The Voice

[JohnDe]

Voice required to address deep Indigenous 'cynicism'

Indigenous expert Marcia Langton has told the joint select committee inquiring into the voice that the advisory body must be enshrined into the constitution to address a deep level of “cynicism and pessimism” in remote communities following the failures of previous governments.

Professor Langton said there was a “great frustration” among Indigenous people that previous governments have failed to listen to their concerns, and argued all levels of governments needed to rebuild trust with Aboriginal people.

“There is an enormous level of cynicism and pessimism in our communities because of the failures of governments to address urgent problems…housing came up repeatedly, as did the incarceration of adults and youth, removal of children from communities,” Professor Langton said.
“I overwhelmingly got the impression that all levels of governments needed to rebuild their trust for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people…there is a complete lack of trust with governments to do anything right.

"We went into communities where the situation was so dire and the feelings that people have that governments have failed them is evident."

Co-chair of Indigenous voice to parliament co-design group Tom Calma said a constitutionally enshrined body would give it protections against future governments who may seek to dismantle its power.

“If the government of the day doesn’t want to play ball then it's up to the other politicians of the day to hold them to account,” he said.

Constitutional expert gives legal tick to Indigenous voice in parliamentary submission
Voice will not result in obligations on the executive or parliament, Anne Twomey says in submissions to inquiry

One of the nation’s top constitutional experts has reiterated to a parliamentary inquiry that the Indigenous voice to parliament won’t slow down government decision making or clog up the courts.

Conservative critics have raised fears the voice could spur ongoing court challenges, but Prof Anne Twomey once again dismissed those concerns in a submission to the parliamentary inquiry probing the referendum.

“There is no obligation upon parliament or the executive government to respond to the representations [from the voice] or give effect to them,” Twomey wrote in a submission to the inquiry ahead of the committee’s first hearing in Canberra on Friday. “There is no obligation of prior consultation. There is no requirement to wait to receive a representation before the executive government of parliament can act.”

Witnesses for the first hearing of the joint select committee on the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice Referendum include Tom Calma and Marcia Langton, the Indigenous leaders who chaired a co-design process for the voice under the former Coalition government.

Pro-voice campaigners Thomas Mayo, former ABC host Kerry O’Brien and lawyers Louise Clegg and Douglas Drummond KC, who have expressed concerns about the voice, will also be witnesses.

Twomey will form part of a panel of leading constitutional lawyers appearing before the committee who have all either spoken strongly in favour of the voice or rebuffed concerns about the legal effect of its representations.

The committee chair, Labor senator Nita Green, said the committee was not tasked with weighing up the yes or no case. Instead, it would consider the voice’s legal ramifications.

“We’re not making a decision about the broader referendum,” she said. “That’s a decision the Australian people will make, not politicians.”

Green said she hoped Coalition members of the committee would work to “change their party’s position” on the voice through the course of the inquiry.

Hearings will be held in Orange, Cairns and Perth, to gather views from Indigenous communities and those involved in the processes that led to the voice proposal.

Father Frank Brennan, a supporter of the voice who has raised concerns about the voice advising the executive branch of government, suggested in his submission changing the words “executive government” to “ministers of state”. Brennan claimed that there could be a requirement for the voice to be given notice of pending administrative decisions – and a requirement for its representations to be entertained.

“The voice would need to know what is going on in public service offices,” he claimed.

'The Voice alone isn't enough'

Taylah Gray is a Wiradjuri woman and the first Aboriginal woman to undertake a PhD in law at the University of Newcastle.

In her fourth year of law, a lecturer told her: "First Nations people were supreme negotiators.

"We've had these practices since time immemorial," she says, having learned that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are highly experienced and skilled in mediation and dispute resolution.

"So, one of the downfalls with the Voice is that there are opposing opinions in First Nations communities – and they haven't been addressed."
Ms Gray says all First Nations people should be able to have their say and have their concerns adequately accounted for before the referendum.

Ms Gray also believes that while "the Voice alone isn't enough", it does have power to influence the government and breathe life into the treaty process.

"If we want to have a treaty, we need to have structures in place to talk to parliament and hear First Nations people," she explains.

"How do we create a treaty when we don't have that process in place?"

Ms Gray hasn't decided how she'll vote – yet – but she wants all First Nations people to know that it's ok to vote yes or no.

"I'm leaning on my mentors and the people I trust," she says, "and I advise people to do the same."

"People need to come to an independent decision, but they can lean on people who have their best interest at heart."

 

[IFocus]

That is one of the most arrogant, racist stupid statements I have ever read in ASF.
Mick

Thanks for that Mick.

Obviously my comments are inflammatory and over the top similar to others who do so frequently.

Price is an elected federal politician who recites political white conservative talking points most weeks which is absolutely her right as is its my right to criticise her for doing it.

I do understand Prices anger given her horrendous and terrible experience of domestic violence but solutions require nuance and understanding beyond calls for policing and telling people to take responsibility as expressed by other commenters here.

After what, 10, 20, 30 or more years has achieved little.

I note that earlier in this thread a leading and experienced journalist / academic not in any way connected politically both state or federal and has remained away from indigenous politics (this is public knowledge) was denigrated for the colour of his skin, was it too white or too black? Then there was the question of the percentage of his Aboriginality etc.
Degraded not what he said but for how he looked.

Question is where was your outrage?

Cheers

 

[IFocus]

Here an example of Price being a politician backing Dutton.

"Next to Celtic-Warlpiri senator Jacinta Nampinjimpa Price in Alice Springs, Dutton declared once again that sexual abuse of Indigenous children in the region is rampant, making shocking claims that children are being returned to their abusers.

When asked to produce evidence backing his claims, he either wouldn't or couldn't.

When asked if he had spoken to Lhere Artepe Aboriginal Corporation, he said instead that he had spoken with businesses and shoppers in shopping centres."


SNAICC chief executive Catherine Liddle is an Arrente woman who has lived most of her life in Alice Springs.

She says she is "beyond frustrated" with the way Peter Dutton is inserting himself into a complex issue.

"Sexual abuse is a really serious crime which has a devastating impact on children and families and communities.

"This is not a political football. It should not be politicised like this for point scoring.

"What we definitively have not seen in the evidence and the data is an increase in child abuse or, in particular, in child sexual abuse. It is not reflected in any of the data sets," Liddle said.

Time and again, politicians across the spectrum prove they cannot speak accurately on behalf of Indigenous communities.

 

[SirRumpole]

Whether it's playing politics or not, the rates of child abuse in the NT is 5 times higher than any other State.

Child abuse in NT almost five times higher than any other Australian jurisdiction

Child abuse and neglect is being reported to authorities in the Northern Territory at almost five times the rate of any other Australian jurisdiction.

www.skynews.com.au

Is the government to blame or should we blame the abusers ?

Do people need to be told that child abuse is wrong, or is it a 'cultural' thing that should be swept under the carpet ?

 

[rederob]

Whether it's playing politics or not, the rates of child abuse in the NT is 5 times higher than any other State.

What about the "representation" that is supposed to ensure these things should not be so bad!
Did it occur to you that the political system has failed on this matter?

Is the government to blame or should we blame the abusers ?

This thread is about a mechanism that has a chance to change the situation, and all you can do is think about blame.

Do people need to be told that child abuse is wrong, or is it a 'cultural' thing that should be swept under the carpet ?

No, people need to think about a solution.
It should have occurred to most people that the problem is not one that the pollies are wanting to address, and that's why there is a Voice being proposed.

 

[SirRumpole]

What about the "representation" that is supposed to ensure these things should not be so bad!
Did it occur to you that the political system has failed on this matter?

This thread is about a mechanism that has a chance to change the situation, and all you can do is think about blame.

No, people need to think about a solution.
It should have occurred to most people that the problem is not one that the pollies are wanting to address, and that's why there is a Voice being proposed.

The Voice needs to speak to the Aboriginal people in this case, not the government.

 

[rederob]

The Voice needs to speak to the Aboriginal people in this case, not the government.

I see you avoided the obvious implications of your post.
Anyway, what good is speaking to people given this has been happening for over 200 years?

Your comments are text book examples of avoidance. For example:

The fact is, that in wider society, child abusers are locked away for a long time. It's called a deterrent.

Isn't the fact here that the levels are 5 times higher and nothing is being done to remedy it?
And in case you didn't know, ATSI peoples have the highest rate of incarceration in the world. So where is this deterrent effect?
I keep saying you are clueless, so thank you for your supportive comments.

 

[SirRumpole]

Isn't the fact here that the levels are 5 times higher and nothing is being done to remedy it?

Because ATSI people have conned society that taking children at risk away from the risk is racist and a repeat of Stolen Generations therefore the kids remain at risk.

So yes do something about it, arrest all the pedophiles in remote settlements and put them out of reach of children and the situation will improve.

 

[Sean K]

Here an example of Price being a politician backing Dutton.

"Next to Celtic-Warlpiri senator Jacinta Nampinjimpa Price in Alice Springs, Dutton declared once again that sexual abuse of Indigenous children in the region is rampant, making shocking claims that children are being returned to their abusers.

When asked to produce evidence backing his claims, he either wouldn't or couldn't.

When asked if he had spoken to Lhere Artepe Aboriginal Corporation, he said instead that he had spoken with businesses and shoppers in shopping centres."


SNAICC chief executive Catherine Liddle is an Arrente woman who has lived most of her life in Alice Springs.

She says she is "beyond frustrated" with the way Peter Dutton is inserting himself into a complex issue.

"Sexual abuse is a really serious crime which has a devastating impact on children and families and communities.

"This is not a political football. It should not be politicised like this for point scoring.

"What we definitively have not seen in the evidence and the data is an increase in child abuse or, in particular, in child sexual abuse. It is not reflected in any of the data sets," Liddle said.

Time and again, politicians across the spectrum prove they cannot speak accurately on behalf of Indigenous communities.

Liddle was careful in using the phrase 'increase in child abuse'. This may be the case, but the studies that have been done clearly show Aboriginal children are abused at a significantly higher rate than whites in the NT. She's dodging the issue and not admitting that her work has failed dismally.

 

[DaveTrade]

So yes do something about it, arrest all the pedophiles in remote settlements and put them out of reach of children and the situation will improve.

A pedophile is a pedophile no matter what skin colour or race, but in this case there are social issues in these communities that contribute to pedophiliar, it's never simple is it. @rederob some of your comments are sounding like you are attacking, this is not the best way to get people to see your point of view.

 

[SirRumpole]

A pedophile is a pedophile no matter what skin colour or race, but in this case there are social issues in these communities that contribute to pedophiliar, it's never simple is it. @rederob some of your comments are sounding like you are attacking, this is not the best way to get people to see your point of view.

So what would these social issues be ?

 

[DaveTrade]

So what would these social issues be ?

I'm not qualified to identify these problems, I just understand that if a particular community has a much larger number of problems than other communities, then these problems should be looked at from all angles to find out why. I don't think that a one size fits all idea would be the most effective way to go, therefore I like the idea of the local and regional approach. I think that each community should be looked at individually. Sure solutions found for one community could be used for other communities that are experiencing similar problems.

 

[Macquack]

What about the "representation" that is supposed to ensure these things should not be so bad!
Did it occur to you that the political system has failed on this matter?

This thread is about a mechanism that has a chance to change the situation, and all you can do is think about blame.

No, people need to think about a solution.
It should have occurred to most people that the problem is not one that the pollies are wanting to address, and that's why there is a Voice being proposed.

That is why I am going to vote Yes. I am sick of hearing about the indigenous Australians plight, when I have had no input into their position.

I think voting Yes will put the ball back into the indigenous Australians court, and they can take some ownership of their own problems.

 

[rederob]

Because ATSI people have conned society that taking children at risk away from the risk is racist and a repeat of Stolen Generations therefore the kids remain at risk.

You clearly never read the Stolen Children report.
As I keep saying, your comments border on clueless.

So yes do something about it, arrest all the pedophiles in remote settlements and put them out of reach of children and the situation will improve.

You again show your ignorance of the facts. At what point will you use reliable sources for your ideas?

"What we definitively have not seen in the evidence and the data is an increase in child abuse or, in particular, in child sexual abuse. It is not reflected in any of the data sets."​

@rederob some of your comments are sounding like you are attacking, this is not the best way to get people to see your point of view.

I am attacking the ignorance and outright lies and disinformation posted by some here.
I have not really given my point of view as my comments are largely derived from the Uluru Statement from the Heart and the hundreds of pages that support the Voice.
If people want to vote based on wilful ignorance, that's their right.

 

[SirRumpole]

I'm not qualified to identify these problems, I just understand that if a particular community has a much larger number of problems than other communities, then these problems should be looked at from all angles to find out why. I don't think that a one size fits all idea would be the most effective way to go, therefore I like the idea of the local and regional approach. I think that each community should be looked at individually. Sure solutions found for one community could be used for other communities that are experiencing similar problems.

You clearly never read the Stolen Children report.
As I keep saying, your comments border on clueless.

You again show your ignorance of the facts. At what point will you use reliable sources for your ideas?

"What we definitively have not seen in the evidence and the data is an increase in child abuse or, in particular, in child sexual abuse. It is not reflected in any of the data sets."​

I am attacking the ignorance and outright lies and disinformation posted by some here.
I have not really given my point of view as my comments are largely derived from the Uluru Statement from the Heart and the hundreds of pages that support the Voice.
If people want to vote based on wilful ignorance, that's their right.

Well it's been pointed out to you that an increase in child abuse rates is not the same as an already existing rate 5 times the national average.

Do you understand basic maths ?

Stop your disingenuous deflections and concentrate on the real issues.

Clueless indeed.

 

[SirRumpole]

Rederob : "You clearly haven't read The Stolen Generations Report"

Give it a rest. If you can't enunciate your own arguments you are not worth listening to.

 

[rederob]

Well it's been pointed out to you that an increase in child abuse rates is not the same as an already existing rate 5 times the national average.

Your point was about paedophiles, and the psychological norm is for rates to be proportionately similar across cultures.
If your claims that "representation" is already in place through the existing system, why has it consistently failed ATSI people?

Do you understand basic maths ?

Ye, I realise the extent of white policies having failed ATSI peoples.

Stop your disingenuous deflections and concentrate on the real issues.

In fact I have responded every time and pointed out the rationale for the Voice.
You are into a blame game and have a delusional belief that locking everyone up solves problems. If that was the case then why are ATSI peoples amongst the most incarcerated in the world, while the problems remain? There is an obvious contradiction.

 

[SirRumpole]

why are ATSI peoples amongst the most incarcerated in the world, while the problems remain? Th

Maybe because they commit more crimes ?

 

[rederob]

Maybe because they commit more crimes ?

More blame and zero comprehension!

 

[SirRumpole]

More blame and zero comprehension!

More insults and zero argument !