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Tony Abbott for PM

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sptrawler said:
+1 the government are just waiting for the coalitions policies to be announced.IMO Then the 'me too' campaign will really get into gear.
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And the closer to the election the coalition wait to bring out their policies, the more obvious it will be that labor are playing copy cat with them.

I think this is why the left are so desperately trying to goad the coalition into releasing their policies long before the election as it gives them more time to muddy the waters and to pull apart what they don't want to copy.

And, of course, every attempt by the left is used to try and unsettle coalition voters and this thing on policy is one of them, imo. The other is the massive attempt to vilify Abbott and get Turnbull back in so there will be no election campaign against the divisive carbon tax.

I'm not so sure that the carbon tax has become a non-issue. Our last power bill rose significantly from the same quarter the previous year and the only thing that changed was carbon tax. I noticed quite a few prices rises after July 1st with no mention of tax, but most Aussies would question carbon tax in their own minds as to why those price rises occurred.

In our case, the tax is potentially costing a few hundred p.a. It seems the furore has died down, but I think the baseball bats are waiting for the election.
 
Even if the electorate accepted the carbon tax in itself, it will never accept the way it was introduced.

That pushed the abuse of no taxation without representation too far and goes to the heart of the biggest problem with this government, trust.
 
noco said:
Yes Mr. Burns you are right.

I made a comment in the middle of last year when Brown retired that the Greens had reached their peak and I believe I am spot on. They are now in decline and going down fast.
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Bob Brown was a nice bloke, smiled well for the cameras and launched the basic direction for the times.

However he was not big on organising outside of his own interests, and lets face it till the last few years had no fellow support in Parliament.

Milne is tough, very well organised, does not suffer fools and behind the scene the Greens are changing into a well oiled machine for the difficulties of the future. All members are canvassed and able to be involved in all matters of policy, structure (recently we were even given options of choice on how the leader should be elected) and its constitution, State and Federal. (strewth try that with Libs or ALP)

The Press steer away from Milne as she refuses to make statements on the crap they seek. The Greens (as they are in Local Govt) are working forward with people on the ground, computer networking, education and spreading by involvement in new cleaner and more efficient ways to do things. A big growth area toward green is the 15 to 30 year age group and in a few short years this will count.

So the next election, dah dah de dum, not too bothered as there is yet no good choice but the Greens will hold firm to gaining ground IMHO

But Abbott, he has the Libs leg roped to the side of the stalls.
 
explod said:
Milne is tough, very well organised, does not suffer fools and behind the scene the Greens are changing into a well oiled machine for the difficulties of the future.
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How would our economy and quality of life (both yours and mine) look without the coal industry she would like to see destroyed ?
 
drsmith said:
How would our economy and quality of life (both yours and mine) look without the coal industry she would like to see destroyed ?
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Explod's alright - he pedals a bike for power (I think!). But whether he gives a thought to the rest of the country's population who are not able to have his pedalling set up or solar power, I don't know. Too bad about people like kidney dialysis patients who need power to survive.

And why should we return to the dark ages? Australia emits around 1% of global co2 so even if we used no electricity and all stopped breathing, we would only reduce global co2 by about 1%...
 

Oh yeah, tell all that to the marines.
 
sails said:
Explod's alright - he pedals a bike for power (I think!). But whether he gives a thought to the rest of the country's population who are not able to have his pedalling set up or solar power, I don't know.
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Even that requires scarring the skin of mother Gaia and non-renewable energy to extract the required raw materials and manufacture the bike and solar panels.

That though can be done on that bit of Gaia called China, and elsewhere.
 
drsmith said:
How would our economy and quality of life (both yours and mine) look without the coal industry she would like to see destroyed ?
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Well my friend that is what we need to face. And I could do it, in fact on the way in toying with new concepts of survival. Many are going to die but many will survive by following new ways out of the armchair and away from the tellie.

In fact I could live on the land as the indigenous did here before man came.
 
explod said:
In fact I could live on the land as the indigenous did here before man came.
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That takes the prize for the most fatuous statement since Jenny Macklin's clanger.

You'd find it pretty cold with no clothes, and as you would still be a Greenie I guess, not killing and eating any native fauna. So while you might live "on the land" for a few days, you couldn't live off the land.
 

Excuse me as part of survival exercises many years ago I have and still could.

Rabbits, yams, various leaf. A small fire against a bank away from the wind.

However I do not advocate extremes, we have to be practical. But we will have to make big changes whether we like it or not in my view. Huge numbers are learning to live on the streets of New York now.

In fact have been preparing for a long time as shown here:-

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...AXwl4CoDQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDcQsAQ&biw=1215&bih=939
 
How many people could the land support under that kind of hunter gatherer society ?

Like me, you might be one of the people that would have to leave.
 

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drsmith said:
How many people could the land support under that kind of hunter gatherer society ?

Like me, you might be one of the people that would have to leave.
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Agree, and a lot of so called productivity comes from millions of people at computers trading against each other. How long for I wonder ??
 
explod said:
Rabbits, yams, various leaf. A small fire against a bank away from the wind.
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Doesn't it worry you that rabbits are an introduced species, or put another way, vermin ?

If you were consistent in your philosophy, you would argue that rabbits should be eliminated with the same passion that coal should stay in the ground.
 
explod said:
Agree, and a lot of so called productivity comes from millions of people at computers trading against each other. How long for I wonder ??
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But where would we go ?

Where in the world is there space for additional people to live as hunter gatherers ?

Prior to cultivation, the population of hunter gatherers was in broad balance with nature and we had allready expanded to all habitable continents. Since then, our population has exploded.

We could well end up being the the vast majority that would have to be eliminated.
 
drsmith said:
Doesn't it worry you that rabbits are an introduced species, or put another way, vermin ?

If you were consistent in your philosophy, you would argue that rabbits should be eliminated with the same passion that coal should stay in the ground.
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That is the way of it. The ancient Mayans found their way to South America from the bridge at the top of the planet too. Bees are dying due to diseases from overseas, we now have fruit fly in Victoria. And we could go on endlessly.

On the indigenous in Southern Victoria the evidence suggests that they would have died out there in another generation after Buckley. Maori's in NZ certainly on the way and Easter Island they did.

Unfortunately we have to live with the mistakes of the past and move on. We will have to use cars and the materials available now, but what of the future for survival.

It will of course be a combination of the wealthiest and the fittest.

Abbott, not sure how he fits here.
 
explod said:
Excuse me as part of survival exercises many years ago I have and still could.
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In one sence I admire you for being able to do that.

In the broader context though, it is neither practical nor personally desirable for us as a species to return to anything that even vaguely resembles that lifestyle.

The answer for us as a species is to establish new and much greater sources of energy. It's a vast universe out there. We still have other problems to overcome such as equality of basic living standards, but bringing the majority of us down to a similar level as the Greens would advocate is not the answer.

We, like any other species will be lazy if it's an option. A social safety net is necessary, but not the level of socialism that the Greens advocate. Motivation is an essential ingredient to progress, both at an individual and group level. The more socialism there is, the less motivated a society becomes and the less progress it makes. In the end, no one benefits from that.
 
explod said:
Excuse me as part of survival exercises many years ago I have and still could.
Rabbits, yams, various leaf. A small fire against a bank away from the wind.
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You said you could live like indigenous people did before "man." I assume you meant white man. Well rabbits are out...they were introduced. Yams are out...no native yams south of sub-tropics.

So I get this picture of a naked Plod huddled over his small fire munching leaves.
 

Did you open up and have a look at the portable street home ole Pal.

Anything will be in as it is among some of those starving overseas.

Introduced species all the better, put em to work Champ.

And having always enjoyed a seefood diet there will be no worries.
 
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