debt once the United States had granted Most Favored Nations (MFN) trade status. The Soviet Union made the three initial downpayments, but because it did not obtain MFN status at that time -- because of conditions set forth in the 1974 Trade Act -- its obligation to make the remaining payments toward its Lend Lease debt was not triggered before the dissolution of the U.S.S.R. However, MFN status was extended to the Russian Federation in 1992, and accordingly, in 1993, Russia signed an agreement with the U.S. in which it acknowledged its liability and agreed to a repayment schedule for the former U.S.S.R.'s Lend Lease debt. Finally, the U.S. continues to work for a resolution with Taiwan of the issue of debts arising from World War II-era loans extended to China.

Just read this article and is sounds as though Ukraine and Trump are coming to an agreement.

Hopefully better terms and hopefully he fights back on the Putin demands a bit. Trump does have a strong hand. Russia would love normalcy again, their economy is in a bad way.

Knobby22 said:

Hopefully better terms and hopefully he fights back on the Putin demands a bit. Trump does have a strong hand. Russia would love normalcy again, their economy is in a bad way.

Click to expand...

That's exactly how it should be IMO, Ukraine are defending their sovereignty and have done an amazing job, but they will be under never ending threat from Russia unless they come to an agreement, Taiwan has the same situation with China.

In reality things can't always be sorted out by the U.S, or the U.K , or the EU taxpayer funding endless wars, the World needs to move on from that, as we become more of a global society.

How this all ends up is anyone's guess, but the World expecting U.S taxpayers to fund everyone's war isn't sustainable, especially now when the U.S is under financial attack as the reserve currency by China and Russia.

As I said before, it is only a recent expectation that the U.S would be everyone's free security company, but now for the U.S to have any fiscal credibility they need to actually have a sustainable monetary system.
Being the reserve currency and printing money, just ain't going to cut it anymore and China knows it, so the U.S needs to put fiscal responsibility in place whether the left like it not.
Printing money, to pay itself to make arms, to give to other countries actually isn't a productive economy.
I don't have any skin in the game with Ukraine, no family, friends etc, so I probably am being a bit objective, but the West is in a precarious position financially as China's manufacturing base grows, so does the underlying financial strength and stability of its currency.
Meanwhile the West lives on memories of its industrial past and prints money to support its affluent future, interesting times as we keep saying.



The United States has poured more than a hundred billion dollars into Ukraine's effort to repel Russia's invasion, spending far more than any other nation. But as President Volodymyr Zelensky comes to Washington to ask for more, there is growing Republican scepticism about funding the war effort.
In his Tuesday speech to the UN, Joe Biden made a passionate plea for the global community to not turn its back on Ukraine.

For more than a year and a half, the US president has followed up that tough talk with American dollars. The US Congress has now authorised more than $110bn (£89bn) in aid to Ukraine. That includes:

• $49.6bn in military assistance
• $28.5bn in economic support
• $13.2bn in humanitarian aid
• $18.4bn to boost US defence industry capacity

As of 9 August, the White House said it had spent 91% of the allocated funds. The administration is currently asking Congress for an additional $24bn in aid, including $14bn in military support.

sptrawler said:

That's exactly how it should be Ukraine are defending their sovereignty and have done an amazing job, but they will be under never ending threat from Russia unless they come to an agreement, Taiwan has the same situation with Taiwan.

In reality things can't always be sorted out by the U.S, or the U.K , or the EU taxpayer funding endless wars, the World needs to move on from that, as we become more of a global society.

How this all ends up is anyone's guess, but the World expecting U.S taxpayers to fund everyone's war isn't sustainable, especially now when the U.S is under financial attack as the reserve currency by China and Russia.

As I said before, it is only a recent expectation that the U.S would be everyone's free security company, but now for the U.S to have any fiscal credibility they need to actually have a sustainable monetary system.
Being the reserve currency and printing money, just ain't going to cut it anymore and China knows it, so the U.S needs to put fiscal responsibility in place whether the left like it not.
Printing money, to pay itself to make arms, to give to other countries actually isn't a productive economy.

Click to expand...

I'm not against some deal for security and Russia has demanded Ukraine not join NATO.

But this deal, if it happens, is more about entwining the US economy with Ukraine to stop Russia attacking it again when they have regrouped.

Plenty of other countries including us have sent help without expecting anything back.

It's not in the free worlds interests to let a dictator, friendly with China, to expand his empire, especially against a democracy.

sptrawler said:

That's exactly how it should be IMO, Ukraine are defending their sovereignty and have done an amazing job, but they will be under never ending threat from Russia unless they come to an agreement, Taiwan has the same situation with China.

In reality things can't always be sorted out by the U.S, or the U.K , or the EU taxpayer funding endless wars, the World needs to move on from that, as we become more of a global society.

How this all ends up is anyone's guess, but the World expecting U.S taxpayers to fund everyone's war isn't sustainable, especially now when the U.S is under financial attack as the reserve currency by China and Russia.

As I said before, it is only a recent expectation that the U.S would be everyone's free security company, but now for the U.S to have any fiscal credibility they need to actually have a sustainable monetary system.
Being the reserve currency and printing money, just ain't going to cut it anymore and China knows it, so the U.S needs to put fiscal responsibility in place whether the left like it not.
Printing money, to pay itself to make arms, to give to other countries actually isn't a productive economy.

Click to expand...

I think that Trump is negotiating, and he started high because like any sale price you can come down but you can’t go up.

And if the USA get part of the agreement to have some of their industries mining and processing with US citizens on the ground, Russia will be unlikely to invade again.

Knobby22 said:

I'm not against some deal for security and Russia has demanded Ukraine not join NATO.

But this deal, if it happens, is more about entwining the US economy with Ukraine to stop Russia attacking it again when they have regrouped.

Plenty of other countries including us have sent help without expecting anything back.

It's not in the free worlds interests to let a dictator, friendly with China, to expand his empire, especially against a democracy.

Click to expand...

There wont be a free world, if we keep on the same trajectory, that's what the benevolent left don't seem to grasp.

JohnDe said:

I think that Trump is negotiating, and he started high because like any sale price you can come down but you can’t go up.

And if the USA get part of the agreement to have some of their industries mining and processing with US citizens on the ground, Russia will be unlikely to invade again.

Click to expand...

Absolutely, the Ukraine has rare earth minerals and a hell of a lot of other natural resources.

Russia has a lot of raw materials and China is infiltrating into third world countries to exploit their natural resources, the U.S needs to actually be able to source from as many countries as possible before Russia /China tie them all up.

The multinationals don't care where the raw materials come from, or who owns them, as long as their manufactured product is cheap.

3 years


..

and 2 days prior

and, from. a columnist

Let the record show that Johnson, to his enormous credit, rushed thousands of anti-tank weapons to Ukraine, in the weeks leading up to invasion day on 24 February 2022.

Let the record also show that Germany, under Chancellor Olaf Scholz, shamefully, did not allow the Royal Air Force to use German airspace to deliver the weapons to Ukraine.

Click to expand...

.
In the weeks following, there was heroic resistance by ordinary Ukrainian civilians, as they faced the full might of the Russian army and a 65 kilometres long convoy of tanks and armoured vehicles.

Kyiv did not fall

Dona Ferentes said:

3 years


..

and 2 days prior

PM statement on the situation in Ukraine: 22 February 2022

Prime Minister Boris Johnson made a statement in the House of Commons on the situation in Ukraine.

www.gov.uk

and, from. a columnist

.
In the weeks following, there was heroic resistance by ordinary Ukrainian civilians, as they faced the full might of the Russian army and a 65 kilometres long convoy of tanks and armoured vehicles.

Kyiv did not fall

Click to expand...

But according to the madman of the US of A Ukraine is the aggressor in all of this.
I must have missed something 3 years ago.

farmerge said:

But according to the madman of the US of A Ukraine is the aggressor in all of this.
I must have missed something 3 years ago.

Click to expand...

Negotiating ploy.