Trading: Art or Science?

[boofis]

"The reason most traders fail is that they never enter a path of expertise development. It is rare to find training programs of any quality and substance at proprietary trading firms; one finds mentorship at investment banks and some hedge funds, but this is very hit or miss depending upon the commitment of the mentor and his/her skill in imparting skills and structuring a learning process. The independent trader has even fewer resources to generate and sustain an accelerated learning curve. There is much more to acquiring expertise than keeping a journal and trying to follow a simple plan."

Just wanted to keep this going. I just reread Steenbargers Enhancing Trader Performance over the weekend and wanted others experiences regarding the things they've done that have kept them on an accelerated learning curve.
Some of the things suggested conceptually, and not specifically about trading, are things I find pretty difficult to try and put into a practical trading context.

 

[tech/a]

I think it is neither Art nor Science.

Although there are many who are intent on making trading as complex as ever to extract as much as they can from those looking for the magic solution.
I think its purely a business.

Its as simple as making a profit.
but as complex as making a profit.

Over 70% of businesses fail in the first few years.
Many just supply their owners with a wage and a few
go on to create wealth beyond belief.

Trading is no different to---.
Engineering
Chemist
Grocer
Earthworker
Concretor
Printer---etc etc.

All have to make a profit to succeed.
Some are better than others.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Trading is no different to---.
Engineering
Chemist
Grocer
Earthworker
Concretor
Printer---etc etc.

All have to make a profit to succeed.
Some are better than others.

But why?

 

[tech/a]

But why?

They are better businessmen.

From recognising opportuntity to
being able to know what to do with that opportunity
to Actually doing something!

They do the Business of Business better.

 

[Trembling Hand]

They are better businessmen.

From recognising opportuntity to
being able to know what to do with that opportunity
to Actually doing something!

They do the Business of Business better.

Don't really agree with that. Trading is one simple skill. Business is many.

 

[CanOz]

Don't really agree with that. Trading is one simple skill. Business is many.

You can't break down your trading into more than one skill?

 

[tech/a]

Don't really agree with that. Trading is one simple skill. Business is many.

Business is one simple skill.

Complexity comes from design
Not necessity.

 

[skc]

Don't really agree with that. Trading is one simple skill. Business is many.

Trading is the simplest business in the world. Not easy. But simple. You identify favourable reward / risk situations, punch in the calculator to see who many shares to buy/sell, then click your mouse. The only one skill you need is to be analytical - be it fundamental, system design, seeing patterns in charts or reading tealeaves.

Any undertaking that doesn't involve dealing with people, and/or relying on them to your success, is some orders of magnitude simpler than those that do involve other people (like most businesses - suppliers, customers, regulators, bosses, employees, contractors, other stakeholders etc etc).

 

[waza1960]

Trading is the simplest business in the world. Not easy. But simple. You identify favour reward / risk situations, punch in the calculator to see who many shares to buy/sell, then click your mouse. The only one skill you need is to be analytical - be it fundamental, system design, seeing patterns in charts or reading tealeaves.

Any undertaking that doesn't involve dealing with people, and/or relying on them to your success, is some orders of magnitude simpler than those that do involve other people (like most businesses - suppliers, customers, regulators, bosses, employees, contractors, other stakeholders etc etc).

+1

 

[tech/a]

Business is one simple skill.

Complexity comes from design
Not necessity.

Find a product or service with a sustained market and provide it.
Simple?
Ask Bill Gates.

 

[waza1960]

Ask Bill Gates.

Actually Bill Gates had timing on his side and a serious misjudgement by his competitors.
IBM came to him in 1980 to design an operating system for their new computer IBM PC.
He turned them away and recommended a competitor.
After the competitor failed to come to terms with IBM they came back to Bill Gates
and as they say the rest is history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates

 

[Trembling Hand]

They are better businessmen.

They do the Business of Business better.

Yes but thats just stating the bleeding obvious. It doesn't in anyway address the why some get/are good at some things while others fail?

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Yes but thats just stating the bleeding obvious. It doesn't in anyway address the why some get/are good at some things while others fail?

You don't know why?

 

[Trembling Hand]

You don't know why?

Many reasons, timing, opportunity, encouragement, environment, personality, intelligence. But mostly see

deliberative practise.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Many reasons, timing, opportunity, encouragement, environment, personality, intelligence. But mostly see

deliberative practise.

Well good. Why not just say that!

 

[Trembling Hand]

Well good. Why not just say that!

I've been saying it for 6 years.......

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I've been saying it for 6 years.......

Good to see personality and encouragement in your list nowadays.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Good to see personality and encouragement in your list nowadays.

LOL always was. Before you think you have had any influence on my thinking...... sorry nope.

 

[tech/a]

Yes but thats just stating the bleeding obvious. It doesn't in anyway address the why some get/are good at some things while others fail?

Hmmm dont know about that either.
Those that succeed are often scrutinized by those who fail
citing this and that. Yet those who succeed often at the same or
similar "business" appear to have been blessed with timing, opportunity, encouragement, environment, personality, intelligence,when they are no better than those who have failed.

I think it boils down to and as far back as Childhood/Parents/Roll Models.
The foundation often that we dont or cant see.
Without a solid foundation the---timing, opportunity, encouragement, environment, personality, intelligence--- wont have a chance.

 

[Trembling Hand]

I think it boils down to and as far back as Childhood/Parents/Roll Models.
The foundation often that we dont or cant see.

Plenty of people with horrendous foundations have made it big time. Opera, Rockefeller, Abraham Lincoln, Larry Ellison, Sean Combs, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and on and on...

Some of the softest underachievers I know have had great, hell near on perfect, up bringing.