Tony Abbott for PM

[FlyingFox]

That is an interesting comment. Perhaps you would like to expand on the detail of the "mess" that the Rudd/Gillard government inherited from Howard and Costello. Perhaps you could explain how much the deficit was. Was it in the order of 10 to 20 billion?

A budget deficit is not the only mess a country can have .... The impact of policies can be just as bad if not more severe.

1) middle class welfare.
2) first home buyers grant.

To name two. Again not necessarily bad ideas but bad implementation.

 

[waza1960]

I've mentioned it before but I'm confident Abbott will make a good PM and he will have competent ministers to back him up.
Look at his history...
He was an effective minister in the Howard Government.
He was an effective Opposition leader.
In the last few months he has changed his image and bearing to look like a PM.
I think that he will make a great PM. Not that it will be hard to beat this rabble.

 

[FlyingFox]

That's an interesting take Knobby. I didn't realise you were so rusted on. Could you provide the figures.

$12 Billion. http://www.news.com.au/national-new...after-fiscal-gap/story-fnho52ip-1226631143925

That is one of many articles you can find stating that amount and reasons behind the shortfall.

 

[Calliope]

$12 Billion.
That is one of many articles you can find stating that amount and reasons behind the shortfall.

Indeed there are. But Knobby said;

The hole is not caused by government spending but low tax intake.

And the answer is;

"They don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem.

"If you look at the overall situation, sure spending is up - $100 billion almost since 2007 and revenue is up $70 billion since 2007.

"There is something like a 7 per cent increase in the revenue this year on last year. There is no way that the Government should be setting us up now for yet another big deficit in the current financial year.

"We have to be upfront about the fact that you will never see a surplus, you will never see fiscal responsibility from this Government.

"When this Government first went into deficit they said it was a temporary deficit, well we're coming up for the fifth year of a temporary deficit and there are deficits stretching out as far as the eye can see."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-29/abbott-distances-himself-from-gillard-alcoholic-jibe/4657246

 

[Calliope]

A budget deficit is not the only mess a country can have .... The impact of policies can be just as bad if not more severe.

1) middle class welfare.
2) first home buyers grant.

To name two. Again not necessarily bad ideas but bad implementation.

Of course they were bad ideas...but nobody forced them on Labor. They were too gutless to abandon them.

 

[FlyingFox]

Of course they were bad ideas...but nobody forced them on Labor. They were too gutless to abandon them.

See my original reply to Knobby. My points exactly. As will the next government. Whomever tells the populace to that they are taking "their" money away is in for a shock....

In this age, it is easy to give money out, very difficult to wind it back.

 

[FlyingFox]

Indeed there are. But Knobby said;



And the answer is;


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-29/abbott-distances-himself-from-gillard-alcoholic-jibe/4657246

Ok, I agree that they should have been wiser with spending etc. But at the end of the day, they have a budget with some assumptions and if all assumptions play out, you have a balanced budget. If you have a massive revenue shortfall you have a deficit.

If your earning a million dollars, you can afford to spend it right? Whether you should or not a different argument to if you suddenly don't get this expected money and are in debt.

 

[Calliope]

Ok, I agree that they should have been wiser with spending etc. But at the end of the day, they have a budget with some assumptions and if all assumptions play out, you have a balanced budget. If you have a massive revenue shortfall you have a deficit.

If your earning a million dollars, you can afford to spend it right? Whether you should or not a different argument to if you suddenly don't get this expected money and are in debt.

I see. It wasn't the over-spending that was the problem. And it wasn't the revenue shortfall that was the problem. It was the expectation that the mining boom would continue forever that encouraged them to go on a spending spree. Economic stupidity.:bad:

 

[sptrawler]

Ok, I agree that they should have been wiser with spending etc. But at the end of the day, they have a budget with some assumptions and if all assumptions play out, you have a balanced budget. If you have a massive revenue shortfall you have a deficit.

If your earning a million dollars, you can afford to spend it right? Whether you should or not a different argument to if you suddenly don't get this expected money and are in debt.

Maybe you can give me an example of one initiative that has been delivered, on time on, budget and better still without disaster.

If you have a revenue shortfall, you adapt, adjust, overcome.
You have to do that with your family budget, if you don't you are punished, bankrupcy or agreed debt payments and a black credit mark.

But no the government can sit on their fat @rse and say it wasn't our fault, what a bloody joke.

 

[FlyingFox]

I see. It wasn't the over-spending that was the problem. And it wasn't the revenue shortfall that was the problem. It was the expectation that the mining boom would continue forever that encouraged them to go on a spending spree. Economic stupidity.:bad:

Something a lot of people have in common with Gillard and Swan ...

 

[sptrawler]

I see. It wasn't the over-spending that was the problem. And it wasn't the revenue shortfall that was the problem. It was the expectation that the mining boom would continue forever that encouraged them to go on a spending spree. Economic stupidity.:bad:

Funny now the goon show is saying, the mining boom didn't happen in their term.
However they were screaming that the lack of people for the mining boom, brought on the 457's big time.lol

This government has done nothing, other than lift their wages by 40%, what a scam.IMO

 

[Calliope]

Something a lot of people have in common with Gillard and Swan ...

Exactly. But what can you expect in a government made up mostly of union leaders, union hacks and union lawyers.

 

[FlyingFox]

Maybe you can give me an example of one initiative that has been delivered, on time on, budget and better still without disaster.

Can you give me an example of any Australian government in the last 5 years where this was the case? Any large projects?

If you have a revenue shortfall, you adapt, adjust, overcome.
You have to do that with your family budget, if you don't you are punished, bankrupcy or agreed debt payments and a black credit mark.

You might be able to adjust your budget every few minutes, the government works at quarterly and half yearly basis. They can't react that quickly ...

But no the government can sit on their fat @rse and say it wasn't our fault, what a bloody joke.

Well then we vote them out ...

 

[Julia]

It is not because I don't think they are competent, although that is questionable in all camps but more so because of the general situation.

You really don't think they have engaged in irresponsible spending?

As much as the current government has been incompetent at implementing their policies, and I emphasise the implementation part as I don't think their policies have been too bad.

Agree that initiatives like the NDIS are worthwhile endeavours, but - quite apart from the potential stuff up in actual implementation, viz their record to date, can the country actually afford this at this time?

Will this government leave a big mess for the next one? Probably no bigger than the last one (Howard and Costello) did.

A big mess? They left a healthy surplus plus a substantial amount in the Future Fund.
By tomorrow, this evening's edition of '7.30' will be up on the ABC website. Have a look at the interview with Peter Costello. He answers suggestions such as you're making here, and more.
Completely captivated the usually fiery Leigh Sales if her laughter with him at the end is anything to go by.

Seeing Costello again serves as a bitter reminder of the woeful quality of today's politicians.

Or maybe he quit because they weren't listening.
Facts are facts. The hole is not caused by government spending but low tax intake. Sure they shouldn't have got themselves into this position but there you go.

Nothing to do with profligate spending by the current government?
See above comment re interview with Costello.

A budget deficit is not the only mess a country can have .... The impact of policies can be just as bad if not more severe.

1) middle class welfare.
2) first home buyers grant.

To name two. Again not necessarily bad ideas but bad implementation.

Absolutely agree. Hopefully the incoming government will have the integrity to do something about this, and the dreaded baby bonus.

 

[Calliope]

Can you give me an example of any Australian government in the last 5 years where this was the case? Any large projects?

Well Labor has been in government since 2007. So I assume you mean State Governments. The major states NSW , Vic. and Qld are still reeling from the depredations of the outgoing Labor governments. Tasmania is a Green/Labor basket case and WA is going full steam ahead.

I suggest you do your own homework on large state projects.

 

[sptrawler]

Can you give me an example of any Australian government in the last 5 years where this was the case? Any large projects?



You might be able to adjust your budget every few minutes, the government works at quarterly and half yearly basis. They can't react that quickly ...



Well then we vote them out ...

That is such a limp response, I can't be bothered researching the answers. However, Federally they will be trashed.
In most States, they don't want federal politics i.e Labor involved.
So my guess is most people think they are $hit, maybe your right and everyone else is wrong.

 

[FlyingFox]

Well Labor has been in government since 2007. So I assume you mean State Governments. The major states NSW , Vic. and Qld are still reeling from the depredations of the outgoing Labor governments. Tasmania is a Green/Labor basket case and WA is going full steam ahead.

I suggest you do your own homework on large state projects.

Can you give me an example of a large WA government project that was completed on time, on budget and without stuff ups?

I was talking about the any large projects in Oz not just governments, we have had a lot of cost blowouts due to the "mining boom"

 

[sptrawler]

Can you give me an example of a large WA government project that was completed on time, on budget and without stuff ups?

I was talking about the any large projects in Oz not just governments, we have had a lot of cost blowouts due to the "mining boom"

I think the Fiona Stanley hospital, was completed fairly well on budget and on time, correct me if I'm wrong.

Also I believe the 'Raffles Towers' development, was completed without disruption.lol

 

[FlyingFox]

That is such a limp response, I can't be bothered researching the answers. However, Federally they will be trashed.
In most States, they don't want federal politics i.e Labor involved.
So my guess is most people think they are $hit, maybe your right and everyone else is wrong.

Excuse me!?

Did I at any point say that Labor is a great government? Did I even say I was going to vote for them?

My points have only been to show that at least some of the great incompetency arguments that are leveled at them are more deep seated. This has implication for any future government, competent or otherwise and the general populace.

When this or the next government will try and change the tax or benefits, everyone will be up in arms about it. All I am trying to do is understand the economics beyond the politics and not follow everyone else how have picked their sides and is chucking mud at the other side!

 

[sptrawler]

Excuse me!?

Did I at any point say that Labor is a great government? Did I even say I was going to vote for them?

My points have only been to show that at least some of the great incompetency arguments that are leveled at them are more deep seated. This has implication for any future government, competent or otherwise and the general populace.

When this or the next government will try and change the tax or benefits, everyone will be up in arms about it. All I am trying to do is understand the economics beyond the politics and not follow everyone else how have picked their sides and is chucking mud at the other side!

I'm not chucking mud, just amazed at the lack of perception by the government.
I've being saying it for five years. They are goons, they have played with the economy and it has got out of control.
All their policies have backfired, all their revenue taxes are duds, one has to wonder if someone hasn't been paid off. How could it have ended this bad?IMO