Traders - How long until you turned a regular profit?

Trembling Hand said:

Have the 6 that voted less than 1 year found it that easy to pull grocery money and rent (etc) on a weekly/monthly basis out of the market or have they misunderstood the poll?

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I suppose you would vote for less than 1 year if you were already consistantly profitable before turning Pro.

To me I can't see why anybody would give up their job to have a go at trading full time without knowing as near to 100% as possible that you would succeed.

Also, let's not forget this is a chat forum and some members will be less than honest.

It's an anonymous poll, so why would participants bother to be less than honest?

ice

Profits that come within one to two years from trading often get given back at a later date as the market conditions change but I do know a trader who was and still is profitable from day one 8-9 years later but shes one out of the box

IFocus said:

Profits that come within one to two years from trading often get given back at a later date as the market conditions change but I do know a trader who was and still is profitable from day one 8-9 years later but shes one out of the box

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This is me. Straight away was making good money. This was perhaps a bad thing for long term as few lessons learned. Now doing worse than my very first month!

According to the poll more than 70% took more than three years to be profitable or are still not yet profitable.

I wonder what a similar poll result would be if the question were to be asked of investors?

Julia said:

According to the poll more than 70% took more than three years to be profitable or are still not yet profitable.

I wonder what a similar poll result would be if the question were to be asked of investors?

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Would depend on when you ask I would think. Obviously All that started something like a buy and hold in April 03 would be doing a lot better than those that started in April 01 or October 87 etc. Would you agree Julia?

Trembling Hand said:

Would depend on when you ask I would think. Obviously All that started something like a buy and hold in April 03 would be doing a lot better than those that started in April 01 or October 87 etc. Would you agree Julia?

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Yes, of course. The only valid comparison would be probably over a period of about ten years.
I'm just a little surprised about the results of the poll. Should be a good warning to all those young hotshots who are going to live off their trading with a start-up capital of $40,000 or so!

Julia said:

Should be a good warning to all those young hotshots who are going to live off their trading with a start-up capital of $40,000 or so!

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Don't warn them off. They are putting funds into the market that filter through to those of us who are not so impatient.

Julia said:

Yes, of course. The only valid comparison would be probably over a period of about ten years.
I'm just a little surprised about the results of the poll. Should be a good warning to all those young hotshots who are going to live off their trading with a start-up capital of $40,000 or so!

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I'm with you. I would still like to see how someone could live off trading after such a small period of time (less than 2 years)And how they did it. Especially since most traders start with a small capital base. Just the break even point after tax, expenses and living cost is way high.

I actually voted as not made a profit yet, but actually if I look at my entire trading timeframe, I am in profit (after tax etc.).

Up until May last year, like most, I was well in front and if the poll was done then, I would have voted that I was making a regular profit.

In a good month, I can usually draw a "regular" profit for the month, then give it all back the next.

I will make this post and I will make it once, as I HATE the bias from these "old and experienced" having a go at "young hotshot" either directly as in this post, or through insinuation on other threads. I know other "young hotshots" feel the same. Thanks to the more knowledgable guys here who support us young traders with widsom and with no need to make condescending remarks, you know who you are.

I am not the only "young hotshot" making a decent amount of $$ in my first couple years on the site. I know another but I do not want to drag him in, he can enter at his own will.

This is the truth so take it for what you will.

I quit work after working the first half of this financial year. So far I have made 12k to live off entirely through trading once quitting work. Not going to live off that and increase the capital base long-term (hence why I stated I am going to work part-time to cover living costs in another thread).

Now, it has been enough to live off (cheap rent and eat most meals at home, barely leave the house so not much expense on petrol and I have actually been able to save beleive it or not). I have taken the philosophy of living cheap since quitting work and since I have spent the majority of 16 hours a day studying, I have barely needed to leave the house, except to play my sports.

Tax will get me, however since PAYG through 6 months working, the tax return may not be too bad this year.

Now what is my capital base, this has also been stated on another thread. I will not keep putting it out there as I do not see most here revealing much at all about their trading, capital base, yearly % income averaged over their "full-time trading career". Though I freely discuss this with those I talk to privately.

And I am also not saying I will continue to be successful, but doing all in my power to ensure I trade what suits my personality and to protect my capital base to ensure longevity in this game. This is the key to me at the moment, until I have my set-ups and tradeplan downpat. Position trades on equities are getting there and I intend to utilise Radge to help refine this. Intraday futures trading has just begun, so I cannot comment on this yet but most of my current strategies and ideas are through the knowledge of John Carter and Gary Smith oh and I should add Brent Penfold in there, with my own additions and ideas added.

I would certainly rather be learning what I am now (it has been WELL worth the time off), than be 50+ and so scared to take a chance so just dump my money in blue chips and "hope" they continue to move up. Perhaps this suits your personality, nothing wrong with that. But keep your direct insults to yourself. As far as fundamental analysis on long-termers, I have my own little portfolio of those too, through thorough research and I have taken the time to study F/A myself, helped immensly by my previous education.

You do not have to be the next great trader in the news to make a living from this business, plenty do it on a daily basis, of course you need consistency and a large capital base and most realise this is the key. But the key is you have to TAKE A CHANCE.

I think it is fantastic to see those trying (insinuation about the 40k was based on jersey no doubt, who put the truth out there to learn from and who stated he intended to keep working as long as it takes, posts like the ones above definately do not help him), at least they are not scared to face the world and do what they want to do, not just stay in their secure job and gain a secure income which is FAR EASIER to do!

Julia said:

Yes, of course. The only valid comparison would be probably over a period of about ten years.

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Would it?

Perhaps you have not seen the charts throughout 1900-2000, particularly the middle of the century.

MRC & Co said:

I will make this post and I will make it once, as I HATE the bias from these "old and experienced" having a go at "young hotshot" either directly as in this post, or through insinuation on other threads. !

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Maybe it is not bias, maybe we have "been there and done that". Think about the "hot shots" at Opes etc, etc. The 5% success rate is about right as I see it. I don't like it when someone is encouraging others to try something that I know has a very high chance of failure. Some will succeed but it will only be at the expense of the losers. In most cases it is necessary for someone to lose for another to gain when it comes to trading.

Julia said:

Yes, of course. The only valid comparison would be probably over a period of about ten years.
I'm just a little surprised about the results of the poll. Should be a good warning to all those young hotshots who are going to live off their trading with a start-up capital of $40,000 or so!

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young hotshots!!

you sound like my nanna

:couch :hide:

MRC & Co said:

I am not the only "young hotshot" making a decent amount of $$ in my first couple years on the site.

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I can't find any post that says you are a young hotshot ??????????

Besides, what makes you think that you are ??????????

Arrogance will kill you in the market just when you think you are invincible.

Porper said:

I can't find any post that says you are a young hotshot ??????????

Besides, what makes you think that you are ??????????

Arrogance will kill you in the market just when you think you are invincible.

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I agree, arrogance already killed a portion of my trading account last year when I was on a role, as stated in other threads. I freely admit all my wrong doings and keep a spreadsheet filled with them.

"Young hotshot" insinuates a young person wishing to trade for a living in the aforementioned post. Not neccissarily arrogance. It was directed at Jersey, who does not appear arrogance whatsoever.

Nioka, I encourage all to protect their capital first, as I stated. 5% succeed, but how many really try? Have they written and precisely followed and recorded, analysed and updated a trade plan? Who did they get their trade plan from or who helped create it? This is (having a precise trade plan) more important than the actual set-ups IMO.

How would people such as you and Julia fare in the timeframe I stated above? This could have harmed an entire investment lifetime until this period was broken in the 80s. How do you know we are not entering a similar period? How do you know your banks will recover more than inflationary pressures over the next 10-20 years? Are you currently better off than an experienced trader starting as of today?

I already stated I may not succeed, only for now I am. But I appreciate the randomness of the markets and am always in fear of it. I always think I will loose from the second I click the execute button and hence have measures taken to protect being wiped out.

I guess if this is a thread about turning a regular $ from trading for your income its going to be wildly diff from person to person.

I started my first biz at the age of 22 with nothing more than unrealistic words and a promise to work myself into the ground. And work myself into the ground I did. Didn't have a holiday for 3 years, worked 7 days a week for the first year, earned less than had I been on the dole, slept in a store room for 2 years BUT most profitable time of my life in terms of experience just not $$.

I would say if there is any time to be a hotshot its when you are young. You just may make it. And if you don't who cares lots of time left to be conventional.

Trembling Hand said:

I would say if there is any time to be a hotshot its when you are young. You just may make it. And if you don't who cares lots of time left to be conventional.

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Exactly TH. One of the few guys who put his money where his mouth is.

Great experience and if it works, great, if it does not, you are in a similar position anyways and you will learn more and probably have more fun (including stress, which can be fun in it's own right), than anyone who spent 50 years in stability.

Whether it be trading or starting your own business (which can be the same), if you have the drive, and take the chance (of course an educated chance), then you are already in a better situation than 95% of those who "try".

LJ Hooker went bankrupt multiple times didn't he? Just one example. Of course, he is one of the success stories. Too many people are bound by fear and it is a BIG step to leap out of that mentality.

Give me a fun life doing what I want anyday even if I end up poor, over a boring, daily grind.

Passion is often mistaken for arrogance.

I agree with TH.
If your not outside your comfort zone your not really pushing your boundaries.
If you dont push your boundaries then you wont grow.

Unbridled enthusiasm must be encouraged.
You'll learn more from failure whilst pushing your boundaries than from success.

If your doing what you want to do everyday you'll not be poor!

I think few will confuse tenacity and purpose with arrogance. Of course, the arrogant will always add arrogance to the mix.

Perhaps arrogance is often mistaken for passion... dunno.