Trading/Daytrading for a living

[Julia]

So who here actually trades for a living, as in sole income is from trading? Doesn't matter about definitions or meanings or if you want to or not, just who here does successfully(profitable more often than not), as in doesn't need to go back to their job next week. On whatever instrument(stocks, options, CFDs, futs).

Am interested to know how many, if any.

Are you differentiating between 'trading' and generating a living from one's capital?
ie what determines 'trading'? The frequency?

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Are you differentiating between 'trading' and generating a living from one's capital?
ie what determines 'trading'? The frequency?

I mean trading for a living, I don't see how you could invest for a living as you wouldn't reap the rewards until you close the position so what do you do in the mean time? So frequency would be day-trading to maybe weekly trades if you could pull it off.

That being said there's no reason why you couldn't day/week trade and still have a bigger trade in play as well, if you have the capital.

Minwa, it's 4am at the moment and I may not be thinking too straight but what is OPM?

 

[captain black]

So you coded up things like candlestick patterns or more stuff like "if it gaps down then most times the gap will close" type stuff, overall market movement patterns?

"OPM" is "other people's money".

I've done much the same as Bulkowski has done, only using Amibroker and focussed more on quantitative analysis of VSA "patterns" for day trading index futures than traditional technical analysis. His site is:

http://thepatternsite.com/

Howard Bandy's books are worth a read if you're looking at trading system development.

 

[Julia]

I mean trading for a living, I don't see how you could invest for a living as you wouldn't reap the rewards until you close the position so what do you do in the mean time?

You take a very limited view. If you choose companies with good growth potential and equally good grossed up yield, sit with them as long as an uptrend continues, exit if it reverses, it's extremely possible for the combination of capital gain and yield to provide a very comfortable living.

I can think of at least three people here, probably four who do this, have no other significant source of income, and are adding considerably to their capital each year, after pulling out whatever they need to live on.

 

[skc]

Very nice, so how did you get into pairs trading? Didn't realise it would be that big of a chunk of your main profits, you seem to do it well from what I've seen though, you ever thought about spreading futures? I imagine you would pick it up pretty quick!

I got into pairs trading by reading this stock forum. It's a good market neutral strategy and works better in more volatile times. However, it is not ideal for a retail trader as you pay more commission (as each trade has 2 legs) and require more capital to hold the positions. With CFD you can day trade equities pretty "capital lite". But not with pairs.

I have never investigated spreading futures.... I literally don't get it.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

You take a very limited view. If you choose companies with good growth potential and equally good grossed up yield, sit with them as long as an uptrend continues, exit if it reverses, it's extremely possible for the combination of capital gain and yield to provide a very comfortable living.

I can think of at least three people here, probably four who do this, have no other significant source of income, and are adding considerably to their capital each year, after pulling out whatever they need to live on.

Not limited, just didn't really understand how it was possible, with money needed to live day to day with the likes of food, fuel, bills so on and so forth, I assumed people who traded as their sole income would be exiting at EOD or end of week, to pay for living.

I would think you'd need a rather large account to do what you're mentioning, but that's excellent if there are people that do it, would like to know more about how they achieve that

 

[skyQuake]

Hi Sam, I trade prop as SKC mentioned, with some PA punting on the side.

I trade ADRs and Flow related events, with a little bit of misc arb when they pop up in the Aus mkts. Stress is fairly low as my trades are relatively systematic and timeframes a few hrs/days as opposed to a few seconds. Its the same trades day in day out. Index flow stuff can be a bit exciting though as it only happens every quarter.

 

[Julia]

Not limited, just didn't really understand how it was possible, with money needed to live day to day with the likes of food, fuel, bills so on and so forth, I assumed people who traded as their sole income would be exiting at EOD or end of week, to pay for living.

I would think you'd need a rather large account to do what you're mentioning, but that's excellent if there are people that do it, would like to know more about how they achieve that

Will send PM, Sam.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Hi Sam, I trade prop as SKC mentioned, with some PA punting on the side.

I trade ADRs and Flow related events, with a little bit of misc arb when they pop up in the Aus mkts. Stress is fairly low as my trades are relatively systematic and timeframes a few hrs/days as opposed to a few seconds. Its the same trades day in day out. Index flow stuff can be a bit exciting though as it only happens every quarter.

ADRs and Flow related events, with some misc arb? I've heard all these terms before but never really understood what's involved, could you elaborate on what it actually involves, in a PM if you want(or here, not fussed)

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Will send PM, Sam.

Can't reply Julia, your inbox is too full says ASF.



So less than 10 it is, that trade as a sole income, interesting stuff Thanks all who replied

 

[tech/a]

Sam
If your trading the DAX you know what's possible on a few contracts and that means a smallish capital base---just the margin.
Share trading for a living is harder and more capital intensive.Day trading stocks is not really practical in AUS but if you had moderate capital--say 200k---could be done in more liquid larger markets like the US.

Some of us don't want to trade for a living and don't have to trade for a living---yet our returns from trading or investing would keep a sole trader comfortable in his surroundings.

For people like yourself it's important to know what's possible and have a goal to perhaps work toward.
But I think also important to know that someone's part time interest can also be someone's full time employment.
Your young----there will be many opportunities in life.
There maybe a few that trade full time but there is an important batch of us who could but wouldn't.
In my case would bore me to tears.---the work and the lack of social interaction---the negotiation developing and creation of business opportunity and maintaining it is a passion of which trading and investiing is only a portion of the big picture.

Good luck and if you need a hand you know where to find me.

 

[nulla nulla]

There is another thread on the same topic where people, that trade full time, have posted who may not have posted on this thread.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17879&page=8&p=835650#post835650

I think you'll find that there are more than 10 forum members that live off the proceeds of their trading, whether through choice or necessity. There are probably more members that live off trading but choose to keep it to themselves.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Oh and fellas, remember the yard needs to be kept. That being lawn mowed, weeds pulled and rubbish removed. Then there is the laundry and the dishes and the floor cleaning. Remember the ironing and pick up the groceries. While you're out fuel up the car too.

 

[Julia]

Can't reply Julia, your inbox is too full says ASF.

Sorry. Cleared now.

I think you'll find that there are more than 10 forum members that live off the proceeds of their trading, whether through choice or necessity. There are probably more members that live off trading but choose to keep it to themselves.

+1.
Wysiwyg: you don't have to sit at a screen all day to make a decent living.

 

[captain black]

you don't have to sit at a screen all day to make a decent living.

+1
Like most things in life it's what you want to make of it or get out of it. For me it's always been about freedom, there's times I'm happy to sit at a screen and day trade, other times I'll just let my daily systems do their job and spend the day out in the kayak

 

[AussieMatt]

For me it's always been about freedom,

Same for me. I value my freedom/independence most and trading suits it perfectly. In terms of stress,
I do need to pay the bills but I actually find that less stressful than working my old corporate job because its something worthy instead of being stressed out over an issue with someone else's company

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Thanks for the replies all, all points granted and agreed with

My main goal in asking this was finding out if it's actually possible, I get that obviously it is, but it seems people have success for a period, not sustained. I just don't want to get confused between "Yes it's actually possible" and being suckered in because of the freedom it possibly can provide, and having tasted a little of the success before. i.e - a gambler mindset where realistically over the long run you'll probably blow up but in our heads we have the "yeah but what if....I'm one of the supposed 5%", you know like where is the line drawn, I don't want to waste years of my life chasing a goal that isn't possible.

Don't get me wrong, I love trading and would love to be an ace at it, and am trying, but the question must be asked, hence why I thought I'd find out how many people have an income solely from trading(doesn't matter if it's day trading or swing/position etc.).

We see plenty of traders that have great periods of profitability, but is it sustained, can they keep it going for years, or just a good patch they happen to post about on a forum then they blow up. The odds aren't exactly in our favour

I want nothing more than to be a sustained profitable trader, just don't want to be kidding myself and chase a mirage. So it's good to see/hear other's that are achieving what I want.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Wysiwyg: you don't have to sit at a screen all day to make a decent living.

Yes Julia. I have tried and failed more often than not to trade the shorter time frames. Lack discipline and concentration mainly. I need to be rigidly mechanical. EOD trading is my go.

 

[Julia]

W, I didn't suggest shorter time frames.
If anything, I'd suggest substantially longer time frames, simply sticking with an uptrend until it reverses.
Probably too simple an approach to appeal to many here.

 

[Greenscreen]

Hi.

I've been having some success day trading. My problem is that when I look back at the day I have missed x number of companies that took off without me noticing.

Can anybody suggest a way of identifying day trading opportunities that come out of the blue ie breakouts on volume.

Often I look at news releases, but even that is hit and miss ie. I'm looking at one company but another is moving.

Can anybody recommend any software to pick up the movers as close to breakout time as possible? - I've been trading 5 minute charts.

Thanks