The West has lost its freedom of speech

Julia · 12 January 2015

Tisme said:
I think the ABC has probably been too high brow for many of Howard's Battlers to concern themselves with first hand viewing... they have Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones to tell them what to think and complain of the ABC.

Too high brow??? That's patronising and rather insulting.

And I think you quite wrongly categorise so pejoratively the huge group of people that were designated "Howard's battlers". It wasn't a term, at the time, used to describe ill-educated, culturally illiterate people which is what you suggest when you say the ABC is too high brow for them, but rather as a recognition of decent ordinary people who do their best to hold down a job, pay their taxes and raise a family. People who deserved just as much of a chance in life as those with multiple degrees and a uniform adoration of David Williamson's plays and Peter Carey's novels.

Plenty of these people would no more listen to Bolt and Jones than would you or I.

Macquack said:
I doubt that blacks use the "N" word amongst themselves?

Contradiction of this already posted.
Similarly 'spic' for Latinos.

There seems to be a peculiar custom of it being OK for specific groups to use terms amongst themselves that would be considered grievous insults from a different group.
One of the most common is in discussions by homosexuals on their activity. They frequently refer to themselves as 'queers'. I can just imagine the outcry if any heterosexual used such a term.

The whole PC thing on language can be taken to silly extremes. Many years ago now there was some sporting ground or stadium, I think in Toowoomba, which had always been known as the "****** Brown Stadium", having been named after one of the town's favourite sons known always only as ****** Brown.

Some aboriginal activist created all sorts of fuss with his objections to the name. I can't now remember whether it was ever changed.

Likewise, Coon Cheese. It was a well known brand name long before any of the PC stuff occurred.

I'm completely against insulting others gratuitously, but do get impatient and bored with what is just silliness.

PS I've just read the above post when it's up and note that asterisks appear where I typed the obvious word. Just want to be clear that I intended the original word.
That it is not allowed to appear, in the context of this discussion, is imo a further piece of PC gone nuts.

Calliope · 12 January 2015

Julia said:
PS I've just read the above post when it's up and note that asterisks appear where I typed the obvious word. Just want to be clear that I intended the original word.
That it is not allowed to appear, in the context of this discussion, is imo a further piece of PC gone nuts.

If you use "nigga" it will pass the test.

Tisme · 12 January 2015

Calliope said:
If you use "nigga" it will pass the test.

niggÃ©r

Tisme · 12 January 2015

Julia said:
Too high brow??? That's patronising and rather insulting.

And I think you quite wrongly categorise so pejoratively the huge group of people that were designated "Howard's battlers". It wasn't a term, at the time, used to describe ill-educated, culturally illiterate people which is what you suggest when you say the ABC is too high brow for them, but rather as a recognition of decent ordinary people who do their best to hold down a job, pay their taxes and raise a family. People who deserved just as much of a chance in life as those with multiple degrees and a uniform adoration of David Williamson's plays and Peter Carey's novels.

.

Well I hear what you are saying Julia, but most of the people I know who are Howards battlers don't watch the ABC because they think it's high brow. I'm not sure where you get your data from, but mine is just anecdotal I'm afraid.

luutzu · 12 January 2015

Macquack said:
You're just a white honky, Calliope. I am allowed to say that because I am part of the target group.

Funny story about name calling, which our PM seem to think is quite acceptable re ISIL and Daesh... anyway back in HS an Asian friend of mine was arguing with a White Aussie - the guy call him stupid nip, he call him dumb skip.

After they walk away I ask my friend what's a nip and he said "I don't know. Sounds like a bad word." So what's "skip"? "I don't know either, but it seems to p!ss him off for some reason."

Joe Blow · 12 January 2015

I think it's possible to discuss racial slurs and other offensive terms without actually posting them. There's a reason why certain words are automatically censored when they are posted and that's because these terms are inherently offensive to a lot of people, and I don't think it's reasonable that they be confronted by obscenities or deeply offensive terms when they visit ASF.

Those visiting ASF represent a very diverse range of ages and sensitivities and I feel that it's my responsibility to respect that.

Calliope · 12 January 2015

Tisme said:
Well I hear what you are saying Julia, but most of the people I know who are Howards battlers don't watch the ABC because they think it's high brow. I'm not sure where you get your data from, but mine is just anecdotal I'm afraid.

So you have anecdotal evidence from "Howard battlers" that you know, that they don't watch the ABC because it is too highbrow. How many of these ill-educated, culturally illiterate "Howard battlers" have you discussed this with?

I suggest your anecdotal evidence is a crock.

Value Collector · 13 January 2015

Bintang said:
If you are so free to use it then why do you spell the word using a # symbol.

Two reasons,

1, I wanted to get my message across, and didn't want it to be censored with ******, and have no one know what I am talking about.

2, I understand it is a word that offends some people so choose not to use it.

I think you misunderstood my point, my point is you are free to use the word, no one will arrest you, but that doesn't mean it wont offend people, and it doesn't mean you wont suffer consequences for using it.

Value Collector · 13 January 2015

Calliope said:
I've no idea, but under Sharia law they would have been.

It's not the law that stops them...it's PC

Is it PC that stops even our brave VC from putting the word in plain English? Yes it is.

You and basillio seem a bit confused about the meaning of Political Correctness VC. It has nothing to do with the law. It's about rules.

Political Correctness is;

It is very selective about "particular groups".POLITICAL Correctness has no problem with satirising the leaders of other religions e.g. the Pope, the Queen, the Dalai Lama or Jesus Christ but it puts a protective shield around the prophet Mohammed.

Political correctness is

the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.

Its a choice, you are not forced to be politically correct, it's whether you choose to be or not.

As I explained there was a practical reason for me not saying the N word in full, as well as a social reason, I have no reason to offend that group at the moment.

You can say what ever you like about the prophet Muhammed, no one is stopping you. Thats freedom of speech, what you don't understand is that if other people with to refrain from saying things, then that is them exercising their freedom of speech.

Value Collector · 13 January 2015

Julia said:
There seems to be a peculiar custom of it being OK for specific groups to use terms amongst themselves that would be considered grievous insults from a different group.
One of the most common is in discussions by homosexuals on their activity. They frequently refer to themselves as 'queers'. I can just imagine the outcry if any heterosexual used such a term.

Thats pretty much universally true, groups often take names that were once used against them and call themselves that.

It's not un common to her soldiers refer to themselves and other solders as "AJ's" or just "J's", but if I civilian called a group of soldiers that in a derogatory tone, they may find the situation gets a bit punchy.

i guess it comes down to intent, there is a big difference between a mate calling you something, and some A'hole you don't know intentionally trying to get a rise out of you.

Bintang · 13 January 2015

Value Collector said:
Two reasons,

1, I wanted to get my message across, and didn't want it to be censored with ******, and have no one know what I am talking about.

2, I understand it is a word that offends some people so choose not to use it.

I think you misunderstood my point, my point is you are free to use the word, no one will arrest you, but that doesn't mean it wont offend people, and it doesn't mean you wont suffer consequences for using it.

Of course I understand and the reality is that we are NOT free to use the word. You censored yourself and if you hadn't Joe would have instead. So pc wins the day.

Here is a test: Je suis ******.

Bintang · 13 January 2015

Bintang said:
Of course I understand and the reality is that we are NOT free to use the word. You censored yourself and if you hadn't Joe would have instead. So pc wins the day.

Here is a test: Je suis ******.

As I expected. Instantaneous censorship.

Value Collector · 13 January 2015

Bintang said:
Of course I understand and the reality is that we are NOT free to use the word. You censored yourself and if you hadn't Joe would have instead. So pc wins the day.

Here is a test: Je suis ******.

It's Joes website, He is free to do what he likes in regards to moderation.

But as I said, you are free to do what you like on your own website or publication. No one is stopping you saying what you like on your own website.

Calliope · 13 January 2015

Value Collector said:
Its a choice, you are not forced to be politically correct, it's whether you choose to be or not.

And you do of course.

You can say what ever you like about the prophet Muhammed, no one is stopping you. Thats freedom of speech

But you can't publish a caricacture of him. That's not freedom of speech...it's PC

what you don't understand is that if other people with to refrain from saying things, then that is them exercising their freedom of speech.

Huh??? Keeping your mouth shut is exercising your freedom of speech? I'm afraid you've blown what little credibility you had VC.

Value Collector · 13 January 2015

Calliope said:
But you can't publish a caricacture of him. That's not freedom of speech...it's PC

Who said?

as far as I am aware nothing is stopping you from publishing a cartoon of Muhammad.

Huh??? Keeping your mouth shut is exercising your freedom of speech? I'm afraid you've blown what little credibility you had VC.:rolleyes

Yes, If I choose to never use the N word in public ever again, then that is my right, and part of my free speech. Free speech is not about just saying what you want, its also about not being forced to say things.

If I choose to not be offensive that's my right, just as much as it's your right to be offensive.

You have the right to publish a picture of Muhammad if you choose, but others also have the right to not publish a picture if they choose.

Tisme · 13 January 2015

Calliope said:
So you have anecdotal evidence from "Howard battlers" that you know, that they don't watch the ABC because it is too highbrow. How many of these ill-educated, culturally illiterate "Howard battlers" have you discussed this with?

I suggest your anecdotal evidence is a crock.

It's you and another that are putting the "ill-educated, culturally illiterate" tag on those people... you obviously have a low regard for Howard's Battlers and therefore don't mix with them. You have also demonstrated on many occasion your low regard for most members on this board by your dismissive superior reach on all things and verballing.

I think you should apologise to those "ill-educated, culturally illiterate" people for the slur, or is that beneath you?

Tisme · 13 January 2015

Value Collector said:
As I explained there was a practical reason for me not saying the N word in full, as well as a social reason, I have no reason to offend that group at the moment.

.

Yes but we all know what you meant, which is just as upsetting to a sensitive person. I think it's a shame we have to modify our behaviours to appease another nation's shame, but then again it is good manners to show some constraint with the context of it's use. On this occasion we were not objectifying the word.

I think a lot of the sting has gone out of many words....facebook and twitter has seen to that, plus saturation by ABC and M rated movies.

If people like Cassius Clay had there way back in the day, "boy" would have become an offensive word too and Moonface would be a hate beacon for American liberals for daring to use the word in polite company, let alone a national audience. Michael Parkinson also lost a friend in the boxer when Ali started up on him too.

Calliope · 13 January 2015

Tisme said:
It's you and another that are putting the "ill-educated, culturally illiterate" tag on those people... you obviously have a low regard for Howard's Battlers and therefore don't mix with them.

I'm afraid the Howard battlers you mix with and despise are a product of you imagination.

You have also demonstrated on many occasion your low regard for most members on this board by your dismissive superior reach on all things and verballing.

OH...THE IRONY!!!

I think you should apologise to those "ill-educated, culturally illiterate" people for the slur, or is that beneath you?

If you actually know any of these people, who you consider too low-brow to watch the ABC, would it beneath a superior being such as yourself to apologise to them?

SirRumpole · 13 January 2015

Value Collector said:
It's not un common to her soldiers refer to themselves and other solders as "AJ's" or just "J's", but if I civilian called a group of soldiers that in a derogatory tone, they may find the situation gets a bit punchy.

What does the expression "AJ" mean in the context of soldiers ?

Tisme · 13 January 2015

Calliope said:
I'm afraid the Howard battlers you mix with and despise are a product of you imagination.

OH...THE IRONY!!!

If you actually know any of these people, who you consider too low-brow to watch the ABC, would it beneath a superior being such as yourself to apologise to them?

Once again verballing members. Low brow does not translate into the slurs you obviously and thuggishly enjoy attaching to others. I suspect you gain pleasure in distortion so you can maintain the charade of perspicacity; you ain't that clever, trust me. Your high horse is imagined IMO

The West has lost its freedom of speech

Julia

In Memoriam

Calliope

Tisme

Apathetic at Best

Tisme

Apathetic at Best

luutzu

Joe Blow

Administrator

Calliope

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

Bintang

Bintang

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

Calliope

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

Tisme

Apathetic at Best

Tisme

Apathetic at Best

Calliope

SirRumpole

Tisme

Apathetic at Best

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