The Voice

[JohnDe]

The referendum question does not tell us what power will be given once in parliament.
We've been told that it is too complex to tell us and would muddy our understanding.
We've been told that the government of the day will have the last say by introducing one word maybe to the question.
We are told that this will not create another level of bureaucracy, it is just a voice.
We are told that this is the right thing to do, but we can't discuss our reservations and thoughts because that is wrong.
Have we been told who will represent the indigenous people in parliament when the voice is enacted?
Have we been informed on how the representatives will be elected and what the criteria is?
If a Minister is overruled by the Voice but decides to follow his/her decision, will the Voice be able to lobby other ministers or the PM to force change?
If the Minister follows the recommendation of the Voice but it is found to be wrong, will it be possible to change back?

The questions keep coming but the only answers I hear are 'it's the right thing to do. it will fix indigenous poverty, it will repair colonialism, it will bring indigenous peoples to the same levels of education, health etc'.

Mr Albanese will say Australians won't fall for appeals to fear and the 'No' campaign's 'ever more ludicrous invitations to jump at our own shadows'.​

'That's because Australians have a healthy scepticism of doomsayers, a scepticism kept in good health by memories of all the predictions offered by the Chicken Littles of the past.'​

I am keeping my 'healthy scepticism'.

The government website does an excellent job of trying to settle our fear by explaining what the Voice will and won't be able to do. My concern is that none of that has been approved or debated, this is a best-case scenario. Why can't our politicians and public service come up with a full and ready system and allow us to vote on that?

The First Nations Referendum Working Group is advising the Government on the referendum.​

​

The following are the design principles of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice agreed by the First Nations Referendum Working group.​

​

The Working Group agreed that a Voice to Parliament will be a permanent body to make representations to the Australian Parliament and the Executive Government on legislation and policy of significance to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. It will further the self-determination of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples by giving them a greater say on matters that affect them.​

​

The Voice will give independent advice to the Parliament and Government​

• The Voice would make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.
• The Voice would be able to make representations proactively.
• The Voice would be able to respond to requests for representations from the Parliament and the Executive Government.
• The Voice would have its own resources to allow it to research, develop and make representations.
• The Parliament and Executive Government should seek representations in writing from the Voice early in the development of proposed laws and policies.

The Voice will be chosen by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people based on the wishes of local communities​

• Members of the Voice would be selected by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, not appointed by the Executive Government.
• Members would serve on the Voice for a fixed period of time, to ensure regular accountability to their communities.
• To ensure cultural legitimacy, the way that members of the Voice are chosen would suit the wishes of local communities and would be determined through the post-referendum process.

​

The Voice will be representative of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, gender balanced and include youth​

• Members of the Voice would be Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander, according to the standard three part test.
• Members would be chosen from each of the states, territories and the Torres Strait Islands.
• The Voice would have specific remote representatives as well as representation for the mainland Torres Strait Islander population.
• The Voice will have balanced gender representation at the national level.

​

The Voice will be empowering, community-led, inclusive, respectful and culturally informed​

• Members of the Voice would be expected to connect with – and reflect the wishes of – their communities.
• The Voice would consult with grassroots communities and regional entities to ensure its representations are informed by their experience, including the experience of those who have been historically excluded from participation.

The Voice will be accountable and transparent​

• The Voice would be subject to standard governance and reporting requirements to ensure transparency and accountability.
• Voice members would fall within the scope of the National Anti-Corruption Commission.
• Voice members would be able to be sanctioned or removed for serious misconduct

The Voice will work alongside existing organisations and traditional structures​

• The Voice would respect the work of existing organisations.

The Voice will not have a program delivery function​

• The Voice would be able to make representations about improving programs and services, but it would not manage money or deliver services.

The Voice will not have a veto power​

 

[IFocus]

Actually plenty of high court judges chief justices have actually explained the voices limits not to mention leading constitutional experts and academics which is nothing as you have described.

How it operates is up to the government of the day and that will include how effective it is.

IT’s operations and advice will be public not like now for most agency’s.

When the Liberals get back in everyone will be able to rest easy as Mundine will be put in charge.

BYW cannot believe how out of touch he is.

 

[sptrawler]

When the Liberals get back in everyone will be able to rest easy as Mundine will be put in charge.

BYW cannot believe how out of touch he is.

Shouldn't take too long to cancel him, drop the SMH a line. ?

 

[macca]

While people cling to a 60,000 year old 'culture' they will never adapt to the modern world.

Western culture has changed with the times, music, art are mostly different from what they were before. Latin was once the pre eminent language, it's not used any more. Science has moved on from thinking the sun rotates around the earth.

While people can respect their history , it doesn't mean that their culture is any use in today's world.

I have previously mentioned that an old friend of 60 years, is an Uncle Elder on the local land council.

He was on the original Land Council in our area, at least 30 years ago, he has always believed that "his people"need to be part of modern society.

His children, who now have grandchildren, were always taught that they should work not sit around and whinge.

He had 7 kids, they became Police (Sgt), builders, mechanics, entertainers, labourers and unfortunately one got in with the wrong crowd and got into strife.

It took just one generation and two determined parents to make the change Without any help at all.

Now that there is So much money available for any Aboriginal person to go to Tafe or Uni free, in the towns and cities they can change if they want to.

Peer pressure is the biggest problem, like Warren Mundine, my friend was labelled a coconut a long time ago

 

[IFocus]

Shouldn't take too long to cancel him, drop the SMH a line. ?

Stan Grant was shutdown by the haters thats cancel culture

 

[IFocus]

Peer pressure is the biggest problem, like Warren Mundine, my friend was labelled a coconut a long time ago

Never heard that used in WA for Aboriginals

As for achievers in Broome I had the privilege of meeting Teresa Issaccs OOA look her up daughter is an GP started life in a humpy shack faced racism all her life

 

[sptrawler]

Stan Grant was shutdown by the haters thats cancel culture

Yes he was and he was cancelling Charlie's day, sounds like a beano all round, didn't watch any of it.
What a world we live in, everyone is bitching about something and the tax payer just keeps trundling away in the hamster wheel. ?

 

[sptrawler]

Never heard that used in WA for Aboriginals

As for achievers in Broome I had the privilege of meeting Teresa Issaccs OOA look her up daughter is an GP started life in a humpy shack faced racism all her life

There is about 200 remote communities in W.A, the real problem is support services for so may, everyone is spread very thin. So getting any sort of education, other than over the air is difficult, it is great to hear success stories.
A mate of mine did an apprenticeship as a welder when I did mine as a sparkie, he didn't face racism got on well with everyone, still a member of a SW motorcycle riders club, not all aboriginals face racism, mostly those who look for it I've found.
Have a read of Graeme 'Polly' Farmers story, if you want a success story.

 

[wayneL]

Stan Grant was shutdown by the haters thats cancel culture

Stan welched out. He quit. That's not cancel culture, that's being a manchild

 

[macca]

Never heard that used in WA for Aboriginals

As for achievers in Broome I had the privilege of meeting Teresa Issaccs OOA look her up daughter is an GP started life in a humpy shack faced racism all her life

Another wonderful story of resilience and eventual success is this bloke, I read his book from the library and a great read

Dr Robert Francis Isaacs AM, OAM, PhD (Hon) has spent his life bridging the divide between white and black Australia. Taken from his mother as a baby, Robert was raised in institutions not knowing he had a family and not knowing he was Aboriginal.

Two Cultures, One Story

Buy Two Cultures, One Story by Dr Robert Isaacs from Booktopia. Get a discounted Paperback from Australia's leading online bookstore.

www.booktopia.com.au

 

[IFocus]

There is about 200 remote communities in W.A, the real problem is support services for so may, everyone is spread very thin. So getting any sort of education, other than over the air is difficult, it is great to hear success stories.
A mate of mine did an apprenticeship as a welder when I did mine as a sparkie, he didn't face racism got on well with everyone, still a member of a SW motorcycle riders club, not all aboriginals face racism, mostly those who look for it I've found.
Have a read of Graeme 'Polly' Farmers story, if you want a success story.

Most of the money seems to be spent in towns everyone driving Landcruisers big culture centers everywhere communities don’t seem to get a look in.
Until you get culture acceptance and inclusion the so called success stories will be few

 

[JohnDe]

“culture acceptance”, wow I haven’t heard that term for decades. I’m struggling to think of anyone that doesn’t accept different cultures in this day and age.

 

[sptrawler]

Most of the money seems to be spent in towns everyone driving Landcruisers big culture centers everywhere communities don’t seem to get a look in.
Until you get culture acceptance and inclusion the so called success stories will be few

The problem is the indigenous that want to live in remote and very remote communities, don't want to live like their ancestors, they want first world services.
That is very, very, very expensive and also extremely difficult to provide, it would be easy if they just were happy to live as their ancestors did, no problem, but they don't. So the service providers can charge what they like, no one at the receiving end has an accounting degree, they just want power 24/7 and diesel to run it and water etc.
The end result from all this IMO, is just about finding another way of funding it, without all the rigmarole, time will tell.
Which ever way it goes it isn't going to change the situation, it's just going to cost more, lucky the taxpayer is so far in personal debt they don't have enough time to think things through, just chuck another brick in their back pack. ?

Here is a map of a few of them, as I said W.A has 200 on their own:

Remote Aboriginal communities

Working together to improve the lives of Aboriginal people living in remote communities and town-based communities.

www.wa.gov.au

Working together to improve the lives of Aboriginal people living in remote communities and town-based communities. About 12,000 people live in more than 200 remote Aboriginal communities throughout Western Australia.25 July 2022

 

[SirRumpole]

I just saw an aboriginal activist talking about the indigenous incarceration rate.

The way she was going on , it was everyone's fault apart from the people who actually committed the crimes.

Unless there is some leadership from the elders talking to their own people and getting them to mend their ways by laying off the grog and treating their partners and children properly, then I don't think talking to the suits in Canberra will have much effect

 

[sptrawler]

I just saw an aboriginal activist talking about the indigenous incarceration rate.

The way she was going on , it was everyone's fault apart from the people who actually committed the crimes.

Unless there is some leadership from the elders talking to their own people and getting them to mend their ways by laying off the grog and treating their partners and children properly, then I don't think talking to the suits in Canberra will have much effect

Yes the elders, they get a lot expected of them, yet the aboriginal kids aren't much different rom the white kids the last thing they want to listen to is some old uncool fossil.
40 years ago maybe, 2023 nah.

 

[Smurf1976]

Rump its current reality I met many up here that have little english they still speak original Australian in western society it takes generations to get change and there is an expectation to move from 60,000 years of deep connection of country to living western life style in one or two?

I'll pose a question:

What disadvantage does an Aboriginal person living in any state capital city or a large regional town face that is due to race and which would not be a disadvantage for someone of a different race?

I'll stand corrected if someone can demonstrate otherwise but my observation is that those with genuine disadvantage fall into the basic categories of:

Physical or intellectual disability.

Location.

Lack of education especially basic literacy.

Lack of capital. This one meaning not just money, thought that's one form of capital, but anything of that nature. It's hard to make friends if you have no friends. It's hard to get a job if you have no work history. It's hard to rent a house if you have no rental history. Banks won't lend you money if you've no credit history. Beyond a certain age, dating would be extremely difficult for someone with no prior experience. Etc. Lack of a past becomes a barrier to the future in many ways.

None of those are specifically about race however.

 

[IFocus]

I'll pose a question:

What disadvantage does an Aboriginal person living in any state capital city or a large regional town face that is due to race and which would not be a disadvantage for someone of a different race?

I'll stand corrected if someone can demonstrate otherwise but my observation is that those with genuine disadvantage fall into the basic categories of:

Physical or intellectual disability.

Location.

Lack of education especially basic literacy.

Lack of capital. This one meaning not just money, thought that's one form of capital, but anything of that nature. It's hard to make friends if you have no friends. It's hard to get a job if you have no work history. It's hard to rent a house if you have no rental history. Banks won't lend you money if you've no credit history. Beyond a certain age, dating would be extremely difficult for someone with no prior experience. Etc. Lack of a past becomes a barrier to the future in many ways.

None of those are specifically about race however.

Smurf not being a smart ar$e but explain the gap report.

 

[SirRumpole]

Smurf not being a smart ar$e but explain the gap report.

I haven't read it but does it explain the reasons for the gaps or just point out their existence ?

Eg life expectancy. Does it take into account alcohol/drug/tobacco abuse ? These things are personal life style choices and would be the same for people of any race with those habits.

 

[SirRumpole]

Yes the elders, they get a lot expected of them, yet the aboriginal kids aren't much different rom the white kids the last thing they want to listen to is some old uncool fossil.
40 years ago maybe, 2023 nah.

Talk to the parents first and tell them to look after the kids and stop beating up the missus.

 

[Smurf1976]

Smurf not being a smart ar$e but explain the gap report.

My perception is a lot of that comes down to the lack of education and lack of capital problem I've described along with some simply being "stuck in a rut".

If they were going through school to Year 12 level and pursuing reasonably normal (by Western standards) paths beyond that then I very much doubt we'd have anywhere near the extent of the gap we have today.

Those I've encountered who've done that, who've got an education and some sort of career and are living in cities or major towns, just don't seem to be having all this trouble. Employers aren't refusing to employ them, supermarkets aren't refusing to serve them, real estate agents and banks have no issues, and so on.

The "traditional way of life" is the problem here. That there's a gap between Aboriginal and other Australians is at least substantially because no other group would even contemplate their own "traditional way of life" as something they'd do today.