The world is going broke

[nioka]

A basic difference is that the essentials to basic survival are state run. E.g water, power, education and health care. .

The problem we face in Australia is that even the Labor parliament are hell bound on selling all public assets. Electricity is going. Roads are becoming toll roads. Water rights being sold to overseas investors is going to come back to haunt us one day. Hospitals are underfunded and aged care is a disgrace.

The only socialists are the greens and they are the "close down everything" party. If they get any more power then learn how to starve in a grass hut. You certainly wouldnt be able to live off the land as it would be all protected and locked up.

 

[wayneL]

Explod

You are suffering cognitive dissonance.

Sweden is a mixed economy, not a socialist economy.

 

[explod]

Explod

You are suffering cognitive dissonance.

Sweden is a mixed economy, not a socialist economy.

Run on socialist lines but few want to conceed that, they would soon scream communists if we tried to nationalise the utilities here.

But even if as you say "mixed", it is a far cry from our own road down the Thatcher path. Love her great line, "business will regulate itself as people are basically honest"

Ho Ho Ho B Ho

But I do suffer from dyslexia, is it something like that? But often unsure of the right way.

 

[Smurf1976]

That's not entirely true. Efficient markets are required to ensure efficient allocation of labour. It's necessary for someone in London to connect an Australian coffee maker with a Brazillian coffee grower in an efficient way - say through commodity markets, rather than have individual representatives from each buyer go over there to face cartels, or buying cartels like Woolworths force lower prices off starving farmers.

Likewise, if China can produce widgets cheaper than Korea, then the finance people can make sure China gets more capital and raw materials than Korea through forex, capital markets and commodity markets.

However, there can be too much of a good thing, when self-reinforcing speculation distort prices, and misdirects labour efforts.

We are in a period of "too much of a good thing".

Indeed. The financial markets do have a valid role in facilitating business. But when the market itself becomes the dominant focus of just about everything then that's going way too far.

Witness the decline of bees and the Russian drought as examples. Media reports mention that they might have an impact on prices, followed by comment from some trader or broker. No mention anywhere that humans might starve or, if bees disappear, become extinct altogether.

It's equally ridiculous when a rise in unemployment, a bad thing, is seen as "good" and sends markets up because it might lead to central banks printing a few more $ out of thin air. Personally, I fail to see how evidence of a faltering economy is "good" for business whether or not it is good for the markets.

Nothing wrong with markets per se. But they aren't the meaning of life...

 

[explod]

It's equally ridiculous when a rise in unemployment, a bad thing, is seen as "good" and sends markets up because it might lead to central banks printing a few more $ out of thin air. Personally, I fail to see how evidence of a faltering economy is "good" for business whether or not it is good for the markets.

Well its stops the wondering, any real news removes the uncertainty so is positive if someone says so. Sentiment does the rest, its time to party because its all over anyway.

 

[wayneL]

Run on socialist lines but few want to conceed that, they would soon scream communists if we tried to nationalise the utilities here.

But even if as you say "mixed", it is a far cry from our own road down the Thatcher path. Love her great line, "business will regulate itself as people are basically honest"

Ho Ho Ho B Ho

But I do suffer from dyslexia, is it something like that? But often unsure of the right way.

Thatcher had faults, but it should never be forgotten that the conservatives under Thatcher pulled the UK from being the sick man of Europe to a thriving modern economy, with a normal business cycle...

...only to have the Labour heathen take it back to the sick man of Europe again.

 

[explod]

Thatcher had faults, but it should never be forgotten that the conservatives under Thatcher pulled the UK from being the sick man of Europe to a thriving modern economy, with a normal business cycle...

...only to have the Labour heathen take it back to the sick man of Europe again.

Of course deregulation, stimulas and tax relief to the big players to burn does do it. You only have to take a look at the 20 year dow and line it up with the fundamental shifts of monetary policies to see why. I'm just saying the illness is now so terminal that no amount of the usual medicine is going to help anymore. Notice gold and silver rising around the clock at the moment, a bad sign.

 

[Smurf1976]

Thatcher had faults, but it should never be forgotten that the conservatives under Thatcher pulled the UK from being the sick man of Europe to a thriving modern economy, with a normal business cycle...

...only to have the Labour heathen take it back to the sick man of Europe again.

How much of that was really due to Thatcher? And how much was due to having a fortune coming in from the North Sea oil and gas boom?

Time will tell how well the UK economy does as North Sea oil and gas production declines. I doubt they're going to do overly well however as a country almost totally dependent on imported energy, a situation which in itself is part of the Thatcher legacy (ie shut down the coal industry and halt the growth of nuclear).

I don't doubt that some good did occur in those years, but I do think the energy boom which coincided has lead to an overstating of the gains elsewhere in the economy.

 

[wayneL]

Of course deregulation, stimulas and tax relief to the big players to burn does do it. You only have to take a look at the 20 year dow and line it up with the fundamental shifts of monetary policies to see why. I'm just saying the illness is now so terminal that no amount of the usual medicine is going to help anymore. Notice gold and silver rising around the clock at the moment, a bad sign.

But that is nothing to do with Thatcher. The damage in anglo saxon economies was in subverting the business cycle starting in 2001, after Thatcher was finished.

 

[Smurf1976]

Well its stops the wondering, any real news removes the uncertainty so is positive if someone says so. Sentiment does the rest, its time to party because its all over anyway.

I understand what you are saying, but it is a sad reflection on society's obsession with paper wealth that rising unemployment is often seen as "good" by many people these days.

 

[explod]

But that is nothing to do with Thatcher. The damage in anglo saxon economies was in subverting the business cycle starting in 2001, after Thatcher was finished.

She did I admit preside over some great things, least of which was the fall of the ion curtain.

But she did advocate too much faith in the good of human nature.

Thats almost as naive as you slot me.

 

[wayneL]

How much of that was really due to Thatcher? And how much was due to having a fortune coming in from the North Sea oil and gas boom?

Time will tell how well the UK economy does as North Sea oil and gas production declines. I doubt they're going to do overly well however as a country almost totally dependent on imported energy, a situation which in itself is part of the Thatcher legacy (ie shut down the coal industry and halt the growth of nuclear).

I don't doubt that some good did occur in those years, but I do think the energy boom which coincided has lead to an overstating of the gains elsewhere in the economy.

Every little helps. But many economies have something to underpin their success; what matters is how it is capitalized on.

e.g. China has always had the resources it has, however it is only a change of policy by the central (no longer truly communist... or even socialist) government which has made the difference over recent years.

 

[explod]

I understand what you are saying, but it is a sad reflection on society's obsession with paper wealth that rising unemployment is often seen as "good" by many people these days.

Could not agree more smurf, it is dog eat dog and every man for himself.

My obsession on the forums is to be a devils advocate so that we may all learn to think of others. It goes with being a Grandfather, we may not be able to change the world at all but we must all keep trying

 

[Peak Debt]

Going broke, absolutely, the world runs on credit. Peak debt here we come.

Peak everything really............ oil, water, food, minerals, population

The world needs a major change of direction to get through this

I fear we'll wait until its too late and then learn the hard way.

 

[Julia]

My obsession on the forums is to be a devils advocate so that we may all learn to think of others. It goes with being a Grandfather, we may not be able to change the world at all but we must all keep trying

I understand your idealistic approach, explod, but respectfully suggest at times it reduces your capacity to realistically appreciate what may and may not be achieved.

Just curious: has this philosophy always been yours, even when you were a policeman, or has it evolved amongst the epiphany of having grandchildren?

 

[trainspotter]

Going broke, absolutely, the world runs on credit. Peak debt here we come.

Peak everything really............ oil, water, food, minerals, population

The world needs a major change of direction to get through this

I fear we'll wait until its too late and then learn the hard way.

Jump off the cliff now and avoid the rush before it is too late!

 

[explod]

I understand your idealistic approach, explod, but respectfully suggest at times it reduces your capacity to realistically appreciate what may and may not be achieved.

Just curious: has this philosophy always been yours, even when you were a policeman, or has it evolved amongst the epiphany of having grandchildren?

Since my own childhood. In fact as a cop I was a round peg in a square hole and was pleased when I took early age retirment. Having said that I was a good cop and part of hugely successful community policing progammes that did help people at the grass roots. Pity they lost that on the arrival of Kennett.

Idealism be damned Julia, the world is much worse than you imagine and can assure you I have been there. Not sure that you understand me at all.

Must get that gobbledygook thread going, never seems to be time for proper exaplanations.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I've got some very nice tulips for sale if anyone would like to buy some, before they go broke.

At least with a tulip, one can admire its beauty.

Money is just common coin, grubby notes or numbers on a screen.

$1000 for one. $3000 for two. Come one , come all.

gg

 

[doogie_goes_off]

Peak Oil - I disagree
Peak Agriculture - I disagree
Peak Minerals - I disagree
Peak Population - Nowhere near it yet

Peak pessimism - agreed
Peak Scepticism of Peaks - not a chance

There are positives:
Peak Recycling
Peak Standard of Living
Peak Employment
Peak Migrant Magnet

Don't peek into the future too early or we'll peak too early

 

[Sdajii]

Peak Oil - I disagree
Peak Agriculture - I disagree
Peak Minerals - I disagree
Peak Population - Nowhere near it yet

Peak pessimism - agreed
Peak Scepticism of Peaks - not a chance

There are positives:
Peak Recycling
Peak Standard of Living
Peak Employment
Peak Migrant Magnet

Don't peek into the future too early or we'll peak too early

I disagree with you about peak oil, agriculture and population - I think we're close to those three... not sure about minerals, but anyway, even if you're right, this makes no sense.

Assuming we're not at peak oil, peak soil, etc, how can we be at peak recycling and how could that be a good thing? How the heck can peak standard of living and employment be good things? Wouldn't they be incredibly bad things?