Trading advice

[weird]

I'm not buying this thread...it feels like there's a sales pitch coming.

I wouldn't worry too much about it ... inexperience has been pre-stated, unless some other character comes along to save the day.

Trading for regular income is a different game, a game I at least don't know how to play. I know someone that can be wildly successful doing futures option spreads, but for some reason prefers doing it for clients under a major financial company name instead of under his own weight.

Steady income equates to a pay check ... which is from an employer ... and I am sure there are many self-employed people, perhaps agree the word steady, is not a given.

 

[IFocus]

I'm not buying this thread...it feels like there's a sales pitch coming.

Simple contribute.............put it on the line..........lets hear what you know tell us all how its done

 

[xygtho]

Education should come before experiance should it not?

Not necessarily, I mean, learning on the job (experience) can usually be better than education. I know some people who've studied, to learn more the ins and outs on the job where you cant find out from just educating yourself. Although the peice of paper that you get from studying usually helps you get the job in the first place.

But in saying so, put the two together. Who knows. Maybe you got an advantage I would guess.

also in regards to the lots of money thing, its called margin lending.

be careful. lol.

 

[xygtho]

Also. For anyone who wants to actually trade on the stock markets, and not talk crap,

paper trading/simulated trading, is pretty much useless.

Your not actually participating.

When you participate, you will find that your participation is making the stock go up or down, along with the market conditions.

Want trading advice, stick with RIO, BHP and your blue guys, put your money in these strong companies, (blue chips), and let your money run. Last time I checked, RIO was at around $75/unit, when they peaked, they were at $125, so your looking at possibly a 66% return + dividend. Thats making your capital work and grow. Now if you put 10K, thats $6600 return. Just gotta wait till it reaches that point, I doubt there'll be a W shaped disaster, but ultimately the stock market never disapears and history tells us strong companies and government backed companies will recover, it should reach that point and go beyond since the world is continually growing and theres a new mining boom coming. (but yes look at telstra) (omg the variables)

Telstra is paying 10% dividend?

So yeh, theres oppurtunities. If you want to take a big risk, Virgin Blue were $2.40 at their peak, the stock is at $0.54 cents. Do the maths.

I should take my own advice. But I want the profits today, I want to beat the market at the end of the day. On paper it worked, in practise, different story. Stop loss *cough* stop loss *cough* sell short *cough* take my own advice *cough*

still a newbie. and i dont know what im on about. i admit that. hehehehe

 

[xygtho]

I still think the stock market is only good when it crashes. What is it, another 7 - 10 years for the next one. What do you guys think?

I think the trading advice heading is a bit broad

 

[xygtho]

im over it.

 

[mazzatelli]

im over it.

orix...is that you? :
lol

 

[nunthewiser]

Yes ...... Blue chips definately "safe " hey bud.........

BNB .great investment

Sons of Gwalia ........... awesome stuff .......

Too many great "blue chip" stocks to mention .

Go the blueies!

 

[Aussiest]

Aussiest - thanks, why wouldnt you start with only $20k? What would your minimum capital size be? Not forgetting that this is only a start, and I will look to increase the investment as I get more comfortable with my (yet to be developed) system.

I rarely trade speculative stocks, some people are very good at it, but not me. I think 20k would be okay to start specs with if you knew what you were doing..

With 20k, you would only be able to open one (or two v. small) positions in a blue chip stock, that's why i suggested index CFD trading. DYOR, set stops.

Nun lol @ BNB... what a disaster...

 

[Sir Osisofliver]

Also. For anyone who wants to actually trade on the stock markets, and not talk crap,

paper trading/simulated trading, is pretty much useless.

Really? Thanks for that xygtho, it's good to know I've been wasting so much of my time for so many years. /sarcasm.

Xygtho I maintain certain levels when I test a new strategy so I don't waste time. Here are the levels.

New Idea/Strategy
I go away and gather data on the target space (Ie if it's a strategy that will only be employed within the ASX200 I will gather that data) and apply the idea on historical data. Personally I find that I like to test the data in both rising and falling markets. (This is how a long time ago I figured out not to use oscillators in strongly trending markets for example).

Phase two of the testing process will be to test against live data.

and Phase three of the testing process will be to test using a small portion of the funds ultimately destined for the strategy.

From phase I and II I learn the following highly important pieces of data.

win/loss ratio
cents gained versus cents lost (anything less that 3 cents gained per cent lost is abandoned)

The above determines my positional sizing model that I will use, and if using leverage in the strategy, what portion of my own funds I am risking.

It also lets me know how close to the price action I need to establish my stop loss positioning.

Back-testing is time-consuming and can be complex, but is highly rewarding if done right. Doing it wrong......not so good.

Your not actually participating.

When you participate, you will find that your participation is making the stock go up or down, along with the market conditions.

In my professional opinion I highly doubt that your trading volumes are sufficent enough to alter your outcomes in anything but the most thinly traded stocks. If you ARE trading in thinly traded stocks where you are moving the price...that could be part of your problem right there.

Want trading advice,

No you are specifically restricted from providing advice on these boards.

stick with RIO, BHP and your blue guys, put your money in these strong companies, (blue chips), and let your money run. Last time I checked, RIO was at around $75/unit, when they peaked, they were at $125, so your looking at possibly a 66% return + dividend. Thats making your capital work and grow. Now if you put 10K, thats $6600 return. Just gotta wait till it reaches that point, I doubt there'll be a W shaped disaster, but ultimately the stock market never disapears and history tells us strong companies and government backed companies will recover, it should reach that point and go beyond since the world is continually growing and theres a new mining boom coming. (but yes look at telstra) (omg the variables)

Telstra is paying 10% dividend?

So yeh, theres oppurtunities. If you want to take a big risk, Virgin Blue were $2.40 at their peak, the stock is at $0.54 cents. Do the maths.

I should take my own advice.

Why? Are you an educated professional trader? I don't mean to be derisive here, I just want to challenge what you think you know. You have no way of knowing what it is that you do not know. That lack of knowledge can hurt you if you are playing around with your hard-earned dollars with no risk management, positional sizing or trading rules in place.

But I want the profits today, I want to beat the market at the end of the day. On paper it worked, in practise, different story. Stop loss *cough* stop loss *cough* sell short *cough* take my own advice *cough*

still a newbie. and i dont know what im on about. i admit that. hehehehe

Cheers

Sir O

 

[xygtho]

yes so much to learn.

and yes you dont know what you dont know.

and yes, risk management. cool. im wiser.

so in other words, test, set rules, stick to those rules and profit.

 

[xygtho]

Read 'How I made 2 million in the stock market'. by Darvas.

Yeh, how to make 2 millions dollars by writing a book with a lure of a heading.



hahaha

 

[xygtho]

Why? Are you an educated professional trader? I don't mean to be derisive here, I just want to challenge what you think you know. You have no way of knowing what it is that you do not know. That lack of knowledge can hurt you if you are playing around with your hard-earned dollars with no risk management, positional sizing or trading rules in place.

I am definitely not an educated professional, but positional sizing sounds interesting. I am looking into it. Thanks.

Bare with me, i am one of those "Thought thought he farted but Thought ****ted type of person when it comes to trading.

Can anybody elaborate how many trades they make in a week?

 

[Sir Osisofliver]

I am definitely not an educated professional, but positional sizing sounds interesting. I am looking into it. Thanks.

Bare with me, i am one of those "Thought thought he farted but Thought ****ted type of person when it comes to trading.

Can anybody elaborate how many trades they make in a week?

Why is that important?

Some trading systems will give you a way to make small frequent gains. Some systems given you infrequent gains (because they are dependent upon certain conditions).

Make sense?

Cheers

Sir O

 

[condog]

whoooooo back everyone

take a chill pill

Experience will teach who thinks he knows all, where as knowledge will be the teacher of he who is brave enough to ask and wise enough to listen.

 

[Bryan Carlin]

If you start trading, without first educating yourself and learning the 'rules of trading' you will fail.

Better to take up brain surgery, at least you can burn and bury your mistakes. With trading you only burn and bury yourself.

Paper trading if fine but it will never take the place of real time trading because when you have to activate your 'stop loss' your real emotions take over.

People spend years educating themselves in their professions but go full on into trading with no education or experience.

Trading is more about managing your risk and capital. You should first decide if you want to be an 'investor' or a 'trader'.

Ninety percent of people who start trading fail because they don't know what they are doing and do not have the mental strength to press the 'sell' button when they have reached their 'stop loss'.

Trading the stock market is not easy and to be successful takes a lot of work. If you are not prepared to spend considerable time to educate yourself, you are better off to go to the Casino.

 

[Investor82]

Thanks for the info guys/girls - really appreciate it.

 

[IFocus]

If you start trading, without first educating yourself and learning the 'rules of trading' you will fail.

Better to take up brain surgery, at least you can burn and bury your mistakes. With trading you only burn and bury yourself.

Paper trading if fine but it will never take the place of real time trading because when you have to activate your 'stop loss' your real emotions take over.

People spend years educating themselves in their professions but go full on into trading with no education or experience.

Trading is more about managing your risk and capital. You should first decide if you want to be an 'investor' or a 'trader'.

Ninety percent of people who start trading fail because they don't know what they are doing and do not have the mental strength to press the 'sell' button when they have reached their 'stop loss'.

Trading the stock market is not easy and to be successful takes a lot of work. If you are not prepared to spend considerable time to educate yourself, you are better off to go to the Casino.

Bryan I think this is a general misunderstanding by the masses

Paper trading is a process that IMHO is a process required on the way to profitable trading.

Paper trading for a new starter is to test if you know what you are doing.

If you cannot make a profit paper trading............

Its also a process to establish correct trading behaviors

Trading real money comes much later

 

[SmellyTerror]

I think Byan's point is that, no matter how much paper trading you do, once there's real money in there you can get emotional and screw things up.

"Ok, I just lost 10 thousand dollars in a week. If my wife finds out she is going to set my PC on fire, maybe my testicles too, and never let me trade again. BUT, hey, that company has good fundamentals, right? I mean, there was a reason I got in, right? So it's still as likely to go up as it ever was! Yeah! Hell, if I sold it now, I'd just be getting back in because now it's even better value than when I got it the first time. Maybe I should buy more...? And if I don't sell it, it's not a loss yet, is it? So I'll just hold it another couple of days - there's good news due any day now, and everyone has the earning expectations wrong, I'm certain. And anyway, if I save it 'till tax time and sell it then I could use that loss to offset my winnings from elsewhere! Thank you government, paying 40% of my losses. In any case, I'm sure it's all to do with that bad news yesterday - it'll bounce right back. That was an abberation, it doesn't count. Plus, the dividends! With those and the tax write off, I'm practically in the black! I just need to hold them a bit longer, and I'll be right".

Yeah, that way lies madness. And poverty. And burnt testicles.

Learn what to do until you know WHY you're doing it, so you WILL do it. Be a meaty cog in the money-generating machine.

...and don't tell your wife every time you take a loss, because taking a loss is part of the game. The whole point of this is to stay in the game, and taking a loss when you need to is how you do that.

(Not to say "don't paper trade", just be aware of the traps once you trade real money).

 

[GumbyLearner]

The whole point of this is to stay in the game, and taking a loss when you need to is how you do that.

(Not to say "don't paper trade", just be aware of the traps once you trade real money).

The whole point is to have fun, oh and survive of course.

But fun is good!!!