The West has lost its freedom of speech

SirRumpole · 12 January 2015

Value Collector said:
However we should all be immune from violent assault, the cartoonist drawings even if they were bigoted did not justify the attack.

Correct, but the question isn't about whether cartoonists deserve to die, of course they don't, it's about how people perceive whether cartoonists are bigoted or not.

People are more likely to believe they are bigoted if the cartoons make fun of something near to their heart, eg their own religion or sexuality, whereas others can sit back and laugh because they have no "skin in the game" about the subject of the cartoons.

So bigotry is unlikely to be something we can all agree on I would think.

Value Collector · 12 January 2015

Calliope said:
PC has put an effective ban on caricaturing or satirising mohammed the prophet.The various news media's PC policy will not even allow a reprint of previous caricatures. PC in the west is working hand in glove with the radical islamists.

Were the cartoonists in France in danger of being arrested or jailed?

If the Sydney morning herald reprinted the cartoons, would the Australian Government shut them down?

Offcourse not.

The editors of the Sydney morning herald may not want to publish them to protect their staff from illegal attacks, But they are free to do it, Just like a woman is free to walk home alone at night, she may not want to because of fear of being raped, But she has the right to do it.

You have the right to call a person a N#gger or use the word N#gger, But it is also the right of others to criticise you for being insensitive, or not want to be around you, or ask that you don't use that around them, or not call them that, or not use it while you work for them.

It's not politically correct to use the word N#gger, but you are free to use it.

basilio said:
Callioppe do you actually believe the stuff you post ? And of course it is always interesting to see the full picture rather than a chopped version.

I have to say so much of it is just nonsense and lies. I know that because I often (tediously) follow it back to source and cross check it.

Have you ever considered some people on the internet might not tell the truth ? Indeed they might not even care... just as long as they can trash a person/idea/organisation they don't like.

+1

Value Collector · 12 January 2015

SirRumpole said:
So bigotry is unlikely to be something we can all agree on I would think.

Perhaps, the definition of bigotry is.

intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.

So I guess it depends on what the intolerance is about, in general tolerance is good in society, but there are certain things that do not disserve tolerance.

Violence against children for example should not ever be tolerated, So while a stance against a people who hold an opinion in favour of violence against children might be technical bigotry, it wouldn't be the type of bigotry most people are against.

SirRumpole · 12 January 2015

Value Collector said:
Perhaps, the definition of bigotry is.

So I guess it depends on what the intolerance is about, in general tolerance is good in society, but there are certain things that do not disserve tolerance.

Violence against children for example should not ever be tolerated, So while a stance against a people who hold an opinion in favour of violence against children might be technical bigotry, it wouldn't be the type of bigotry most people are against.

Agree again, but child abuse is a criminal offence, unlike religion, and it's abhorrence is so obvious I doubt many people would argue about attacking it.

SirRumpole · 12 January 2015

Tisme said:
but in truth the bias has already been there in shows like "The Drum" with guest spots in 1011/2012 :

Very interesting. I wonder if there is data to show that this program is now more popular with Coalition voters.

I don't watch it any more, not because of the political content but there were too many self important w@nkers aguing on points of trivia for it to supply any useful information.

SirRumpole · 12 January 2015

Julia said:
I don't know that that's marginalising men but it's probably causing a bit of confusion amongst blokes in terms of just how they're supposed to behave.

Yes, and I'm one of them.

I was always told that it was a gentlemanly act to open a door for a lady, and some still appreciate it, but I wish they would wear signs saying "If you open a door for me I won't (or will) bite your head off for being sexist".

Value Collector · 12 January 2015

SirRumpole said:
Agree again, but child abuse is a criminal offence, unlike religion, and it's abhorrence is so obvious I doubt many people would argue about attacking it.

there are grey areas, take ritualistic male or female circumcision, or maybe even just non physical mental abuse of children, based around the religions, or their treatment of females.

No doubt there is a whole host of things you and I would be intolerant of, which are core beliefs of some of these religious groups.

When I attack some of these Ideas or core beliefs, the holder of those beliefs may try and charge me with bigotry. To get around this, I am always self examining my own opinions to make sure they are based on moral, rational reasoning, that can be justified through sound logical arguments, and I always take the attitude of increasing personal freedoms where possible, while protecting others rights to not be harmed.

If there are two options I always try and take the side that increases personal freedoms, but only up to the point that the personal freedom harms others, or encroaches on the freedoms of others.

Bintang · 12 January 2015

Value Collector said:
It's not politically correct to use the word N#gger, but you are free to use it

If you are so free to use it then why do you spell the word using a # symbol.

Calliope · 12 January 2015

Value Collector said:
Were the cartoonists in France in danger of being arrested or jailed?

I've no idea, but under Sharia law they would have been.

If the Sydney morning herald reprinted the cartoons, would the Australian Government shut them down?

Offcourse not.

It's not the law that stops them...it's PC

It's not politically correct to use the word N#gger, but you are free to use it.

Is it PC that stops even our brave VC from putting the word in plain English? Yes it is.

You and basillio seem a bit confused about the meaning of Political Correctness VC. It has nothing to do with the law. It's about rules.

Political Correctness is;

agreeing with the idea that people should be careful to not use language or behave in a way that could offend a particular group of people

It is very selective about "particular groups".POLITICAL Correctness has no problem with satirising the leaders of other religions e.g. the Pope, the Queen, the Dalai Lama or Jesus Christ but it puts a protective shield around the prophet Mohammed.

Tisme · 12 January 2015

SirRumpole said:
Very interesting. I wonder if there is data to show that this program is now more popular with Coalition voters.

I don't watch it any more, not because of the political content but there were too many self important w@nkers aguing on points of trivia for it to supply any useful information.

I think the ABC has probably been too high brow for many of Howard's Battlers to concern themselves with first hand viewing... they have Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones to tell them what to think and complain of the ABC.

pixel · 12 January 2015

Bintang said:
If you are so free to use it then why do you spell the word using a # symbol.

Most Forum software has a spell checker built in that replaces words deemed inappropriate for polite society by asterisks. I don't know whether ****** or black bastard are among them; it may also be up to the Forum Administrator to determine the level of acceptable language.
In any case, it's not a secret and the more experienced a poster, the more likely will he/she anticipate and use a different spelling that bypasses the need to edit afterwards.
Using a 1 for an i or @ for a are common substitutions, in cases where one feels the need to write one of those words in order to make a point.

PS: So now we know: I had spelled in plain text the "N" word and find it's been replaced by the exact number of *'s. On the other hand, it proves I no longer need to spell barstud, although I prefer that spelling to the original...

SirRumpole · 12 January 2015

pixel said:
Most Forum software has a spell checker built in that replaces words deemed inappropriate for polite society by asterisks. I don't know whether ****** or black bastard are among them; it may also be up to the Forum Administrator to determine the level of acceptable language.
In any case, it's not a secret and the more experienced a poster, the more likely will he/she anticipate and use a different spelling that bypasses the need to edit afterwards.
Using a 1 for an i or @ for a are common substitutions, in cases where one feels the need to write one of those words in order to make a point.

PS: So now we know: I had spelled in plain text the "N" word and find it's been replaced by the exact number of *'s. On the other hand, it proves I no longer need to spell barstud, although I prefer that spelling to the original...

Well there you go. Is this forum PC or just trying to maintain a balance between genuine discussion and civility ?

Personally I'm a bit miffed that you can't always say what you mean here, but if you go too far the other way it just opens the door for gratuitous foulmouths and we don't want that sort here.

Commonsense has achieved a reasonable balance imo.

Tisme · 12 January 2015

I think Bintang was making a point, using the forum word filter as an example.

Calliope · 12 January 2015

pixel said:
Most Forum software has a spell checker built in that replaces words deemed inappropriate for polite society by asterisks. I don't know whether ****** or black bastard are among them; it may also be up to the Forum Administrator to determine the level of acceptable language.

Ther is a difference between words "deemed inappropriate for polite society" and PC. When I was a boy you wouldn't have used the "F" word in front of your grandmother, but there was no problem with the "N" word, or upsetting special interest minority groups.

Now of course the "F" word is in common usage with children and their grandmothers. PC accepts the "F" words but has made the "N" word taboo. It is OK for blacks to use it among themselves but not for whitey.

Macquack · 12 January 2015

Calliope said:
Now of course the "F" word is in common usage with children and their grandmothers. PC accepts the "F" words but has made the "N" word taboo. It is OK for blacks to use it among themselves but not for whitey.

The "F" word is universal, it is not derogatory towards a certain race.

I doubt that blacks use the "N" word amongst themselves?

SirRumpole · 12 January 2015

Macquack said:
I doubt that blacks use the "N" word amongst themselves?

They don't mind using terms like "honky" to refer to whites.

Macquack · 12 January 2015

SirRumpole said:
They don't mind using terms like "honky" to refer to whites.

And yes, some white "H" word people refer to blacks as the "N" word. Is that not just "tit for tat"?

Calliope · 12 January 2015

Macquack said:
I doubt that blacks use the "N" word amongst themselves?

You'd be wrong as usual, Mac

http://africanamericanenglish.com/2010/10/22/why-black-people-can-use-the-n-word-a-perspective/

Macquack · 12 January 2015

Calliope said:
You'd be wrong as usual, Mac

You're just a white honky, Calliope. I am allowed to say that because I am part of the target group.

Calliope · 12 January 2015

Macquack said:
You're just a white honky, Calliope. I am allowed to say that because I am part of the target group.

''white honky"? That's tautoligical Mac. I despair of you ever getting anything right...sigh!

The West has lost its freedom of speech

SirRumpole

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

SirRumpole

SirRumpole

SirRumpole

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

Bintang

Calliope

Tisme

Apathetic at Best

pixel

DIY Trader

SirRumpole

Tisme

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Calliope

Macquack

SirRumpole

Macquack

Calliope

Macquack

Calliope

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