Trading Psychology

On the subject of what I do;

1. I will provide anyone with any information they request concerning my ability to operate as a trading coach, if they contact me personally with regard to my coaching service via my website. All the questions that Tech/a and some others have asked have been asked before by previous clients and a few more besides.
2. I am not and have never claimed to be a psychologist.
3. I will not reply to any more comments about my business on this forum, please direct them to me personally via my website.

Back to the subject of trading psychology;

The reason I made the point about the lack of posts about psychology, is that I believe it is the most important part of not only trading but life in general.

Words mean different things to different people, but to me and to the dictionary; psychology is the study of mind and behaviour.

Trading psychology is the study of your mind and behaviour while trading. The subject is too vast to condense to one post. But in essence it is way we as traders process information, what we do with that information and why we do it.

Why is it 100% of trading?

Because everything else is just information.

We all have to process the information received by our 5 senses and we all interpret that information in different ways, based on our brain physiology and experience.

Someone will say one thing, maybe only one word and it will mean many different things to different people based on their personal experience alone.

If I mentioned the words trading plan, they will mean something very different to me, than they do to someone else.

So what about the huge amount information we have to process as traders?

This is why markets exist, no buyers without sellers, people interpreting the information and processing it differently.

For the record, I have never said a trading system is not required or hard work and study or correct money and risk management, they all essential to trading.

But just using the information that is being fed to you is not enough if your mind is processing it the wrong way.

I don’t believe there any mystic in this, it is not psycho babble.

It is merely being able to understand how our minds are programmed and how we can then change that programming to our benefit.

I did it through understanding, motivation and repeated behaviour.

If you believe trading psychology is just a big ruse to milk amateurs of money, then it proves my point.

We all interpret information in different ways, some of us in ways others could not imagine.

Steve Arthur said:

But just using the information that is being fed to you is not enough if your mind is processing it the wrong way.

I don’t believe there any mystic in this, it is not psycho babble.

It is merely being able to understand how our minds are programmed and how we can then change that programming to our benefit.

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You have made it psycho babble by in no way quantifying what you are talking about other than is the most vaguest of terms. Classic tactic of snake oilers and fools who have nothing of substance to say.

Personally I cannot believe you have stubbled in here to start a post about how ASF is greatly lacking, as per your claim, threads on the most important part of trading yet have nothing of structure or fact to offer.

Hardly a great example of thoughtful actions? What does that say about your ability to develop a plan for yourself let alone charge others!!

If this thread was a trade its already blown through your stop and taking out 52 week lows, your broker is calling you on both lines with a margin call while you're talking about the better div yield

But in essence it is way we as traders process information, what we do with that information and why we do it.

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This is all I see in the post related to the topic.

What you've said is simply how we process ANY decision.
As with most who have nothing to offer I note your subject of 100% necessity as a profitable trader --- wont place you under the scrutiny of ASIC.
There are many more like you who tout Astrology---Cycles----Gann.

Just saw T/H crossed.
There is nothing offered here of value and with the opportunity to redeem your self after your marketing blunder---pretty poor effort.

1. I will provide anyone with any information they request concerning my ability to operate as a trading coach, if they contact me personally with regard to my coaching service via my website. All the questions that Tech/a and some others have asked have been asked before by previous clients and a few more besides.

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As for this------------ pathetic.
If there was a plethora of yes's then you'd have supplied them---so Ill take that as a plethora of NO's.
If your going to talk the talk you had better be able to walk the walk.

I'm not new to this forum, but until recently I have never had a good look around it.

I have to say there are some very experienced and knowledgeable people on this forum and there is a wealth of information to be had.

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Id go back to lurking---you'll learn more.

Steve Arthur said:

On the subject of what I do;

1. I will provide anyone with any information they request concerning my ability to operate as a trading coach, if they contact me personally with regard to my coaching service via my website. All the questions that Tech/a and some others have asked have been asked before by previous clients and a few more besides.
2. I am not and have never claimed to be a psychologist.
3. I will not reply to any more comments about my business on this forum, please direct them to me personally via my website.

Click to expand...

I suppose they need to enclose a cheque as well.

Back to the subject of trading psychology;

The reason I made the point about the lack of posts about psychology, is that I believe it is the most important part of not only trading but life in general.

Words mean different things to different people, but to me and to the dictionary; psychology is the study of mind and behaviour.

Trading psychology is the study of your mind and behaviour while trading. The subject is too vast to condense to one post. But in essence it is way we as traders process information, what we do with that information and why we do it.

Why is it 100% of trading?

Because everything else is just information.

Click to expand...

Now watch for the contradiction.

We all have to process the information received by our 5 senses and we all interpret that information in different ways, based on our brain physiology and experience.

Someone will say one thing, maybe only one word and it will mean many different things to different people based on their personal experience alone.

If I mentioned the words trading plan, they will mean something very different to me, than they do to someone else.

So what about the huge amount information we have to process as traders?

This is why markets exist, no buyers without sellers, people interpreting the information and processing it differently.

For the record, I have never said a trading system is not required or hard work and study or correct money and risk management, they all essential to trading.

Click to expand...

And there it is.

But just using the information that is being fed to you is not enough if your mind is processing it the wrong way.

I don’t believe there any mystic in this, it is not psycho babble.

Click to expand...

Yes, imo it is babble.

It is merely being able to understand how our minds are programmed and how we can then change that programming to our benefit.

I did it through understanding, motivation and repeated behaviour.

If you believe trading psychology is just a big ruse to milk amateurs of money, then it proves my point.

Click to expand...

Actually, at this point in time, everyone watching the exchange of posts is waiting for you to make a valid point and respond to the points raised.

We all interpret information in different ways, some of us in ways others could not imagine.

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If it wasn't scary, it would be the funniest statement I've heard in years. Except that it is a repition of ...

We all have to process the information received by our 5 senses and we all interpret that information in different ways, based on our brain physiology and experience.

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...repitition, reinforcement and totally without substance.

It has been a quiet day, and the exchange has been interesting but imo it really is time the moderators stepped in and gave this self promoting thread the treatment it warrants.

nulla nulla said:

imo it really is time the moderators stepped in and gave this self promoting thread the treatment it warrants.

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I think you guys have pretty much done it for us anyway.

For a future note, people posting on ASF should be aware that any service/product may come under scrutiny, and that is not at the hands of mods/admin it is simply members asking their own questions. Mods/admin will only step in if the thread gets abusive etc

SmellyTerror said:

To teach trading, you'd have to show you can trade. To teach psychology you only need to be able to talk out of your ****.

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I read somewhere that a persons mental patterning is rigid and difficult to change after a certain number of years. Like one can "lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" sort of thing. Supple minds (good name for a band?) are far and few between. The "pattern" of success is 'very' obviously not transferable at any price.

prawn_86 said:

I think you guys have pretty much done it for us anyway.

For a future note, people posting on ASF should be aware that any service/product may come under scrutiny, and that is not at the hands of mods/admin it is simply members asking their own questions. Mods/admin will only step in if the thread gets abusive etc

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Thanks for that, Prawn. I'd be sorry to see the discussion cut off.
Anything which exposes pure salesmanship for what it is is worth retaining imo.

Hi everyone,

I was not expecting to make my first post in a thread with this type of topic but i could not help it, i have never traded but i am very keen to learn about trading, what it involves, the tools, the brokers, the methods that are public, put simply i am sponging knowledge from where ever i can get it BUT......

if anyone else here is new or old to trading my do the hard yards yourself, this is not my psychological state talking its my experience, my experience dictates to me that if i want to undertake anything seriously or need anything serious done i am much better of doing it myself, if someone wants to share their experiences with me and i can take something from that then i thank you very much for it and would offer a "trade" of my own experience with them, if i believe it will aid someone then i would simply leave some type of information here and let the thread begin and may the knowledge flow.

so with that being said...

Steve if you are not prepared to finish what you started here please leave or better yet go away, you do not need to reply to this either its simply a request and the only thing i expect if you disagree is not to reply.

you are marketing yourself and asking people to go to your website before you share any knowledge yet this forum from what i have seen has been all about sharing knowledge or experience so by the power of deduction you sir are a salesperson not a trader to begin with, this in itself is not a good starting position and would consider it a major swing signal but i doubt you take shorts.

Steve, i want to give you some advise (free of charge) it does not matter what you do to make a living as long as you a prepared to work hard for it and to do it well, this is true for anything whether you want to be a politician aspiring to become prime minister or a thief wanting to rob a bank, there are risks to everything just a matter of what you are prepared to risk. and I am not prepared to risk my money on you based on the above. and hope that no one else does either. you need to find something that you have talent for and this is not your area of expertise by far.

for everyone else who may have wanted some psychology but may not necessarily be beneficial to your trading the only thing i can say is this.

"there will always be someone better off than you and someone worse off than you"

Beaver

Welcome to ASF Beaverdog

Steve Arthur said:

In his book super trader Van Tharp talks about a workshop he did 1990, with Market wizards Ed Seykota and Tom Basso.

"All 3 of them agreed that psychology contributes to 60% to success, position sizing 30% and system development 10%. And that most traders ignore the first 2 and don’t really have a system anyway, that’s why 90% fail".

19 years later, he argues that psychology now counts for 100% of trading success and I for one agree with him.

So why aren’t there more threads on psychology?

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Even newer research (by myself) has concluded that a different factor is the most important to any trader.

Forget about systems, money management or psychology. My research has shown that breathing is 100% responsible for successful trading.

Does George Soros hold his breath when he takes a position? If you have ever watched Larry Williams trade live, you will notice that he breathes in air CONTINUOUSLY. Not for a moment did he stop breathing. He would not stop when he was looking at his charts, placing orders or setting stops - because these activities are all secondary to breathing.

Breathing is the most important factor in trading. Without air coming into your lungs, you will die in a matter of minutes. You will not be able to develop trading systems, execute the plan or will yourself to victory. Dead traders will never be successful traders.

So send me $6K now and I will teach you how to breath your way to trading success.

(Next week, I will show you why your ability to click your mouse accurately is THE MOST IMPORTANT factor to trading successfully).

Steve Arthur said:

What gives you the right to be so rude and judgemental?

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His keyboard and his internet connection. There are plenty like him out there, and even more out there who will judge more harshly and be even more rude. You're on the internet, it's probably a good idea to get used to the idea

skc said:

Even newer research (by myself) has concluded that a different factor is the most important to any trader.

Forget about systems, money management or psychology. My research has shown that breathing is 100% responsible for successful trading.

Does George Soros hold his breath when he takes a position? If you have ever watched Larry Williams trade live, you will notice that he breathes in air CONTINUOUSLY. Not for a moment did he stop breathing. He would not stop when he was looking at his charts, placing orders or setting stops - because these activities are all secondary to breathing.

Breathing is the most important factor in trading. Without air coming into your lungs, you will die in a matter of minutes. You will not be able to develop trading systems, execute the plan or will yourself to victory. Dead traders will never be successful traders.

So send me $6K now and I will teach you how to breath your way to trading success.

(Next week, I will show you why your ability to click your mouse accurately is THE MOST IMPORTANT factor to trading successfully).

Click to expand...

Brilliant post, well said

if anyone else here is new or old to trading my do the hard yards yourself, this is not my psychological state talking its my experience, my experience dictates to me that if i want to undertake anything seriously or need anything serious done i am much better of doing it myself, if someone wants to share their experiences with me and i can take something from that then i thank you very much for it and would offer a "trade" of my own experience with them, if i believe it will aid someone then i would simply leave some type of information here and let the thread begin and may the knowledge flow.

Click to expand...

I think we have to do the yards to gain understanding.
If we dont wish to then we engage an expert to conduct business for us.
We cannot be experts at everything---proficiency and expertise are wide apart. Finding a mentor is a quick way to learn most things provided the mentor is bonefide in the area we are persuing.

I search out people who are successes in their field.
One snippet can be a gem of wisdom when applied.
The best knowledge I have gained is from listening to those who freely share.

George is breathing easily and continuously today because he is holding no long positions. I may have been tempted on RIA early today but George always makes money on his trades and he said "no" quite firmly.

George doesn't sit around on days like this waiting for something to happen when he already knows it won't. He will take a look at IFN later in the day, if it closes in the high 70's. He is attracted by the head and shoulders set up and noted that the neckline was touched earlier today.

Unreal.

Glad no one taking this thread seriously.

Here's some fantastic quotes from Ed Seykota on the psychology of trading.

Our work is not so much to treat or to cure feelings, as to accept and celebrate them. This is a critical difference.
Fundamentalists figure things out and anticipate change. Trend followers join the trend of the moment. Fundamentalists try to solve their feelings. Trend followers join their feelings and observe them evolve and dis-solve.
The feelings we accept and enjoy rarely interfere with trading.
Trying to treat or cure feelings adds mass.


Have a deep belief in the inevitability of your success.


The feelings you don’t like don’t pass through. Feelings you do like pass through. To get feelings to flow through, and not interfere with your trading, learn to like them. Part of that comes from experience, part with identifying their positive intentions.


It’s all about sticking to your plan and experiencing feelings as they arise. If you are unwilling to feel your feelings, the temptation is to avoid them by jumping off your system.


Children seem open to feel whatever they feel. Their moods change from moment to moment as they keep experiencing their feelings. As we mature, we learn to contain our feelings.


Embracing the moment, celebrating the pain, and finding the positive intention, tends to transform pain into wisdom. Trying to avoid the bad stuff only tends to institutionalize it, and miss it’s positive intention.

Gringos Bank said:

Here's some fantastic quotes from Ed Skat on the psychology of trading.

Our work is not so much to treat or to cure feelings, as to accept and celebrate them. This is a critical difference.
Fundamentalists figure things out and anticipate change. Trend followers join the trend of the moment. Fundamentalists try to solve their feelings. Trend followers join their feelings and observe them evolve and dis-solve.
The feelings we accept and enjoy rarely interfere with trading.
Trying to treat or cure feelings adds mass.


Have a deep belief in the inevitability of your success.


The feelings you don’t like don’t pass through. Feelings you do like pass through. To get feelings to flow through, and not interfere with your trading, learn to like them. Part of that comes from experience, part with identifying their positive intentions.


It’s all about sticking to your plan and experiencing feelings as they arise. If you are unwilling to feel your feelings, the temptation is to avoid them by jumping off your system.


Children seem open to feel whatever they feel. Their moods change from moment to moment as they keep experiencing their feelings. As we mature, we learn to contain our feelings.


Embracing the moment, celebrating the pain, and finding the positive intention, tends to transform pain into wisdom. Trying to avoid the bad stuff only tends to institutionalize it, and miss it’s positive intention.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't just covered Steve's Course!!
I'm sure I could drag that out(The above) for a few hrs of Mystic mumbo!

Ever noticed that the Philosophical/Psychologically crippled types love mumbo---they thrive on it!

GB, did you post that stuff as a laugh, or do you actually believe it's fantastic?

I'm not trying to be critical, but I honestly HONESTLY cannot understand what you or anyone else could be getting out of that stuff. It's like one of those bloody seeing-eye books, where most people squint at it for a minute and see the Taj Mahal, but some of us just see a migraine.

I'm just seeing a word-salad.

It’s all about sticking to your plan and experiencing feelings as they arise. If you are unwilling to feel your feelings, the temptation is to avoid them by jumping off your system.

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How is that different to saying: "When you're trading you'll feel like you're trading"?

Seriously? You need someone to tell you that?

Here's my "psychology":

• When I get a really good trade, I smile a bit. I might say a soft "woohoo". When I get a crap trade I might go as far as a wince.
  
• If I'm having a really good patch, I might fantasize about quitting my day job. When I'm having a really bad patch I might re-count the days until I'm on leave.
  
• When I have a ripper of a day I'll trade as hard as I can. When I hit my stops in the first hour, I spend the rest of the day going over old trades or simming a new idea. Bad days are what make me better.
  
• Sometimes when the price stalls and I want it to go up, I kinda raise my eyebrows and try to use psychic powers to make it go up, even though I know that's dopey.

But overall I keep trading because it's challenging, it's fun, and I make money.

So there you go. PM me for my Pay-Pal details if you think paying for a dumbo-feather makes it work better.

skc said:

Breathing is the most important factor in trading. Without air coming into your lungs, you will die in a matter of minutes. You will not be able to develop trading systems, execute the plan or will yourself to victory. Dead traders will never be successful traders.

So send me $6K now and I will teach you how to breath your way to trading success.

(Next week, I will show you why your ability to click your mouse accurately is THE MOST IMPORTANT factor to trading successfully).

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that's gold right there !

Gringotts Bank said:

Here's some fantastic quotes from Ed Seykota on the psychology of trading.

Our work is not so much to treat or to cure feelings, as to accept and celebrate them. This is a critical difference.
Fundamentalists figure things out and anticipate change. Trend followers join the trend of the moment. Fundamentalists try to solve their feelings. Trend followers join their feelings and observe them evolve and dis-solve.
The feelings we accept and enjoy rarely interfere with trading.
Trying to treat or cure feelings adds mass.


Have a deep belief in the inevitability of your success.


The feelings you don’t like don’t pass through. Feelings you do like pass through. To get feelings to flow through, and not interfere with your trading, learn to like them. Part of that comes from experience, part with identifying their positive intentions.


It’s all about sticking to your plan and experiencing feelings as they arise. If you are unwilling to feel your feelings, the temptation is to avoid them by jumping off your system.


Children seem open to feel whatever they feel. Their moods change from moment to moment as they keep experiencing their feelings. As we mature, we learn to contain our feelings.


Embracing the moment, celebrating the pain, and finding the positive intention, tends to transform pain into wisdom. Trying to avoid the bad stuff only tends to institutionalize it, and miss it’s positive intention.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a party I went to in the 60's or 70's, not quite sure of the date. Could be still going for all I know. Hey man....what was the question again?

nulla nulla said:

Sounds like a party I went to in the 60's or 70's, not quite sure of the date. Could be still going for all I know. Hey man....what was the question again?

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:kiffer::bong: