Traders - How long until you turned a regular profit?

[Porper]

I think few will confuse tenacity and purpose with arrogance. Of course, the arrogant will always add arrogance to the mix.

Perhaps arrogance is often mistaken for passion... dunno.

There is a big difference between arrogance and drive/purpose i.m.o. maybe more difficult to tell on a forum, very easy in real life.

I met a person from this forum not too long ago with a so called arrogant attitude and he wasn't like that at all.Obviously has drive, big difference. Arrogance to me is talking yourself up all the time and being condescending to others.

Having said all that some of the top achievers appear arrogant, and maybe choose to be that way because it helps them stay on top.Tiger Woods comes to mind.

 

[wavepicker]

I first started in the markets in 1997 with 15K and turned into 400K by April 2000. Six months later I was lucky to pull half that out of the market and thankfully used the cash to renovate my house before getting married.

I could not really call myself a trader at that time as I had absolutely no idea what I was doing, throwing as much as I could into the market and was trading mainly off tips and rumours. No game plan, no strategy, and no money management. It was the worst possible start to trading one could imagine because I thougth I could do no wrong. The next 3 years were roller coasters, profitable one year and blowing accounts the next, but that is when I would say I gave more thought to my trading. In total blew up 4 accounts, starting from scratch again each time until it got pounded into my head what I needed to.

One day it finally dawned to me what I needed to do. SURVIVE.
If I could survive and make it my number one priority, the profits would slowly come by themselves. So ones first priority is not to get rich, but survive, because most do not survive past the first year.

In fact this turned out to be the case, from 2003 onward I have been consistantly profitable, initially not great returns, but gradually improving every year until now whereby on I would return the average wage which I am happy with as a part time trader.

Aside form the need to survive, I would say having the discipline and patience to wait for the right trades to come along are the most important traits to attain in this business. Trade the 80/20 setups and try to stack the cards in your favour as much as possible and stuff eveything else. Also perseverence, and tough mindness are a must in my opinion.

I think TH is right with what he says. I would say for most that persevere it would take anything between 4-10 years of experience before they became CONSISTANTLY profitable.

Just my thoughts

 

[professor_frink]

I first started in the markets in 1997 with 15K and turned into 400K by April 2000. Six months later I was lucky to pull half that out of the market and thankfully used the cash to renovate my house before getting married.

I could not really call myself a trader at that time as I had absolutely no idea what I was doing, throwing as much as I could into the market and was trading mainly off tips and rumours. No game plan, no strategy, and no money management. It was the worst possible start to trading one could imagine because I thougth I could do no wrong. The next 3 years were roller coasters, profitable one year and blowing accounts the next, but that is when I would say I gave more thought to my trading. In total blew up 4 accounts, starting from scratch again each time until it got pounded into my head what I needed to.

One day it finally dawned to me what I needed to do. SURVIVE.
If I could survive and make it my number one priority, the profits would slowly come by themselves. So ones first priority is not to get rich, but survive, because most do not survive past the first year.

In fact this turned out to be the case, from 2003 onward I have been consistantly profitable, initially not great returns, but gradually improving every year until now whereby on I would return the average wage which I am happy with as a part time trader.

Aside form the need to survive, I would say having the discipline and patience to wait for the right trades to come along are the most important traits to attain in this business. Trade the 80/20 setups and rety to stack the cards in your favour as much as possible and stuff eveything else. Also perseverence, and tough mindness are a must in my opinion.

I think TH is right with what he says. I would say for most that persevere it would take anything between 4-10 years of experience before they became CONSISTANTLY profitable.

Just my thoughts

well said WP

 

[trishan9390]

Having said all that some of the top achievers appear arrogant, and maybe choose to be that way because it helps them stay on top.Tiger Woods comes to mind.

And the Australian cricket team. :topic



Disclaimer: South African cricket fan

 

[wayneL]

Arrogance to me is talking yourself up all the time and being condescending to others.

Mmmmmm, yes.

Having said all that some of the top achievers appear arrogant, and maybe choose to be that way because it helps them stay on top.Tiger Woods comes to mind.

TW doesn't seem arrogant to me... focussed, confident, knows his ability, dour maybe, but not arrogant. You won't hear him bleating the "you're all muppets, lucky to to be basking in my greatness" garbage we are often subjected to elsewhere (as far as I know anyway).

 

[Porper]

TW doesn't seem arrogant to me... focussed, confident, knows his ability, dour maybe, but not arrogant. You won't hear him bleating the "you're all muppets, luck to to be basking in my greatness" garbage we are often subjected to elsewhere (as far as I know anyway).

Yes, maybe he was a bad example.He doesn't have much positive to say about his fellow competitors though.Psychological games no doubt.

Now you live in England Wayne (my old home), you will have no doubt met or seen some of the football players over there.If you want a definition of arrogance, look no further than some of them.

 

[wayneL]

Yes, maybe he was a bad example.He doesn't have much positive to say about his fellow competitors though.Psychological games no doubt.

Now you live in England Wayne (my old home), you will have no doubt met or seen some of the football players over there.If you want a definition of arrogance, look no further than some of them.

Fortunately, I have so far been spared from the experience, but I know what you mean. Don't forget I've been around equestrian and racing my whole life... just like footballers. Different clothes, bling, cars etc; but same deal

Repugnant.

 

[MRC & Co]

Passion is often mistaken for arrogance.

I agree with TH.
If your not outside your comfort zone your not really pushing your boundaries.
If you dont push your boundaries then you wont grow.

Unbridled enthusiasm must be encouraged.
You'll learn more from failure whilst pushing your boundaries than from success.

If your doing what you want to do everyday you'll not be poor!

These are my sentiments.

Thanks Tech.

 

[theasxgorilla]

And the Australian cricket team. :topic



Disclaimer: South African cricket fan

Yes, it's off topic but I was thinking exactly the same thing.

I'm an Aussie and love the fact that the cricket team is so successful. I remember those darker days in the 80's when the Windies and England used to hand us our proverbials on a plate.

But the word 'ruthless' is often used to describe the way in which Australia goes about winning.

 

[Julia]

I'm with you. I would still like to see how someone could live off trading after such a small period of time (less than 2 years)And how they did it. Especially since most traders start with a small capital base. Just the break even point after tax, expenses and living cost is way high.

TH, thank you for expanding and clarifying what I said with my now much criticised "hot shots" post.

MRC& Co: you haven't expressed an adverse reaction to TH's above comment, so I can only assume it was my 'young hot shots" bit that annoyed you so much.
You are quite right to take me to task for that expression. It has a pejorative and critical tone.

It was absolutely not directed at Jersey who has been so forthright and honest with his questions and so ready to take advice. I don't recall him at any stage being arrogant in his aspirations.

But from time to time young people do come on to ASF with obviously unrealistic expectations of what they can achieve with minimal capital and less experience. It's not unreasonable for older people to warn against these expectations.

You have described your own success. Congratulations. You've obviously worked hard and made real progress. However, I don't think too many people would regard $12,000 p.a. as a reasonable living. Fine if you can live at home etc., but not fine if you are going to have a family and a mortgage etc.

 

[Julia]

young hotshots!!

you sound like my nanna

:couch :hide:

Ah, the wisdom of grandmothers.

Anyway, Frinky, you really are the archetypal true grit real life hotshot, aren't you? Don't tell me you have been fooling me all this time.

 

[nizar]

However, I don't think too many people would regard $12,000 p.a. as a reasonable living.

LOL i was thinking the same thing.

 

[tasmanian]

Im pretty sure hes made $12000 since halfway through this financial year.Which puts him on track for around $20,000 if he can keep it up.

Not a bad start Id say and he is getting a part time job to cover living expenses.Seems a pretty good plan and start to me.Anything can happen though and probaly will but you never know if you never gnly live once!!!

Who knows in a couple of years he could eb pulling $100,000+

 

[Julia]

How do you know your banks will recover more than inflationary pressures over the next 10-20 years?

I would certainly rather be learning what I am now (it has been WELL worth the time off), than be 50+ and so scared to take a chance so just dump my money in blue chips and "hope" they continue to move up

Aren't you being somewhat presumptuous here as far as Nioka and I are concerned? Not to mention rude? How do you know what chances any of us may or may not have taken? Is it any of your business?

How do you know how either or both of us manage our investments? I don't know if Nioka currently has bank shares or not.
You seem to assume that I do. Actually, I don't at present. For some reason you appear to assume that I am purely a 'buy and hold' investor, or as you so critically suggest, 'buy and hope' . You also assume older people only buy 'blue chip' stocks. Lots of assumptions there.

I have no idea why you imagine anyone who doesn't describe themselves as a "trader' is precluded from making appropriate decisions about buying and selling as the market changes.

For all you know, I may have no shares at all at present.

So, get angry about perceived 'put down' language, viz hot shots. I take the term back 100%. But don't get angry when people who may just have acquired a bit of experience along a difficult pathway suggest that making a viable living from trading on a small capital base is less than easy.

 

[nizar]

Who knows in a couple of years he could eb pulling $100,000+

I dont disagree.

 

[jersey10]

Yes, of course. The only valid comparison would be probably over a period of about ten years.
I'm just a little surprised about the results of the poll. Should be a good warning to all those young hotshots who are going to live off their trading with a start-up capital of $40,000 or so!

I never said i was going to live off my trading with a start-up capital of $40 000 with no other income. I said i have a trading capital of $40 000 and i have reduced the work load of my 'normal' job from 5 days per week to 4 days per week. So in effect i still have 4/5 of my 'normal' income and $40 000 to use for trading. I then went on to say i believe i could make 50% on that 40k over a period of 12 months with the help of The Chartist set ups. Only time will tell if i am good enough to do this. A large proportion of the time i no longer spend at my 'normal' job is now spent learning about trading and developing a plan.

Jersey10

 

[julius]

I intend to utilise Radge

in a can

 

[MRC & Co]

Mine was a generalisation, in defence of a generalisation. No harm intended either, so will leave it at that.

Tasmanian and Jersey said the rest (the part where you mentioned 40k and young insinuated Jersey, obviously we interpreted wrong). 12k in <4 months. Still not a great income, only using it to help fund my study and gain experience for the moment. Then, will try to maintain positive figures to build the capital base while I work part-time.

I do not live at home. No family, no mortgage (do not want one when I can pay rent as opposed to interest and use the capital to potentially generate larger returns). Just my theory anyways. I do realise it is much more complex than this, but I have done the figures and this is my conclusion.

All the best.

 

[MRC & Co]

in a can

LMAO!!!!!!

 

[JTLP]

I think i've been a pretty unlucky kid. Got into the markets in October '07, and saw a 15% increase in my holdings pretty rapidly. Started to buy and sell (thinking I was it and a bit and going on rumours, ramps etc) and got burnt pretty badly. My losses for the year are about 2% of my income (which may not seem a lot) but that 2% is priceless to me in the lessons learnt!

If there is one thing that life teaches you, is that you never stop learning.

I am currently only turning a profit off 1 of my stocks (out of a total of 7). My losses range between 4% and 60% (wish I knew about stop losses!). Hopefully I can start to turn a profit next year (ableit a small one).

This site has been invaluable with all the technical skills learnt. I work full time and imagine trying to DT with Commsec & your boss walking past every 5minutes :.

One last thing I have learnt the hard way...sometimes the fundamentals are just not match for the technicals...