Trading psychology

[Trembling Hand]

I don't think you'll get anything useful out of Mr Angry. By the way this thread is about trading psychology, which the broader trading community recognizes as the most important aspect of trading.

You got any empirical proof on the "most important" claim. Cuz the real traders I know wouldn't claim it as the most. I know you do but you cannot trade by your own admissions. So if you cannot show prove of a claim and cannot back it up with your own practical application then where does that leave your psycho babble other than just regurgitated trader education speel you have read in books aimed at skimming strugling traders

- - - Updated - - -

TH , with the HSI futs you trade , would it be fair to say that you have a smaller rather than a large number of patterns, and also do they typically stop working or just stop occuring after a while. I am guessing that there will be a number of patterns specific only to the HSI futs and maybe some that come up on other markets to?? Obviously i know your answer will be from your experince only and others may see a pattern that you dont see/use etc.

Might start another thread in relation to this as I was also meaning to get back to Tech on my claim that futs don't act like EOD stocks, bit busy at the mo tho. Sunny day and all.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali

TH, do you beat people up too? Or that's just to maintain the mean image you have going on?

"Market Wizards" is a book you should read. It investigates the World's top hedge fund traders, and guess what? Good psychology was the most reliable indicator of success.

 

[tech/a]

I don't think you'll get anything useful out of Mr Angry. By the way this thread is about trading psychology, which the broader trading community recognizes as the most important aspect of trading.

Broader Trading Community

Read---

(1) Give me your money and I'll get you in the right mind set.
(2) I have no idea how to trade I need a " reason " why!
(3) I have no idea how to take advantage of opportunity --- it's obviously psychological.
(4) I need a reason for failure.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Broader Trading Community

Read---

(1) Give me your money and I'll get you in the right mind set.
(2) I have no idea how to trade I need a " reason " why!
(3) I have no idea how to take advantage of opportunity --- it's obviously psychological.
(4) I need a reason for failure.

I think you're like TH, tech. You just like a bit of an argument. Anyone whose trading research extends outside ASF knows psychology of trading is of utmost importance. Your mentor Nick Radge would disagree quite strongly with you, but I'm sure you will have a very good come back for that. You always do.

For anyone else reading (whose universe extends outside of ASF), you might like to Google "Radge and trading psychology". Just one of thousands of professionals who know what's what.

How boring you guys are. Seriously.

 

[skyQuake]

Mate you just don't get it do you?

Its methodology and technique that leads to confidence. Not the other way around.
I completely agree that good psychology can amplify gains, and bad psychology can do the reverse; but these are just multipliers on the actual system itself.

If you have a crap system you'll lose money no matter how much positive thinking you do. Eg.Stoch indicators in a roaring bull/bear market.

If you have an awesome system you'll make money no matter how much of an emotional wreck you are. Eg. Inside trading.

Also, read market wizards again. All those guys had confidence, BECAUSE of their proven methodology, which they stuck to and rewarded them for it.

 

[tech/a]

I think you're like TH, tech. You just like a bit of an argument. Anyone whose trading research extends outside ASF knows psychology of trading is of utmost importance. Your mentor Nick Radge would disagree quite strongly with you, but I'm sure you will have a very good come back for that. You always do.

For anyone else reading (whose universe extends outside of ASF), you might like to Google "Radge and trading psychology". Just one of thousands of professionals who know what's what.

How boring you guys are. Seriously.

Yep

The answer is simple.
Those who are successful traders
have the correct Psychology---just as those who are successful in business do.

You and others like you----don't and as such are constantly searching for that psychological missing link.

You either have it or you don't.
Frankly I don't think it can be taught or researched/argued into existence.

 

[CanOz]

Nick is very rules based and systematic....the psychology is centered around believing that things will turn out according to the statistically proven results, based on a robust method....

Once you have the stats, back-tested and walked forward (in summary here) you should have the confidence to trade it live.

The confidence comes from results, stats...number one yeah?



As an edit, the hardest part to take is when you apply the same thing over and over and there is a period where things don't go as "normal", then you ask yourself "is this just a "normal" abnormality or is it broken? Those that can keep trading through this have the confidence that sh*t happens and you've got to think next 1000 trades....

 

[pavilion103]

Nick is very rules based and systematic....the psychology is centered around believing that things will turn out according to the statistically proven results, based on a robust method....

Once you have the stats, back-tested and walked forward (in summary here) you should have the confidence to trade it live.

The confidence comes from results, stats...number one yeah?



As an edit, the hardest part to take is when you apply the same thing over and over and there is a period where things don't go as "normal", then you ask yourself "is this just a "normal" abnormality or is it broken? Those that can keep trading through this have the confidence that sh*t happens and you've got to think next 1000 trades....

+1.

Seems obvious enough doesn't it?

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Also, read market wizards again. All those guys had confidence, BECAUSE of their proven methodology, which they stuck to and rewarded them for it.

OMG, you think any simple minded twit doesn't understand that basic concept? That's like grade 2 understanding. I passed that stage 10 years ago.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Yep

The answer is simple.
Those who are successful traders
have the correct Psychology---just as those who are successful in business do.

Two bankruptcies??!! I'd be embarrassed to even comment on this forum if I was you.

Oh that's right, it was the interest rates! Blame the banks.

 

[Boggo]

Two bankruptcies??!! I'd be embarrassed to even comment on this forum if I was you.

Oh that's right, it was the interest rates! Blame the banks.

One of my mate's father went down to the wire twice. On two occasions he came home and started packing up the house as the banks were about to move in.
He eventually went on to retire a multimillionaire before he was sixty and still commutes between his house in Adelaide and his yacht and house on Hamilton Island.

Some of the notables that have gone bust and restarted are Abraham Lincoln, Henry Ford, Walt Disney and HJ Heinz.

You seem to enjoy crapping on just about everything GB, you obviously have a reason ?
Reminds me a bit of a fruitbat, what they can't eat they **** on so nobody else will eat it

 

[Gringotts Bank]

One of my mate's father went down to the wire twice. On two occasions he came home and started packing up the house as the banks were about to move in.
He eventually went on to retire a multimillionaire before he was sixty and still commutes between his house in Adelaide and his yacht and house on Hamilton Island.

Some of the notables that have gone bust and restarted are Abraham Lincoln, Henry Ford, Walt Disney and HJ Heinz.

You seem to enjoy crapping on just about everything GB, you obviously have a reason ?
Reminds me a bit of a fruitbat, what they can't eat they **** on so nobody else will eat it

Ho hum. Another idiot.

Here's techa's teacher, Nick Radge:

"The most important part of investing and trading is psychology. Investing is a constant struggle where the battleground is not the market or advice given but comes from within you".

But why stop at Radge? All the top traders know it. I'm surprised you haven't done any research outside of ASF.

 

[skyQuake]

OMG, you think any simple minded twit doesn't understand that basic concept?

It seems like you dont

"Market Wizards" is a book you should read. It investigates the World's top hedge fund traders, and guess what? Good psychology was the most reliable indicator of success.

That's like grade 2 understanding. I passed that stage 10 years ago.

That puts you at 17-18?

Explains a lot.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

It seems like you dont




That puts you at 17-18?

Explains a lot.

Ho hum. Another 2nd grader.

If guys like techa and TH are your idols, you also need to look outside of ASF to see what the top guys are doing, and how.

 

[skyQuake]

Ho hum. Another 2nd grader.

If guys like techa and TH are your idols, you also need to look outside of ASF to see what the top guys are doing, and how.

Thats funny cause I am one of the top guys and interact with similar minds daily. techa and THs style are very different to mine yet still successful which makes it so interesting.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Thats funny cause I am one of the top guys and interact with similar minds daily. techa and THs style are very different to mine yet still successful which makes it so interesting.

That means absolutely nothing. If you made 500%pa for 10 years running, it would mean absolutely nothing. This thread is not about performance, it's about how to achieve it. In other words, I know more about successful traders than they know about themselves. I know how they became successful... they don't. They think they know, but they don't have a clue.

I understand the mind and the nature of reality on a level that is so far beyond what most people are capable of comprehending, it actually makes it hard to communicate. I have to dumb things down to a level that is digestible, and in doing so, meaning is lost.

And yet you will still make it about performance. You all badly want to know how much I'm making. I'm up 19% for the FY... and that means absolutely nothing.

 

[skyQuake]

That means absolutely nothing. If you made 500%pa for 10 years running, it would mean absolutely nothing. This thread is not about performance, it's about how to achieve it.

It means I am in the industry and have a clue to whats going on.
Everyone has repeatedly told you its about methodology. Find an edge, manage your risk, (optional: find another edge) pick colour of Ferrari.
That's all there is to it
Psychology helps to keep to the plan. Having good psychology by itself won't get u there.

In other words, I know more about successful traders than they know about themselves. I know how they became successful... they don't. They think they know, but they don't have a clue.

I understand the mind and the nature of reality on a level that is so far beyond what most people are capable of comprehending, it actually makes it hard to communicate. I have to dumb things down to a level that is digestible, and in doing so, meaning is lost.

And yet you will still make it about performance. You all badly want to know how much I'm making. I'm up 19% for the FY... and that means absolutely nothing.

By all means, make yourself a successful trader then.
I expect a shoutout to us from the BRW young richlist in a few years.

 

[PinguPingu]

My main problem comes down to almost always cutting profits short and letting losses run - damn you loss aversion! Break even stops have helped a bit, but I still seem to have problems of letting profits run because of fearing the loss of open profits I presently have.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

My main problem comes down to almost always cutting profits short and letting losses run - damn you loss aversion! Break even stops have helped a bit, but I still seem to have problems of letting profits run because of fearing the loss of open profits I presently have.

Adding a time frame will help with this. A recent trade I did with AGO had an expectation of at least 1R return in 1-3 days (not that I'd sell at 1R, but it forms a land mark). If that is not met, and depending on the trading activity, I simply pull the plug and forget about waiting for my stop to be hit. If after 2 days I'm reasonably well above break-even but not at 1R, then I will probably continue to wait a while longer. But my 2R target should be met in about 5 days. If not I will probably sell. Time makes a big difference. Traders don't like to wait, and if they are forced to wait, they will sell and push the price down.

This is what I'd call an example of using trading technique to improve psychology. Most people do this in some form or another. Psychology can also be addressed independently of trading technique, and that's the basis of most of my posts on this thread..

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Here's one possible example of a non-trading technique which can be used to improve trading psychology. Good quality instruction on witnessing meditation. I don't do the labeling part because I find that cumbersome, but it still does what I want.

http://www.swamij.com/witnessing.htm